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Science book delayed when someone notices it's written by creationists - Comments

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 1 by rod-the-farmer

A meeting held at the "School of Hotel Administration".........ah well. I better bookmark that as another in my list of places to go for questions about biology , evolution and stuff.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:39:32 UTC | #925908

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 2 by aquilacane

Man, they just suck... so bad. You have to be a real dirt-bag to hang with these folk.

EDIT: Even if you think you are right, the method is so underhanded, you can only be considered a fraud or a con, at best.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:39:32 UTC | #925909

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 3 by Alan4discussion

The contributors to this volume use their wide-ranging expertise in the area of biological information to bring fresh insights into the explanatory difficulties that biological information raises. Going beyond the conventional scientific wisdom, which attempts to explain biological information reductionistically via chemical, genetic, and natural selective determinants, the work represented here develops novel non-reductionist approaches to biological information, looking notably to telic [sic] and self-organizational [sic] processes.

So - Non-reductionist, non-science, pseudoscience!

And this conference had people from every field, from physicists, bio-physicists, chemists, biochemists, mathematicians, geneticists, molecular biologists, computer scientists. All these people came together. We were agreed one one thing, and that is that Darwin was wrong.

Just the usual appeal to fake authority then!

But who were the reviewers? Marks II & co. would have provided some suggestions (presumably their friends), but did Springer ask anyone else? And did they query the book's suitability for their Intelligent Systems section?

Indeed - with a meeting in a non-biology university department and an attempt at publication with non-biological reviewers, they thought they had found another gullible editor! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sternberg_peer_review_controversy

A couple of days after the book was noticed, the announcement on Springer's webpages disappeared. The editors decided that "additional peer review would be necessary", according to their executive vice president of corporate communications, which sounds like there was a collective "oh bugger" when Springer realised their mistake, so they've bought themselves some time to sort out the mess. Of course, this may not mean that they won't publish the book anyway: they may decide that the extra sales to creationists is worth the hit to their credibility (especially if they reduce the price from the $179 it was originally listed for). This would also avoid the inevitable accusations of suppression of creationist viewpoints, recriminations that don't impress proper scientists

$179 for pure crapology! I can get better biological information from composted lawn-mowings!

It may turn out to be a good test of the peer-review process.

If they refuse to publish it, it may turn up in cretinist websites for sheeples to quote!

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:40:58 UTC | #925910

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 4 by Tyler Durden

Conventional chemical and evolutionary mechanisms seem insufficient to fully explain the labyrinth of information that is life.

All together now... "therefore, god."

IDiots.

"We were agreed one one thing, and that is that Darwin was wrong." - John Sandford

Evidence, please.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:13 UTC | #925914

RomeStu's Avatar Comment 5 by RomeStu

Wouldn't it be nice if prestigious educational establishments simply withdrew tenure from people who openly espouse utterly disproven and discrdited scientific views......

Ha Ha, still it's a nice thought

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:50:56 UTC | #925944

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 6 by Border Collie

Ho, hum ...

"And basically it was over 120 people gathered, about half of them PhDs, 25 speakers were PhD scientists "[who] talked about the reality [of] number 1: biological information in living systems is astounding, wonderful, beautifully [?] and wonderfully made and number 2: it is coming undone. And this conference had people from every field, from physicists, bio-physicists, chemists, biochemists, mathematicians, geneticists, molecular biologists, computer scientists. All these people came together. We were agreed one one thing, and that is that Darwin was wrong." "

So, a tornado CAN blow through a junkyard and make a 747! Who'da thunk it?

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:58:04 UTC | #925946

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 7 by Neodarwinian

" Science book delayed when someone notices it's written by creationists "

Science book?!?!? Perhaps they mean a book printed as a result of the scientific method as applied by Gutenberg.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:14:13 UTC | #925947

BowDownToGizmo's Avatar Comment 8 by BowDownToGizmo

Is this not fraud? Shouldn't someone be arrested?

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:28:56 UTC | #925952

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 9 by Mr DArcy

Lying for Jesus, as Richard put so well a few years ago.

If the omnipotent creator of the universe has to get His supporters to creep around, deceive and lie about science, it shows how impotent He really is!

Limp dick Jesus strikes again!

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:38:52 UTC | #925956

aroundtown's Avatar Comment 10 by aroundtown

So the tripe of intelligent design is rolled out yet again resulting in a pathetic waste of paper that could've had a useful purpose. For shame!

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:54:08 UTC | #925963

Starcrash's Avatar Comment 11 by Starcrash

Even if ID proponents wanted to win, is this the way they wanted to do it? Did they think it was right to fight back by any means possible? If the tables were turned, would they find a textbook sneaked through championing Darwin under secretive semantics to be alright, or is this a case of special pleading?

It was clever... a clever way to cheat. I hope they feel sorry for being underhanded in their presentation of their worldview, but knowledge of human nature would lead me to conclude that most of them are only sorry "that they got caught".

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:00:51 UTC | #925980

Red Dog's Avatar Comment 12 by Red Dog

Comment 11 by Starcrash :

Even if ID proponents wanted to win, is this the way they wanted to do it? Did they think it was right to fight back by any means possible? If the tables were turned, would they find a textbook sneaked through championing Darwin under secretive semantics to be alright, or is this a case of special pleading?

It was clever... a clever way to cheat. I hope they feel sorry for being underhanded in their presentation of their worldview, but knowledge of human nature would lead me to conclude that most of them are only sorry "that they got caught".

ID people, like most religious people, play by different rules. If they cared about honor or logic they would see through their own poorly reasoned arguments. For them its about God and saving immortal souls so pretty much anything can be rationalized.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:24:54 UTC | #925984

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 13 by mordacious1

Comment 1 by rod-the-farmer

A meeting held at the "School of Hotel Administration".

Hey, don't knock it. A lot of biology occurs in hotels, and I'm not just referring to the obvious. There are entire ecosystems living in some hotel bedspreads, carpets, showers...not to mention room service.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:44:21 UTC | #925987

Perfect Tommy's Avatar Comment 14 by Perfect Tommy

This is so damn funny, albeit honestly sad. Getting around peer review by taking a biology book, and getting it "peer" reviewed by a computer scientists, through Engineering and Application, on the campus of Cornell University hoping to get the stamp on their book to make it look legit, while at the School for Hotel Management...I couldn't have made that up in my wildest dreams. Talk about being corrupted on all levels. This needs to be spread far and wide on how pathetic they are that they have to do this to even get a hint of being taken seriously.

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 23:36:44 UTC | #925998

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 15 by Alan4discussion

Comment 12 by Red Dog - Comment 11 by Starcrash :

Anything goes! These people have god's moral approval to spread HIS wuuurrrrrdddd!! That can't possibly be wrong or immoral by (theist) definition!!

Comment 8 by BowDownToGizmo - Is this not fraud? Shouldn't someone be arrested?

Let the buyer beware!

Sat, 10 Mar 2012 23:51:45 UTC | #926002

CEVA34's Avatar Comment 16 by CEVA34

I think too much emphasis is being put on these guys being fanatical believers in God. I have a horrid suspicion at least some of them genuinely can't believe (or understand) the science. In other words, they are honest ignoramuses (ignorami?).

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:39:12 UTC | #926010

Universeman's Avatar Comment 17 by Universeman

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Yep I guess the bible is true, well at least this one verse at any rate.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:50:12 UTC | #926014

mmurray's Avatar Comment 18 by mmurray

The School of Hotel Administration run a hotel and conference centre the Statler. So the conference being held there is no different to any conference being run at a Hilton. Unless the advertising blurb used the connection of the Statler to Cornell to try and leverage some Cornell endorsement for the conference. I can't find any advertising material for the conference to check that.

Michael

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:52:22 UTC | #926016

Sample's Avatar Comment 19 by Sample

@comment 9, yes! "Lying for Jesus."

I see more and more resemblance between Christianity and Islam when it comes to spreading their messages. It's well known Muslims can find theological justification for lying to infidels and here we see, I think, something similar.

Get the message out by any means.

Blechhh.

Mike

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 03:08:44 UTC | #926024

ingold.a's Avatar Comment 20 by ingold.a

"KEEP ON KNOCKIN' BUT YOU CAN'T COME IN!!!!!!!"

They can keep trying, but scientifically literate people will conitinue to thwart these foolish efforts to impose indoctrination in our Public Education.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:31:00 UTC | #926038

ingold.a's Avatar Comment 21 by ingold.a

"KEEP ON KNOCKIN' BUT YOU CAN'T COME IN!!!!!!!"

They can keep trying, but scientifically literate people will conitinue to thwart these foolish efforts to impose indoctrination in our Public Education.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:33:37 UTC | #926040

Sean_W's Avatar Comment 22 by Sean_W

There is a global conspiracy to suppress the truth of Intelligent Design, these guys do what they have to.

Flagellum!

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:44:43 UTC | #926042

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 23 by susanlatimer

Comment 22 by Sean_W

Flagellum!

Gesundheit.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:22:39 UTC | #926059

rationalmind's Avatar Comment 24 by rationalmind

Comment 16 by CEVA34 :

I think too much emphasis is being put on these guys being fanatical believers in God. I have a horrid suspicion at least some of them genuinely can't believe (or understand) the science. In other words, they are honest ignoramuses (ignorami?).

No. It is plain religious campaigning. Since it is the word of the lord they are allowed to tell lies to propagate it. It is just plain lying for Jesus. It is ignoramuses BTW. Ignoramus is Latin for "we don't know". It entered modern English through the name of a character in a play. US turning to I in the plural is for only certain Latin nouns anyway. Some do not change at all.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:38:22 UTC | #926060

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 25 by drumdaddy

It's all about the dumbing down of the same populace that is temporarily dumbed down regarding global warming. Creationists have no leg to stand on, no integrity, and no shame, but they do have an audience - for now.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:06:53 UTC | #926103

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 26 by Alan4discussion

And this conference had people from every field, from physicists, bio-physicists, chemists, biochemists, mathematicians, geneticists, molecular biologists, computer scientists. All these people came together. We were agreed one one thing, and that is that Darwin was wrong.

Proving that even for people with science qualifications, being a woo-head will allow them to take a public pride in their lying and ignorance of basic science and basic scientific methods.
("Look at me - I'm Dr. Thicko, with a severe attack of cognitive dissonance and a theist disabled brain!!")

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:11:35 UTC | #926106

joseywales's Avatar Comment 27 by joseywales

I wonder what Dembski et al would think if people were to agree with them with all but the identity of the intelligent designer?

They go to great lengths to evade discussion of the identity of the designer, saying that ID does not address this question.

But would they accept the theory of the designer being Allah?

What if a wealthy Saudi King wanted to make a sizable donation to promote ID "research" and publishing, in the hopes of proving that the designer was Allah. Would they accept it in the interest of the search for knowledge, or would their true colors show?

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:38:41 UTC | #926143

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 28 by Alan4discussion

Comment 27 by joseywales

What if a wealthy Saudi King wanted to make a sizable donation to promote ID "research" and publishing, in the hopes of proving that the designer was Allah. Would they accept it in the interest of the search for knowledge, or would their true colors show?

They wouldn't be dishonest enough to take the money and lie about it! - Would they??

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:52:16 UTC | #926146

SuedeStonn's Avatar Comment 29 by SuedeStonn

Thank you to the guys who spotted this travesty in the making... pathetic is what this is, trying to promote something as one thing under the auspicies of something else. :P

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:19:13 UTC | #926152

lewis.breland's Avatar Comment 30 by lewis.breland

Tricky, tricky, tricky. These guys are getting really good! There needs to be an ID-watch organization like the CIA here, soon! How embarrassing!

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:14:03 UTC | #926210