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The Sins of the Fathers [Also in Polish] - Comments

Degsy's Avatar Comment 1 by Degsy

I bought the Telegraph last sunday as it was the only only broadsheet left in the shop that evening. I was pretty disappointed I have to say.

This guy Adam Lusher sounds like an ignorant nut and I will be doing my upmost to avoid anything he writes in the future.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:08:53 UTC | #919183

ev-love's Avatar Comment 2 by ev-love

Are there no depths these people will sink to?


Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:13:33 UTC | #919185

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 3 by Premiseless

What he is doing is trying to make mud stick. Religions have so much of this it is hard to quantify. It's as well he hasn't a group agenda to corral you into losing income potentials and then isolating you into auctioning it off at a loss just to pay your debts. I know this only too well.

Remember, the religious think they are entitled to ALL real estate since it belongs to their god of the gaps. None god thinkers, they think, deserve the rights to lose, lose!

This sounds like a direct volley of threats to me.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:19:44 UTC | #919186

78rpm's Avatar Comment 4 by 78rpm

           You cannot hope to bribe or twist,
           thank God! the British journalist. 
           But, seeing what the man will do 
                      Unbribed, there's no occasion to

    Humbert Wolfe

Of course this applies to journalists the world over.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:25:06 UTC | #919187

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 5 by drumdaddy

Richard, they cannot refute your logic so they will hack at your good name. Ad hominem attacks are nothing new to us as they are staples of modern 'journalism'. Pick worthy battles, don't stoop to conquer, and always remember that you wouldn't worry about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:27:02 UTC | #919189

bubbub's Avatar Comment 6 by bubbub

Same old playing the man not the ball to please religious conservatives, or in this case, playing the great great great great great grandfather!

When will these Dawkinsophobic attacks stop? Don't they know that Richard Dawkins means peace in olde English?

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:29:29 UTC | #919190

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 7 by Mr DArcy

Judging by the comments on the Telegraph's blogs re Baronness Warsi and Steven Bayley, which were largely hostile to both, the editor of the Sunday Telegraph might just allow something favourable to be said about Richard.

I'm so fed up with dishonest Christians claiming the credit for abolishing slavery. In Jamaica, William Wilberforce is hardly known. The slaves themselves rebelled and generally made things difficult for the owners. Slavery became too expensive to run. Far better for the owners to have wage slaves instead. They have to look after themselves. The Bishop of Rochester made the claim that Christianity had abolished the slave trade, the other night on News Night with Richard present. What they conveniently forget is all the opposition from other Christians to Wilberforce's movement. The CoE versus the Clapham Sect! They also conveniently forget the 1000 plus years whereby the church actively condoned slavery. They cherry pick the Bible and they cherry pick history too!

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:29:57 UTC | #919191

Mr Blue Sky's Avatar Comment 8 by Mr Blue Sky

Oh Richard! I am sorry that you have to endure the nonsense that you usually fend off so expertly but when oppononents sink to low levels and to irrelevant matters by way of constructing an obvious ad hominem attack we are not impressed. I am thrilled to have shaken your hand at Oxford and will continue to promote RDFRS at every opportunity.

You have overwhelming support out here in the real world. I am sure that you can relegate this latest insult back to the gutter it escaped from.

Kindest regards for the charity you have shown to date, the charity that you so brilliantly founded and the charitable way that you allow faith contolled lesser mortals to bait you without resorting to anything stronger than your piercing arguments, wit and patient rebuttals.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:32:29 UTC | #919193

Galactor's Avatar Comment 9 by Galactor

Try securing a place on Andrew Marr's morning program on Sunday. You'll be able to rubbish them back whilst pointing out that we're not a Christian nation unless it's reasonable to point out that we can't count muslims as christians if they have a christian name.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:35:10 UTC | #919194

mmurray's Avatar Comment 10 by mmurray

I wonder if he has ever asked the Queen about that Henry VIIIth guy she is related to ?


Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:38:18 UTC | #919195

lol mahmood's Avatar Comment 11 by lol mahmood

In my direct lineage, on my father's side, my late grandfather was an Iraqi military leader who was reputed to have beaten at least one soldier to death with a knout on the parade square for being poorly turned out. Perhaps I should seek out the victim's family and share some of my mounting debt with them.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:39:22 UTC | #919196

Bipedal Primate's Avatar Comment 12 by Bipedal Primate

What a ridiculous piece of "guilt by association"-tactics. Utterly deplorable and not worthy of much else than a shaking of the head.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:43:01 UTC | #919197

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 13 by Premiseless

A new bill sometimes provokes a backlash!

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:45:42 UTC | #919198

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 14 by Stafford Gordon

At least this chap didn't link Hitler with Darwin, as some people who should, and quite easily could, know better do, by misunderstanding the difference between genetics and eugenics.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:47:02 UTC | #919199

Mrkimbo's Avatar Comment 15 by Mrkimbo

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. This is not the gutter press but something far lower - the sewer press. The ignorance! The bile! The bullshit! And the absolute desperation to find something, anything, to distract attention away from the fact that on religion Richard Dawkins is demonstrably right, right, right. I am amazed by your patience, Richard - I am still proud of my response to the last bunch of religious nuts I had contact with - Jehova's Witnesses. I had a headache, the phone was ringing, the baby was crying and I opened the door, saw the suits and roared "NO CHANCE! PISS OFF! They went, at some speed.

I warmly recommend this method to you, Richard. Let's face it, they're only going to print a lot of slander, snarl and smear anyway.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:47:35 UTC | #919200

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 16 by aquilacane

“We’ve been researching the history of the Dawkins family, and have discovered that your ancestors owned slaves in Jamaica in the seventeenth and eighteenth century. What have you got to say about that?”

"I know, I know. I've asked them repeatedly to stop and still the history of my ancestors remains the same. It appears I have absolutely no bearing on what came before me. I must tell you, that reality outrages me. Maybe you can tell me why my dead ancestors won't listen to me? They have been left out of my will, I assure you. We no longer speak to those dead people."

I would end it with a sweet "fuck off".

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:00:21 UTC | #919203

Quine's Avatar Comment 17 by Quine

Oh dear. Well, a great many of us are descendants of people enslaved by the Romans, so maybe we should go after the Italians for that.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:01:30 UTC | #919204

nottaken's Avatar Comment 18 by nottaken

Many of the posts on this website are extremely learned, and I gain a great deal from reading them. Sadly I am not any kind of expert who can contribute academically but I have become impelled over the last week to 'register' in order to say how much I admire those putting themselves into the public forum of the media regarding atheism/secularism - namely Richard and Paula Kirby. Your calmness, politeness and ability to make your points are marvellous.

I agree with another thread on this site in which someone says how sorry she feels for Richard when disgusting vitriol is thrown his way and that he must get very, very tired sometimes. Even The Now Show on Radio 4 this week had a section which included being abusive about Richard. And then today there is this - the article above.

Maybe you enjoy the sparring, Richard, but these types of attack make me upset and angry and would certainly bring me down. I wish you and all those out there who are prepared to make a stand over the current issues great strength and the continuing energy to counter the waves of unreason.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:02:13 UTC | #919205

rationalmind's Avatar Comment 19 by rationalmind

I think we can see why the UK press is subject to such investigation at the moment. Check your phone isn't being hacked Richard! :-)

Seriously though, this is a deplorable tactic. As was pointed out some years ago on the old forum your ancestry can be traced back to early kings of England. So can Charles Darwin's and unfortunately George W. Bush's too. It is just that in your case records exist. As you are fond of saying all life on earth is a cousin some how.

The one consolation is that the survey has obviously got them rattled and they are looking for anything with which to attack you. It means you are doing a good job.

You have nothing to be ashamed about. Your descendants will be able to point to you with real pride.

Sometimes the Daily Telegraph puts stuff on the web early. I have had trouble with them breaking an embargo like that! I don't know if it applies to the Sunday paper too. So look out everyone.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:05:18 UTC | #919206

pmunoz's Avatar Comment 20 by pmunoz

why discussing such stupid things with, I dont know if retard or crazy (sometimes is difficult to know). I guess and hope that this article was because of the telegraph not the stupid arguments.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:08:26 UTC | #919207

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 21 by Bernard Hurley

If you look here: you will discover that Adam Lusher claims to have no experience, no education and won no awards. He seems to be able to get some things right. Oh, and he isn't too sure what his email address is either.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:09:13 UTC | #919208

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 22 by AtheistEgbert

There is no single newspaper that has any of my respect. It's about time atheists, sceptics, humanists set up their own newspaper or news organization free of corruption, where reason and facts come first, and emotion and gossip come last. Make Nick Cohen the editor.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:14:24 UTC | #919213

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 23 by Alan4discussion

The "Gentlemen of the Press" have been competed to extinction by the common news-hounds!

Perhaps they would like to research my (Viking) ancestors who also owned slaves, and had more direct methods of cutting insulting Xtians down to size!

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:17:51 UTC | #919215

Daryl 's Avatar Comment 24 by Daryl

Comment 22 by AtheistEgbert :

There is no single newspaper that has any of my respect. It's about time atheists, sceptics, humanists set up their own newspaper or news organization free of corruption, where reason and facts come first, and emotion and gossip come last. Make Nick Cohen the editor.

That will never happen. It takes a certain kind of almost superstitious fear to carry on the Fox "News" tradition of never ending garbage. A rational person is, almost by definition, someone willing the let the little things go to deal with the big picture. Hate and anger take an almost active act of ignorance. Intelligence simply is. Think about it. Who was for ages the big standard bearer of the so called liberal elite in media in the US? Walter Cronkite. Who is the right wing been propping up? Rush, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. Case closed.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:19:42 UTC | #919216

Ivan The Not So Bad's Avatar Comment 25 by Ivan The Not So Bad

No-one by the name of Adam on the list of Telegraph journalists.

Could be a freelancer. Or someone on the run from the local asylum.

Some advice for anyone dealing with this sort of stuff:

a) always get the name of the journalist, their contact details and the publication he/she claims to represent;

b) establish the exact purpose of the conversation and the context in which any information will be used (including an outline of the article, the intended date of publication and who else has been approached);

c) establish the exact terms on which you are speaking ie on the record (you can be quoted directly), non-attributable (you can be quoted but not by name eg. "sources close to X said"), for background information only (you are educating not commenting publicly);

d) if it's someone you don't know and trust assume you are on the record;

e) remember that mixing terms within the same briefing usually goes wrong as neither side ever has the same memory over which bits were on the record or not;

f) take contemporaneous notes;

g) agree at the end what has been said and on what terms; and

h) if you are at all unhappy with the conduct of the interview, ring back and speak to the editor.

Finally, keep this handy.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:23:59 UTC | #919217

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 26 by aroundtown

Certainly exposes the underbelly of the supposed journalistic integrity of reporters. In their fervor to support their own agenda the one sided aspirations of some journalistic corporations conveniently ignore the bias within themselves. Since Richard utilized a bible reference I can provide something similar as well and it goes something along the lines of focusing on the stick in my eye while avoiding the plank in your own as to complicity. We as a species are "fallible" but the one sided views of those infected by religion conveniently ignore the scientific community which possess an ability they lack. We, the scientific minded, can examine and change our views biased on the evidence but the religious minded are generally chained to dogma that provides no proof to support their claims so they become frustrated and seek to assign guilt by association. Truly pathetic and despicable behavior that is all to common today I'm afraid.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:25:06 UTC | #919218

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 27 by Bernard Hurley

I've got Viking rape-and-pillage genes and Irish horse-thief genes but the ones that really bother me are those damned apple-eater genes.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:26:05 UTC | #919220

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 28 by Bernard Hurley

Comment 25 by Ivan The Not So Bad :

No-one by the name of Adam on the list of Telegraph journalists.

Could be a freelancer. Or someone on the run from the local asylum.

He has published five articles in the Telegraph so far this year. Links to them are here:

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:30:13 UTC | #919221

ShinobiYaka's Avatar Comment 29 by ShinobiYaka

Could have been worse Richard, he might have chanced on a Bishop or Cardinal lurking in the family closet.

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:36:09 UTC | #919223

gloves71's Avatar Comment 30 by gloves71

I think it's actually Adam Lusher

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:47:11 UTC | #919225