This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Why we need college degrees more than we need faith

Why we need college degrees more than we need faith - Comments

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 1 by Neodarwinian

" less higher education and more faith. "

This from an ill educated wackaloon that could not tell one how salt dissolves in water. We could all be knuckle walkers as long as we were indoctrinated in Rickie's favorite delusion. College may not be for everyone and many going there are wasting their time, but the conservation of faith " argument " is just stupid.

Reading your latest book, Professor Krauss. Tough go for a popularization!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:20:36 UTC | #922895

nurnord's Avatar Comment 2 by nurnord

Nice article Lawrence...sadly I fear many simply do not and will continue to not pay any attention to reason and logic.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:24:50 UTC | #922897

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 3 by drumdaddy

The bastards have even got their fingers in the 'higher education' pie. For instance, the late scumbag Jerry Falwell's Liberty University gets $500,000,000 in government aid each year. There are only 12,000 students on campus. They are running a money sucking scam by claiming 50,000 online students. Taxpayers unite!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:28:16 UTC | #922898

Sjoerd Westenborg's Avatar Comment 4 by Sjoerd Westenborg

*Santorum mode on *

Anything that reduces faith is must be invented by Satan and inherently evil. Science can't disprove that.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:32:52 UTC | #922900

JeremyW's Avatar Comment 5 by JeremyW

I think it's fantastic that Santorum is getting some spotlight time, and I hope he wins the nomination (at which point he will be crushed by Obama).

Exposure can only help raise awareness about exactly how batshit these people are. It has certainly opened some conversational doors for me and my religious friends ("Can you believe that in 2012 adults are debating contraception?").

Even conservatives flinch when he mentions wanting to "vomit" because of a JFK speech about the separation of church and state, or when he calls Obama a "snob" for encouraging education. The interesting thing about Santorum is that he isn't pandering: he obviously ACTUALLY believes the crazy things that come out of his mouth.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:34:44 UTC | #922901

JeremyW's Avatar Comment 6 by JeremyW

Comment 4 by Sjoerd Westenborg :

*Santorum mode on *

Anything that reduces faith is must be invented by Satan and inherently evil. Science can't disprove that.

One would hope that most religious people speak of "Satan" metaphorically to reference evil or temptation. I think that Santorum actually fears an angry man with a pitchfork and a pointy tail, or Dante's bat-winged monster!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:40:14 UTC | #922906

DonDonDon's Avatar Comment 7 by DonDonDon

It's depressing that in college I realized logic works..

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:41:48 UTC | #922907

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 8 by Tyler Durden

Comment 1 by Neodarwinian :

This from an ill educated wackaloon that could not tell one how salt dissolves in water. We could all be knuckle walkers as long as we were indoctrinated in Rickie's favorite delusion.

Santorum actually holds three degrees - a BA in political science, an MBA, and a law degree.

It's the classic GOP 'do as I say, not as I do' hypocrisy - he knows higher education is a direct threat to the continuing delusion of blind faith.

Damn those liberal professors and their blatant indoctrination of reason and critical thinking methods. Yes Richard Dawkins, I mean you!!!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:42:53 UTC | #922908

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 9 by aroundtown

Thank you Lawrence for pointing out the affliction we are facing in proposals to reduce higher education of the populace at large. I had assumed it could not get an worse than W. but I guess the lowest common denominator is still lurking on the fringe and would love to browbeat up into a new level of forced religious indoctrination. It is not a surprise really in light of the present condition that exists within the conservative think tanks, I say that term with utter contempt, in their practiced and principled disinformation campaigns to achieve their goals. Should they succeed the future of America is indeed bleak for achieving parity with the educated global population. Sad is what comes to mind, and deplorable as well.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:50:48 UTC | #922910

ShadowMind's Avatar Comment 10 by ShadowMind

Where does the USA find these anti-education imbeciles?
And how on earth do they get into positions of power?

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:14:55 UTC | #922919

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 11 by alaskansee

I think it's safe to say that VIRTUALLY any religious person when asked which was more important, a university education or their faith, the answer would be faith.

Fortunately they are not mutually exclusive. The way the question is framed makes it impossible to expect any other answer but of course it is a false dichotomy as Santorum shows every day or the many religious universities that take tax payers money and still produce educated people, even if handicapped.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:20:07 UTC | #922922

SomersetJohn's Avatar Comment 12 by SomersetJohn

The real disgrace is that way more than half of the American people are in danger of being dragged back to the sociological stone age by a small, hypocritical, lying bunch of traitors who are convinced their personal power is more important than the rest of the human race.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:23:46 UTC | #922924

TeraBrat's Avatar Comment 13 by TeraBrat

I know a lot of people who have degrees, including my father who is an MSEE, who have faith. If you lose your "faith" in college you never really had it.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:28:14 UTC | #922926

foundationist's Avatar Comment 14 by foundationist

Thanks Lawrence, a well-written and very necessary article. Probably not strategically smart, but screw that.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:33:09 UTC | #922927

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 15 by Neodarwinian

@ Tyler Durden

" Santorum actually holds three degrees - a BA in political science, an MBA, and a law degree "

OK, marginally educated, but can he tell me how salt dissolves in water? ( hint, Rickie, ions and polar covalent bonding )

Yes, the threat to faith is all he cares about, supposedly. Still, one wonders if he would send his own children to a secular college ( good school ) if that risk really bothered him that much.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:43:11 UTC | #922931

hitchens_jnr's Avatar Comment 16 by hitchens_jnr

Comment 6 by JeremyW :

Comment 4 by Sjoerd Westenborg :

One would hope that most religious people speak of "Satan" metaphorically to reference evil or temptation. I think that Santorum actually fears an angry man with a pitchfork and a pointy tail, or Dante's bat-winged monster!

I agree with the sentiment, but quibble with one detail: something tells me Rick Santorum has never even heard of Dante ...

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:16:24 UTC | #922938

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 17 by xmaseveeve

Comment Removed by Author

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:24:39 UTC | #922941

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 18 by xmaseveeve

Isn't this all a bit medieval and - Islamic? Is their faith so fragile? Why take the chance of losing your gullibility just to have an education? You may still believe in a god, but also in other things as well.

What is fragile is their grip on power, and they know it. How do you spell a cackle (no Saudi police around, I hope)?

Isn't Dante one of the Muppets - oh no, Tricky-boy was. He landed on the cutting room floor because he was too silly for children.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:27:09 UTC | #922942

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 19 by potteryshard

Santorum actually holds three degrees - a BA in political science, an MBA, and a law degree

That may be so, but those are not science or engineering degrees which force a certain grounding in reality. He has studied to be a money-grubber and manipulator. No surprises there; it is embarassingly evident every time he opens his mouth.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:30:00 UTC | #922945

Karen Hill Anton's Avatar Comment 20 by Karen Hill Anton

Oh thank you, Lawrence Krauss. Yours is like a voice in the wilderness. The American electorate don't appear to notice how insane it is Rick S is even running for president. I am grateful this article has appeared in such a prominent publication.

                            Karen 

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:33:43 UTC | #922946

blitz442's Avatar Comment 21 by blitz442

Comment 19 by potteryshard

Your comment is ridiculous. I have an MBA, a BS in accounting and finance, and am a CPA, yet I have no degrees in science or engineering. By your reckoning, people like me are just money grubbing idiots???

Not everyone needs to spend their youth chasing an advanced degree in a science in order to be grounded in reality.

And by the way, some of the most ardent creationists that I have ever met are engineers. An engineering degree is by no means a guarantee against woo/religious thinking.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:59:03 UTC | #922954

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 22 by Ignorant Amos

A brilliant lecture by Sir Paul Nurse on the Beeb.....The Richard Dimbleby Lecture, Science an the new enlightenment.....and the importance of research and EDUCATION. He had a wee poke at religion too.

In the 2012 Richard Dimbleby Lecture, leading geneticist and Nobel laureate Sir Paul Nurse explores the wonder of science and how it enhances our culture and civilisation. He investigates how science can not only help solve the world's big problems, but also be harnessed to improve health and quality of life. One of Britain's most eminent scientists, Sir Paul is the president of the Royal Society and chief executive of the UK Centre for Medical Research and Innovation.

A few of our favourites dotted about the audience.....I was half expecting to see RD's fizog pitch up on the screen.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:31:09 UTC | #922959

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 23 by potteryshard

By your reckoning, people like me are just money grubbing idiots???

I didn't use the word idiots. But from my deeply cynical point of view, it is impossible to see a BA in political science, an MBA, and a law degree as any thing other than a specialization in money-grubbing and manipulation.

I don't disagree that engineers can be just as wooly-headed as anyone else. But, engineers are trained to respect the inner working of reality. Even more importantly, engineers are not trained in the arts of imposing their wishes on others. It is the inherent training in manipulation that makes these specializations so pernicious.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:54:42 UTC | #922972

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 24 by xmaseveeve

Potteryshard,

What about lawyers who devote their lives to pro bono human rights work all over the world??

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:03:11 UTC | #922978

Finch's Avatar Comment 25 by Finch

Comment 8 by Tyler Durden :

Comment 1 by Neodarwinian :

This from an ill educated wackaloon that could not tell one how salt dissolves in water. We could all be knuckle walkers as long as we were indoctrinated in Rickie's favorite delusion.

Santorum actually holds three degrees - a BA in political science, an MBA, and a law degree.

It's the classic GOP 'do as I say, not as I do' hypocrisy - he knows higher education is a direct threat to the continuing delusion of blind faith.

Damn those liberal professors and their blatant indoctrination of reason and critical thinking methods. Yes Richard Dawkins, I mean you!!!

Good point. You don't get this far in US politics (12-year US Senator and GOP presidential hopeful) being an uneducated schmuck. Santorum has smarts.

What will kill his presidential aspirations (if he even makes it to the general election) is his anti-Constitutional views on separation of church and state because, even though we Americans value religious freedom, we value religion staying out of politics, even more.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:13:31 UTC | #922982

markstolz's Avatar Comment 26 by markstolz

What is wrong in the US. What Santorum is suggesting makes no sense at all.

Is he wanting the gap between say the US and China to happen sooner. Isn't there a correlation between an educated workforce and economic output??

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:33:56 UTC | #922988

Starcrash's Avatar Comment 27 by Starcrash

Isn't Rick Santorum a man of faith? Doesn't he believe that, if he prayed to God that colleges would not cause students to lose their religious faith, that God would intervene and change this? If his God is all-powerful, why is it necessary to fight this battle with natural means (preaching against college education) rather than with supernatural means?

Do the religious ever believe prayer can fix their problems? Why do they feel it's necessary to take their problems to us, the non-omnipotent, fallible beings?

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:55:17 UTC | #922994

Quine's Avatar Comment 28 by Quine

"... That dang collage edjacashun! Brainwashing them kids with Helleocentrik Theory!"

Seriously, the more the homeschoolers keep their kids at home, the more room there is in the colleges for all the kids that are sent to this country by smart parents from elsewhere in the world.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:33:16 UTC | #923002

Sean_W's Avatar Comment 29 by Sean_W

Great, you dun brought the ferners into it. That's all it is innit? Turn ares into atheists and give commies the upper hand by educatin'em in real workable stuff? -som friend 'merica you is

Shoot, my daddy went off to one of them schools and the english professor said here's a poem. Write a 500 word essay bout it. Ha! My daddy wrote back, poem itself ain't nuttin' but 100 words or so. Hell I'm going write 500 words to talk about 100 words! -college, hmpf, words

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:56:13 UTC | #923005

RJMoore's Avatar Comment 30 by RJMoore

Seriously, the more the homeschoolers keep their kids at home, the more room there is in the colleges for all the kids that are sent to this country by smart parents from elsewhere in the world.

Exactly. See whether future generations value faith more than education when their standard of living falls further and further behind that of the educated.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:18:19 UTC | #923009