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← Rick Warren and the “Same” God Issue

Rick Warren and the “Same” God Issue - Comments

Gary W. Longsine's Avatar Comment 1 by Gary W. Longsine

For more on the topic of the faulty and counterproductive notion that the major religions worship the same god, consider reading the book God is Not One [review at LA Times] by Stephen Prothero.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:07:43 UTC | #924627

Metamag's Avatar Comment 2 by Metamag

"Read more" link is not working...

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:13:33 UTC | #924630

some asshole's Avatar Comment 3 by some asshole

Do children in Missouri appease the same Santa Claus as those in London? What does "same" mean when the thing in question is nonexistent?

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:33:03 UTC | #924634

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 4 by drumdaddy

You say "Gollum", I say "Smeagol".

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:35:45 UTC | #924636

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 5 by AtheistEgbert

Who actually speaks on behalf of Christianity? What is the official beliefs? Christian orthodoxy persecuted and destroyed heretics through history, does that make it the real version of Christianity?

Of course Warren reflects the view of many American evangelical Christians, and as far as I'm aware, there is no such thing as an interfaith view or interfaith religion, with the exception of perhaps that strange religion known as Baha'i. The entire interfaith dialogue is an attempt for various differing viewpoints to form a civilized dialogue between them, and not to assimilate all those different views into one single monotheistic interfaith viewpoint, which is absurd.

So the interfaith thing is a myth. It's propaganda by naive people trying to resolve what is unresolvable, trying to make peace with views that can never be at peace.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:01:08 UTC | #924645

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 6 by JHJEFFERY

"The belief in God as a Trinity is the foundational difference between Christians and everyone else."

You know how many Christians it takes to change a light bulb?

Three, but they are as one.

Mods: the "read more" link does not work.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:13:41 UTC | #924649

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 8 by aquilacane

But what of the goblins? Are their teeth longer on the top of their jaw or the bottom of their jaw? We all agree they had large teeth on one of the rows, but which is it; top or bottom? And why do they always ignore the very important question of the Great Teapot (may you be steeped in the boiling waters of life) and the disagreements over the decorative pattern it exhibits. Lilies and fruits, it must be.

The trinity is like going to the bathroom. Sometimes, it's a liquid. Sometimes, it's a gas. Sometimes, it's a solid. Sometimes, it's all three but it's always a load of crap.*

*I've written that before, in case I sound repetitive

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:28:19 UTC | #924652

crookedshoes's Avatar Comment 9 by crookedshoes

Does the flying spaghetti monster count as the same as Jesus? Do HIS noodley appendages reach that far????

What a non-issue...... Warren gets his panties all in a bunch over make believe. What a joke. Next, I 'll hear about how "it is a mystery" and that will be followed by the tautological "only those chosen to understand it can understand it....." A load of horse shit on a silver cross shaped dish.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:31:37 UTC | #924653

Neil Schipper's Avatar Comment 10 by Neil Schipper

Article link

admin: feel free to delete this comment

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:36:40 UTC | #924654

Moderator's Avatar Comment 11 by Moderator

Mods: the "read more" link does not work.

Sorry - something's not working properly at the moment. We're looking into it. In the meantime, here's the full link URL: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2012/03/03/rick-warren-and-the-same-god-issue/

Update - link fixed

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:39:48 UTC | #924656

stellier68's Avatar Comment 12 by stellier68

I always had a weak spot for the Holy Spirit. It seems to me like he's the underdog of the Trinity. A lot of people had seen Jesus appeared to them in person or on a piece toast, but we don't hear very often people who said they have seen the Holy Spirit appear in their staircase...We should maybe ask Mr. Warren on how to recognize him, in case we have an epiphany...Like, is he shorter than Jesus? Does he wear a beard or just a mustache? Is he old-school and wears the Djellaba or does he has a more acute sense of style? I would really love to know

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:59:24 UTC | #924659

Starcrash's Avatar Comment 13 by Starcrash

When debating against Christians, I often compare them to Muslims and their similar arguments because it's such a great analogy, and the answer I often get back is "you know we believe in the same God, right?"

I'm tired of this rebuttal. I have to keep explaining that, while Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions, they are clearly not the same Abrahamic religion. Muslims kill Christians for apostasy. I wish all Christians could just be as honest as Rick Warren is being here.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 18:12:29 UTC | #924664

Sean_W's Avatar Comment 14 by Sean_W

The Holy Spirit manifests itself in the lives of believers. You will recognize it by its fruits.

It looks like you 'n me. I know, it's such an obvious fact that I'm amazed more believers don't recognize their divinity -you're god, Christ! -even- Just read the book already.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 18:18:25 UTC | #924666

btheist's Avatar Comment 15 by btheist

Warren is a jerk no matter which false god he worships. His ignorance is telling, as Muslim's and Christians do believe in the same Abrahamic God, it's how they go about that it that differs. The fact that he want's everyone to join his ministry is more about lining his pockets than helping people find salvation.

There is a fundamental dissonance, particularly with Evangelicals, how do you reconcile love thy neighbour with knowing they are going to hell for not believing what you do. It hides a prejudice beneath the Vail of political correctness.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 18:20:35 UTC | #924667

obijuanmartinez's Avatar Comment 16 by obijuanmartinez

I always looked at the Christians' god as Judaism's sloppy seconds, and Allah as thirsty thirds - Now it's all so much clearer. Kudos, Mr. Warren!

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 18:47:18 UTC | #924675

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 17 by aroundtown

Much ado over nothing, literally. The further adventures of describing the intricacies of non-existant god's.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:02:08 UTC | #924679

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 18 by Mr DArcy

How refreshing to come upon a "true" Christian, as Mr Warren surely is! No waiting on the question mark for him! No Sharia law to be permitted! No inter-faith dialogue unless it be to convert! No tolerance of non-belief, or other religions! No human empathy! No regard for evidence or rationality! No wishy washy pinko socialist Jesus for him! A proper Jesus who stands up for private property, slavery and wage slavery, capitalism, the free market, - and of course God's own country the USA!

Yes indeed, Mr Warren, - a proper Christian you are indeed!

(Now, how do you submit a nomination for the Bad Faith Award?)

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:07:14 UTC | #924682

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 19 by xmaseveeve

One of the comments -

''It’s when we acknowledge our honest intentions and desires that genuine friendship, dialogue, and witness can happen. I don’t mean that we must always blatantly broadcast these intentions, but neither should we gloss over them. I’d much prefer for a friend of another faith to acknowledge their desire for me to convert to their faith than to downplay this desire. I would, in fact, be honored by their conviction for their faith and their desire for me, their friend, to convert. I think this sort of respectful honesty can remove much of the fear and indirect communication from interfaith friendships and conversations.''

A spokesperson for the People's Front of Judea.

(I posted 'You know it's a myth. Unite in Humanism.')

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:11:04 UTC | #924683

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 20 by Philoctetes

Pardon my ignorance but who the fuck is Rick Warren. From the few lines presented he seems just another delusional god botherer, so why are we bothering with him here?

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:12:50 UTC | #924684

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 21 by strangebrew

Seems Warren has a few issues with working out basic theology there....

He seems to consider jeebus as top doggy ...but jeebus is son to the father and in true patriarchal habit it is the father that is top doggy in this nonsense...he is after all the one true god according to evangelical spin and has been around a lot longer then his brat or some vague ghost.

One wonders what the fuck Warren thinks the whole bible, both old and new, was about ?

The trinity is a 4th century cobbled together baling wire, spit and duck tape fix for the various cults worshipping the different forms...all purportedly xian...just not xian enough..so they did what xians always did...nicked a previous idea and called it their own!

The concept of the Trinity finds its roots in Pagan theology and Greek philosophy. It was a mish mash of early Babylonian and later Egyptian in the form of Isis, Serapis, and the child Horus and it was the later form that early theologians probably pillaged to cobble their delusion together.

Jeebus was credited with a few words on the matter....

I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me’,{# Joh 5:30}

Another sound byte....

My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me’;{# Joh 7:16}

And yet another....

My Father is greater than I’ {#Joh 14:28}

Jeebus never considered he was a prong of a triad...and it was apparently never mentioned in the bible...anywhere...it is purely a emergency invention from later centuries when they were trying to cobble it all together from different strands.

That a so called leader of a major cult is so divorced from the very history his cult descended from is not just lamentable...it is fucking criminal and suggests very strongly that he views his 'ministry' as a scam and cash cow where deep understanding of the delusion and its roots are not required to fleece the gullible..

Conclusion...

Warren is a ignorant and fatuous glob of sheer idiocy.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:31:28 UTC | #924689

Quine's Avatar Comment 22 by Quine

Re Comment 20 by Philoctetes, just type "Rick Warren" into the search box at the top of the page and you will get links to prior discussions. Here is an example:

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/825-the-god-debate

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:33:56 UTC | #924690

Rawhard Dickins's Avatar Comment 23 by Rawhard Dickins

The real danger is that while ever this type of "moderate" religion exists..

i.e. believing Jesus was born of a virgin (in a relationship with Joseph) and went on to walk on water, return from the dead, had a famous dad who was also himself... blah-di-blah...

...there will always be a springboard for even greater loopiness, as in the recent case of the cruelly murdered boy accused of witchcraft. Our indigenous religion can hardly be upheld in contrasted with something like this?

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:37:51 UTC | #924691

Metamag's Avatar Comment 24 by Metamag

Comment 20 by Philoctetes :

Pardon my ignorance but who the fuck is Rick Warren. From the few lines presented he seems just another delusional god botherer, so why are we bothering with him here?

Obama invited him to his inauguration, it was sickening to watch.

Also he wrote the best-seller book "Purpose" or some shit, garbage similar to quantum quackery from that Indian charlatan.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:46:08 UTC | #924694

Billions and Billions's Avatar Comment 25 by Billions and Billions

I noticed that Warren excluded Judaism from his list of non-Christian religions. (Perhaps not to offend Jewish allies.) Judaism and Islam are both Abrahamic religions, and since Jesus was a Jew and preached from the Old Testament, just who does Warren think Jesus was praying to at the Mount of Olives, etc? I've never understood their concept of the Trinity.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:47:02 UTC | #924695

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 26 by strangebrew

Comment 25 by Billions and Billions

I've never understood their concept of the Trinity.

Ask 3 different xians you get 7 different answers. No one knows in reality...even present day theologians not just struggle but drown in their own facetiousness around this ridiculous notion.

Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, (around the time of the Nicene council and the debates) confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.

They had to get several different xian strands all singing from the same hymn sheet...the xian rabble were murdering each other over this interpretation of who or what was god, they were just being xian dumbshits...the easiest way was combine all three aspects, which all had their own followers, into the one.

Problem is it is so incomprehensible and incoherent that it rattles when it walks...and jeebus had no thoughts on any trinity anyway...so it is a man invented sticking plaster for xians that besides being dumb murderous cretins were also gullible with it.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:17:36 UTC | #924705

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 27 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:44:17 UTC | #924713

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 28 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

Whether or not people of different religions believe in the same god, without exception the god(s) they believe in have a lot in common: they are invisible, silent, intangible, odourless and tasteless - and they don't even leave any footprints.

Isn't that amazing! Think about it. If different cultures around the world were just making gods up, it's too much of a coincidence that they could share so many characteristics. They must be on to something.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:51:19 UTC | #924714

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 29 by strangebrew

Comment 27 by JoxerTheMighty

Bleh, I'm fraking bored out of my mind of this site.

Then go somewhere else and get bored...your choice...no one is forcing you here.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:51:44 UTC | #924715

Stevezar's Avatar Comment 30 by Stevezar

This is a valid criticism. Its ok when the topic is religion (like this one), but atheism all too often gets dragged into topics where it really has no place, like some evolutionary topic with the predictable "lets see the god botherers explain this one" remark.

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:52:59 UTC | #924716