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← Vatican told to pay taxes as Italy tackles budget crisis

Vatican told to pay taxes as Italy tackles budget crisis - Comments

AtheistButt's Avatar Comment 1 by AtheistButt

The pocket. That's where it should start to hurt.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:31:27 UTC | #922056

Flapjack's Avatar Comment 2 by Flapjack

About time too, though I'm surprised they didn't pull the old "We're an independent state" routine as a tax dodge.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:37:44 UTC | #922058

Aztek's Avatar Comment 3 by Aztek

What's fair is fair. No one should have a reason to complain.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:47:45 UTC | #922060

kookoolarue's Avatar Comment 4 by kookoolarue

Outstanding.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:50:32 UTC | #922063

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 5 by aquilacane

The only thing that stood out there was:

rumours of plots to kill the Pope

Any updates on these rumours or were they to kill him financially?

Comment 2 by Flapjack

About time too, though I'm surprised they didn't pull the old "We're an independent state" routine as a tax dodge.

If they play the independent state thing I would argue each one of their churches outside of the Vatican could be classified as interfering with the internal affairs of a country. A Catholic Church would be like a mini embassy, we hold votes at those churches but I don't recall ever having a voting booth at the Iranian or Chinese Embassies. If they are a separate state, their churches need to be shut down as they enforce too much foreign influence over local politics. I would then classify Catholics as acting foreign agents for a hostile entity.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:52:28 UTC | #922064

Claimthehighground's Avatar Comment 6 by Claimthehighground

Perhaps instead of the lci tax on property the church could tithe. After all, giving 1/10th of your income is a well established biblical mandate.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:53:37 UTC | #922065

Tony d's Avatar Comment 7 by Tony d

Comment Removed by Author

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:06:06 UTC | #922072

Net's Avatar Comment 8 by Net

funny the vatican itself, seeing the difficulties that italy, or anyone else, is in, didn't make the gesture itself. maybe it will catch on around the world!!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:09:11 UTC | #922073

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 9 by QuestioningKat

Comment 6 by Claimthehighground :

Perhaps instead of the lci tax on property the church could tithe. After all, giving 1/10th of your income is a well established biblical mandate.

Actually, they should do both. They should tithe 10% to social causes like, homelessness, children with health issues, etc. and they should pay taxes.

They are hoping their "social value" will be taken into account. If they want this, they should be required to itemize their contributions so that they are adequately substantiated.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:22:58 UTC | #922076

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 10 by potteryshard

The back interest on two millenia of evaded taxes should pretty neatly end Italy's financial crisis.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:46:16 UTC | #922082

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 11 by MilitantNonStampCollector

If they had any integrity left, they would cough up tens of billions for simply existing as a paedophile enterprise.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:58:20 UTC | #922084

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 12 by Peter Grant

Good, I hope they get audited.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:59:36 UTC | #922085

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 13 by Vorlund

It is called survival of the fittest ratzo! While italy struggles to keep afloat it is hardly surprising that it will resort to starving the fat parasite that sucks out its guts. Pity it doesn't resort to a vermifuge and kill it off altogether.

Hopefully the wage cut will also curb their influence.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:16:54 UTC | #922088

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 14 by aroundtown

I wouldn't get to excited about the prospect until you see the check in the mail. Saying it might happen is hopeful speculation and interested parties should wait for the cash and then celebrate the achievement.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:19:27 UTC | #922089

Tony d's Avatar Comment 15 by Tony d

I think the Italian's should invade the Vatican and nick all the treasure. What are the Catholics gonna do about it . Turn the other cheek.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:30:04 UTC | #922092

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 16 by Philoctetes

Tax should be raised on the basis of income generated. Churches are exempt presumably because they are considered not to be generating any income. If true fair enough, but one would hope that any collections taken are taxed and any renting out of these premises for events, fund raising etc. should similarly be taxed. That would seem fair.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:53:21 UTC | #922095

gordon's Avatar Comment 17 by gordon

Papa, he say no!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:14:57 UTC | #922099

gizmologic1's Avatar Comment 18 by gizmologic1

"Render unto Caesar...", finally.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:16:59 UTC | #922101

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 19 by Mr DArcy

Mr Almunia said in 2010 that the exemption amounted to state aid that might breach EU competition law.

And the RCC does have some competition, what with Islam, 30,000 odd varieties of Protestant Christians, Jews, etc.etc. We wouldn't want them unfairly treated, now would we? All woo should be equal before the law, - unless God intervenes of course!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:46:43 UTC | #922123

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 20 by prettygoodformonkeys

Hooray! Here's hoping it spreads to Canada, and everywhere else.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 19:03:40 UTC | #922150

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 21 by Schrodinger's Cat

The scandal is not so much that the Vatican was not paying taxes....but that nobody was properly checking whether the Vatican was paying taxes as defined by EU law and obfuscated by Berlusconi. To me it is very similar to the Greek debt fiasco. How does a nation get to be 450 billion Euros in debt in the first place ? In both cases.....those turning a blind eye, which is clearly what's gone on, should be sacked.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 19:24:36 UTC | #922157

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 22 by strangebrew

End of the beginning...now for the beginning of the end!

RCC tax payers...that is truly end times for their putrid nonsense!

Next ...'Tax evasion' after 'kiddy fiddling'...if there is a law in front of them they will break it then blame everyone else!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 19:30:12 UTC | #922160

RomeStu's Avatar Comment 23 by RomeStu

Comment 16 by ///////////////////////////////////////// :

Tax should be raised on the basis of income generated. Churches are exempt presumably because they are considered not to be generating any income. If true fair enough, but one would hope that any collections taken are taxed and any renting out of these premises for events, fund raising etc. should similarly be taxed. That would seem fair.

This is exactly the problem. RCC has for many years benefitted in Italy from a well-known loophole in the law that makes churches (in Italian "luoghi di culto") tax free. This loophole meant that any church-owned commercial property (ie residential appartment block for example) needed only to have a small broom cupboard-sized chapel for the whole structure to be classified as "luogo di culto", and therefore avoid all ICI property taxes. When you consider that the RCC is estimated to be the owner of roughly one quarter of central Rome, this is a considerable amount.

The church has been protected by successive governments and now finally someone like Monti has the balls to try this on. I'm no great supporter of his, but if he can pull this off he'll go down in history.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:50:13 UTC | #922187

JTMcDaniel's Avatar Comment 24 by JTMcDaniel

Vatican City is an independent state, and no more subject to Italian taxes than Ulster is to Republic taxes. The writer made a poor choice of words, using "Vatican" where "Roman Catholic Church" was meant, and "Rome" rather than "Italian government." The number of institutions mentioned make it obvious that it was church property everywhere in Italy outside Vatican City that would be taxed. I have to think that the U.S. could also go a long way toward balancing the budget if we started taxing churches, both property taxes and religious corporation income taxes.

Of course, the trade off to eliminating religious tax exemptions would be that clergy could start preaching political sermons again.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:37:41 UTC | #922208

AsylumWarden's Avatar Comment 25 by AsylumWarden

Good start! Mr Cameron, can you please follow suit?!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:43:01 UTC | #922236

RohypGnosis's Avatar Comment 26 by RohypGnosis

Up to 2.2Bn?... and they reckon it's only 100m?... Hmmmh... I may be wrong but I'm sure Big J wasn't quoted as saying "Render unto Caesar a bit less than 5% of that which is Caesar's".

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 01:28:24 UTC | #922295

CdnMacAtheist's Avatar Comment 27 by CdnMacAtheist

More indications that the tide is turning towards more secular governance in modern 'christian' societies, this time for more financial reasons.

I wonder what will be the long-term effects when people of other religions see that there are ways to undermine their systems and authorities and become more humanity-driven rather than faith-driven?

Since Islam fundamentally doesn't make a distinction between religion & government, how will their leaders see this eroding of the authority of their christian 'brothers'. Will this just escalate their hatred of apostasy by us godless heathens?

Peace.

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:27:42 UTC | #922336

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 28 by strangebrew

Comment 26 by RohypGnosis

"Render unto Caesar a bit less than 5% of that which is Caesar's".

Seems to be a firmly proud trait of the religious and the RCC in particular. They pulled the same stunt in Ireland...

Got fined millions in reparations and found a fiver under their collective cassock and were happy enough to 'allow' the Irish tax payer to pick up the slack...after originally' 'blaming' fiscal paperwork issues for the delay...seems those 'issues' are rather easier to overcome then the church whined about...so plan B is....

'Pretending priests were not employed by the church so the church is not responsible!'

To date...as far as I can ascertain... they have seemingly reneged on every single payment in every single diocese affected in Ireland...they were originally fined 107 million..but after the Ryan report it was raised to 179 million because the deviancy, perversion, and viciousness was far sicker then the church reluctantly admitted. May the power of christ compel you indeed!...or is that the power of the coin ecclesiastical?

Slightly off topic now...apologies and all that...

A bunch of jeebus droolers in parliament just whined thusly

What a shock...they really have very little 'faith' in their own stupid delusion do they?

A supernatural sky fairy needing secular law to protect the divine ass and they fail to see the asinine stench of xian irony...fucking piteous clowns?

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:19:54 UTC | #922356

carlmosconi's Avatar Comment 29 by carlmosconi

A step in the right direction.

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:41:59 UTC | #922364

MarkOnTheRiver's Avatar Comment 30 by MarkOnTheRiver

Comment 24 by JTMcDaniel :

I have to think that the U.S. could also go a long way toward balancing the budget if we started taxing churches, both property taxes and religious corporation income taxes.

Of course, the trade off to eliminating religious tax exemptions would be that clergy could start preaching political sermons again.

With American presidential candidates preaching endless religious sermons right now, would we actually notice any difference?

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:25:19 UTC | #922393