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← BBC RADIO 4 PHONE IN THIS MORNING: IS RELIGION IN THE UK BEING ERODED?

BBC RADIO 4 PHONE IN THIS MORNING: IS RELIGION IN THE UK BEING ERODED? - Comments

MadEd's Avatar Comment 1 by MadEd

Whatever hostile, shouty idiots are rolled out against us let's keep it nice.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:23:40 UTC | #920292

Michael Gray's Avatar Comment 2 by Michael Gray

"IS RELIGION IN THE UK BEING ERODED?"

I bloody-well hope so!

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:58:47 UTC | #920304

SelfishGene's Avatar Comment 3 by SelfishGene

We need to present questions, got mine in already and is is quite 'nice' MadEd.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:06:11 UTC | #920308

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 4 by Richard Dawkins

If you phone in (or send in an e-mail), please consider mentioning the poll commissioned by RDFRS UK. There's every indication that we really rattled them by publishing it last week, coincidentally on the very same day as Baroness Warsi's speech to the Vatican, which would account for the mud-slinging storm of vilification that followed (see Matt Ridley's excellent article here). The facts of our survey won't go away, they don't like them, and they are doing their best to distract attention by irrelevant digressions and even outright smears. Let's keep up the pressure. Don't let them change the subject. Religion in the UK is on the skids. Obviously anyone is welcome to hold whatever daft beliefs they like, but those beliefs should not be immune to criticism and they should not have privileged access to government.

Richard

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:09:48 UTC | #920309

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 5 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

...is religion's place in Britain being eroded? If it is, Call You and Yours asks if that is a good or bad thing?

I guess it you're a strident, arrogant, aggressive, puffed-up, intolerant, militant, shrill piece of work like Warsi, it is a bad thing. But then that's a good thing.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:16:23 UTC | #920312

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 6 by AtheistEgbert

Some things we ought to consider: while religion may be on the decline, is rationality on the rise? And is this reversing trend permanent? We may have dealt a blow to the strange logic of justifying imposing religion on everyone because of a majority, but the British state still does not have a constitution protecting separation of church and state.

I would say that America is experiencing the same trend, however this does not stop politicians from their illiberal indulgence in using religion to gain votes. This is damaging to democracy because democracy rests on the idea that individuals make decisions based on reason.

That is why it is far far more important that reason and critical thinking are on the rise, not only that religion is in decline.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:28:25 UTC | #920324

the prisoner's Avatar Comment 7 by the prisoner

I think the coming of the telly was the start of the end for religion in the UK wasn't it..?

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:32:06 UTC | #920325

whenpigsfly's Avatar Comment 8 by whenpigsfly

Just sent the following comment:

"The recent poll commissioned by RDFRS UK has shown clearly that religion in the UK is in decline.

The decline has happened because religion is less and less relevant; politicians can no longer ignore these facts though they may try. The non-relevance of the tenets of religion is the cause of its own erosion.

Using the term "being eroded" implies that there is some particular group of people that are responsible for its decline.

In the event that some groups encourage people to think about the subject of religion it is not erosion but a consciousness-raising activity.

We would do well to be rid of the terrible faith-based discrimination that still persists in this country (e.g. NHS chaplains, bishops in the house of lords & faith schools) and I hope to see it in my lifetime."

Little short of time today else I might have called!

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:37:44 UTC | #920327

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 9 by strangebrew

"IS RELIGION IN THE UK BEING ERODED?"

Bloody well falling apart at the seams mainly.

When the head honcho of the 'Anglican religion' i.e the official and adhered faith of the law and government and subjects of the UK and its territories around the globe,(what is left of them), thinks it is a damn fair and righteous ambition to see Islamic sharia law practised and presumably enforced on the streets of Burnley... Manchester... Birmingham... London etc etc...then that religion has collapsed in morality and authority and has retreated in rout and confusion as to what and to whom it is supposed to be relevant to...it has affectively abandoned the people it boasts it provides pastoral care for.

It is lost and plainly has no vision or leadership...it is just a hollow husk of pomposity and crass bigotry...nothing more...and a great deal less then the sum of its parts.

It is a mickey mouse club with men posing in dresses...nothing more.

It has absolutely no business to be regarded anywhere in the UK as anything other then a crackpot society inhabited and supported by crackpots...simple like so!

That one stupendously repugnant suggestion, amongst so many other such nonsenses, is the last nail in the coffin of respect and duty to such a pallid and lacklustre cult.

Erosion?...nope!...complete utter total and inevitable self-annihilation...and there was I thinking that in their own dogma, suicide was a sin of the devil?

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:40:15 UTC | #920330

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 10 by AtheistEgbert

The British Attitudes surveys over the last thirty years have shown a gradual decline from something like 90% to 50% today. However I just can't get my hands on the data any more, it's too difficult to get it.

We can only speculate the reasons for this thirty year decline, but there is no significant event or reason I can think of that can explain it rationally. What appears to be going on is that each new generation are less religious than the previous.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:48:11 UTC | #920331

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 11 by SaganTheCat

of course it is!

the current generation of brits grew up in a society that has ensured good education. they grew up with TV and more recently internet access and regardless of how much we take on or otherwise of religious teachings, the fact is no longer do UK residents grow up believing that there is religion (i.e. our religion) or savages.

whoever you are in the UK you are now aware that for every belief there is an alternative and considering those no longer gets you executed.

the fact is, religion started to erode as soon as its leaders stopped torturing people and we're now at the tail end where most people simply don't believe or have any desire to believe in old folk tales other than in the context of all the other folk tales there are out there. now we have a minority of residents with religion, holed up in privileged positions such as the house of lords and government funded temples who have suddenly become aware of their own irrelevance and are turning all their energy into reviving their old persecution stories, calling in political favours and making as much noise in the press as they can. The proof of this is there for all to see in the constant ad-hominem attacks on individuals like Richard while avoiding genuine debate over differences between religious belief and secular law.

Religion in the UK is like the elderly relative no one really likes but has to invite over at Christmas and put up with its constant complaining and judging others and their lifestyles. We’ve put up with them because they’re old and stuck in their ways and maybe we’ll have fond memories when they’re gone but only because they’ll be gone and the savings they’ve stuffed into their mattresses can be distributed evenly among those who’ve been supporting them all this time with no thanks.

We're very fond of this old relative but can't wait for it to die

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:05:39 UTC | #920334

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 12 by strangebrew

Comment 10 by AtheistEgbert

What appears to be going on is that each new generation are less religious than the previous.

Absolutely...and the prime reason for the 'faith' based school initiative. It might have well been a Jesuit that claimed "Give me the child and I will give you the man"

But every major religion is well aware that to get the adherents sitting up and barking the indoctrination and the continuance of contributing loot when they are able,has to begin well before certain faculties can parse the attempt as being brain washing by bullshite.

Gove and Blair were and are soaked in the mumbo jumbo...they were also unfortunately in a position to advance that same mumbo jumbo through political policy...awareness of where to find victims for the cause is not rocket science...get the kiddies 'prasin' de bhabi jeebus' and you are three quarters of the way there! Creationists are aware of the same trick...and are a little more aggressive about their brain fart in the US then in Blighty...but that is the battleground...if battle it be, and they will not relinquish their last hope of survival of a discredited and irrelevant meme.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:11:41 UTC | #920336

Voluptua's Avatar Comment 13 by Voluptua

"We're very fond of this old relative but can't wait for it to die."

I'm not fond of it,-I think it stinks!

"

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:23:04 UTC | #920338

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 14 by Premiseless

Theologically? Holy spiritedness? Eric Pickles claim, today, to bring this on back to the centre of British life? Open thine eyes to how such superficial language disables reason and crucifies your rights to think for yourself! Let your brain be resurrected from the tomb of religion. Roll away the stone!

Is religion in the UK being eroded?

Equality to think is being liberated, and so the demands of various ancient laws which demand immunity are getting challenged - they call this GOD. GOD is an excuse not to be asked questions! Britain is waking up to this. It's not an erosion of our rights, it IS our humanitarian rights that have been and are being resisted by religion. It wants a free pass to put on the uniform of subversion in whatever faith it disguises itself!

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:40:23 UTC | #920348

John Constantine's Avatar Comment 15 by John Constantine

Richard, well done on your interview on South African radio this morning. I never thought that something like that would ever happen in my lifetime. I was also pleased to hear the enthusiasim of the radio host for having toy on the show. Bit by bit....

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:43:27 UTC | #920349

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 16 by Premiseless

"True secularists would want an inclusive society?" said one interviewee , "We are not Dawkins inc."

Religion is exclusive!

Marry the two.

Religion plays inclusivity but practices exclusivity.

We demand exclusive rights to your genitalia and your hippocampus!

Believe us or our GOD will doom you to somewhere badlier and headachiness than reading a hard book or even University Challenge questions!

True secularists do want inclusivity, which is why we say ditch belief as a serious claim upon ones own thoughts and especially those of others , your own children included. But first society needs to tell it to, "Sod off!" from the public sphere in which it demands the rest of us pay homage to its demands.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:49:28 UTC | #920352

shemonster's Avatar Comment 17 by shemonster

So some agreement that Faith schools if they are Muslim are a bad thing and that Muslims won't intergrate until they are banned. Why can't they make the connection that the way forward is to ban all faith schools?

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:50:57 UTC | #920353

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 18 by SaganTheCat

Comment 13

me too, i'm trying to represent for the "average" briton. they love the history, the old buildings and traditions but in the same way as they love maypole dancing. a link to the past and not a bit of government

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:52:42 UTC | #920354

whenpigsfly's Avatar Comment 19 by whenpigsfly

I applaud the comment from Mr Jennings, a member of a united reformed church, which said that they, as a church, expect no special place in society based purely on fact that they're a church.

I suspect that a lot of Christians up and down the country feel this way and if they feel that they are mis-represented as a result of having ticked the Christian box in the census, they should say so and write to their MP's to dissuade policy that is discriminatory on the basis of faith, from being implemented.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:57:27 UTC | #920355

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 20 by irate_atheist

Ask Eric Pickles if he has sold all he has and given it to the poor. When he says no, call him out for the dunderheaded hypocrite he is.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:01:39 UTC | #920357

whenpigsfly's Avatar Comment 21 by whenpigsfly

Programme will be available here soon...

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:16:39 UTC | #920362

Voluptua's Avatar Comment 22 by Voluptua

It's all this impudent answering-back by the heathens that is harming true faith. Keep at it!

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:23:36 UTC | #920367

Saiph's Avatar Comment 23 by Saiph

Nothing to do with the above but really needed to vent, I work in a professional environment and had a patient bring in his petition to be signed for stopping 'gay marriages' he got two members of staff to sign by basically lying and not showing them what it was about, naively they signed, when one member of staff actually took it off him he reluctantly showed it to her. She brought it to me and I told him politely that I and no one would sign it, the people who signed it who realised what it was scribbled their names out. Is there no depth which these homophobic scum will not plummet for their god, thanks vent over, just wish he had approached me out of work and I could have told him exactly what and where to put his petition.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:53:33 UTC | #920373

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 24 by Alan4discussion

Comment 22 by Voluptua

Quite! - The intelligent educated, do not doff a forelock, when talked down to or patronised by a superstitious ignoramus! (Ooooooh! Those arrogant atheist scientists! - Totally lacking servile humility to bronze-age core-bigotry!)

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:54:12 UTC | #920374

Saiph's Avatar Comment 25 by Saiph

Nothing to do with the above but really needed to vent, I work in a professional environment and had a patient bring in his petition to be signed for stopping 'gay marriages' he got two members of staff to sign by basically lying and not showing them what it was about, naively they signed, when one member of staff actually took it off him he reluctantly showed it to her. She brought it to me and I told him politely that I and no one would sign it, the people who signed it who realised what it was scribbled their names out. Is there no depth which these homophobic scum will not plummet for their god, thanks vent over, just wish he had approached me out of work and I could have told him exactly what and where to put his petition.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:54:19 UTC | #920375

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 26 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

I caught a bit of the programme. NSS President Terry Sanderson did a great job. I'd like to hear and see more of him on radio and TV like this.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:26:09 UTC | #920388

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 27 by AtheistEgbert

Having heard the entire programme, what strikes me as yet another myth or presumption that these debates generate is that somehow the entire western civilization has rested on the bedrock of Judea-Christian values. Worse, that our values, the values that generated a liberal secular society must have originated in Christian values.

It was only recently that our society abolished slavery, became democratic, including the right for women to vote, and the legalization of homosexuality, let's not pretend that our culture has endured thousands of years of loveliness thanks to Christian values.

This ridiculous myth needs to be challenged.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:44:29 UTC | #920390

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 28 by aroundtown

Comment 4 by Richard Dawkins If you phone in (or send in an e-mail), please consider mentioning the poll commissioned by RDFRS UK. There's every indication that we really rattled them by publishing it last week, coincidentally on the very same day as Baroness Warsi's speech to the Vatican, which would account for the mud-slinging storm of vilification that followed (see Matt Ridley's excellent article here). The facts of our survey won't go away, they don't like them, and they are doing their best to distract attention by irrelevant digressions and even outright smears. Let's keep up the pressure. Don't let them change the subject. Religion in the UK is on the skids. Obviously anyone is welcome to hold whatever daft beliefs they like, but those beliefs should not be immune to criticism and they should not have privileged access to government.

Having followed the storm this week certain truths seem to have been exposed by the release of the poll. The religiously persuades are as entrenched, deluded, and obstinate as ever and refuse to hear reasonable objections in any form. Regardless the data speaks clearly and shows a substantial segment of the populace has left the fold. The conclusion to my mind is the religious folk will remain obstinate and combative and seek to slander any proposition that does not match their views so the secular argument seems the most viable to press in the halls of government. Those affected by the blanket delusion of religious dogma in any form will have to accept that other ideologies have merit and deserve inclusion. One faction should not receive special privileges in government at the expense of the whole.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:50:18 UTC | #920391

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 29 by xmaseveeve

Get over it, godbotherers - people are thinking for themselves, and thus religion is being eroded from within, by its own rot. More people are stumbling on websites such as this, and they see a biblical quotation, think nah, surely that can't be in the Bile - the preachers never mention that bit - and behold, the truth and the wonder of Google shall set them free.

All we ask is that you talk about right and wrong without religious dogma. If your faith is so fragile and beautiful to you, don't clench that butterfly in your fist as you bang it on the political table.

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:04:32 UTC | #920396

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 30 by SaganTheCat

Saiph

Nothing to do with the above but really needed to vent

christians lying about their intentions for political ends?

everything to do with the above, thank you for venting

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:13:36 UTC | #920398