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← Why Reason Rally?

Why Reason Rally? - Comments

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 1 by I'm_not

I prefer to be a non-herdable cat I think. Any organisation that would have me as a member etc. etc.

Good luck though.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:30:55 UTC | #930045

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 2 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:39:07 UTC | #930047

EvN's Avatar Comment 3 by EvN

Four minutes between this post, Pigzig, and the previous one. What makes me think you did not even bother to read the articles?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:43:51 UTC | #930050

Pigzig's Avatar Comment 4 by Pigzig

I read them briefly

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:48:15 UTC | #930053

EvN's Avatar Comment 5 by EvN

Liar!

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:56:39 UTC | #930058

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 6 by I'm_not

I hope to be proved wrong but it will be backslapping at best and nonsensicle at worst. Maybe something wonderful will appear from it, I don't know but I suspect a lot of youtube footage that will fall right into the, "See! It's just a religion really!" camp and how will that be countered? I have nothing but respect for many of the advocates and attendees, I'm positively jealous about not seeing some of the performers but is this anything at all to do with reason or rationality? I'd love to be the promoter with that line-up. Where's the money going? What are the "stars" charging? Not interested in the money really, that's not my beef, but it is being generated isn't it?

Well, evangelise in your big tent, take the money, and at least ask yourself the reasonable question please:What is the difference between this circle-jerk and a religious circle-jerk? And a big AYYY-MENNNN from the cynical fucker at the back there mah friend, mah brother or is that too reasonable and too rational a question?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 05:31:59 UTC | #930068

privatize education's Avatar Comment 7 by privatize education

how many people are expected attend?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 05:48:00 UTC | #930073

Mee Peestevone's Avatar Comment 8 by Mee Peestevone

Blasphemy! Reason is found in Zeus.

Comment 2 by Pigzig :

Reason is found in Jesus

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:07:38 UTC | #930076

Mee Peestevone's Avatar Comment 9 by Mee Peestevone

I read in a newspaper about 30 to 50 thousand.

Comment 7 by privatize education :

how many people are expected attend?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:08:49 UTC | #930077

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 10 by MilitantNonStampCollector

It should be a fantastic event... and hopefully there will be no trouble from those loony Phelps, or any other assorted fruits.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:16:20 UTC | #930079

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 11 by susanlatimer

I don't know but I suspect a lot of youtube footage that will fall right into the, "See! It's just a religion really!" camp and how will that be countered?

It will be countered with other youtube footage. It's a mish mosh out there, so saying less and congregating least is the worst idea. You can't counter cheap edits any better than you can counter flea books. Which is to say, don't stop countering. You can do a better job. They have nothing but propaganda, so counter it with reason and evidence. Don't let them control the conversation.

I'm not a gatherer, by nature. But in this case, I wish I could be there. In my bones, I feel like it's an important cultural/historical event that's calling us to take a stand. In 2012, it's more important than ever. Thousands and thousands gathering in Washington, D.C. to say, "We believe in reason."

It's a small thing but it's not a small thing. That's how politics and culture work.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:29:21 UTC | #930082

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 12 by susanlatimer

Comment 4 by Pigzig

I read them briefly.

Comment 5 by EvN

Liar!

Good call.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:35:10 UTC | #930084

S. Gudmundsson's Avatar Comment 13 by S. Gudmundsson

We really have to ask "why reason"? Not a good sign.

Also, don't feed the troll, people.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:47:55 UTC | #930091

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 14 by I'm_not

Comment 11 by susanlatimer :

I don't know but I suspect a lot of youtube footage that will fall right into the, "See! It's just a religion really!" camp and how will that be countered?

It will be countered with other youtube footage. It's a mish mosh out there, so saying less and congregating least is the worst idea. You can't counter cheap edits any better than you can counter flea books. Which is to say, don't stop countering. You can do a better job. They have nothing but propaganda, so counter it with reason and evidence. Don't let them control the conversation.

I'm not a gatherer, by nature. But in this case, I wish I could be there. In my bones, I feel like it's an important cultural/historical event that's calling us to take a stand. In 2012, it's more important than ever. Thousands and thousands gathering in Washington, D.C. to say, "We believe in reason."

It's a small thing but it's not a small thing. That's how politics and culture work.

I respect your opinion and hope you're right, I really do.

It reminds me of the Labour Party in the election against John major back in the early '90's. The damn thing was practically in the bag, huge triumphant rally......All to shit.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:06:43 UTC | #930094

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 15 by drumdaddy

As a lifelong devotee of peace, I weep with joy that secularism is fast gaining strength while swimming against the tide of religions. We are in the right, which sustains us. We have so much more work to do, yet today we reach a landmark which gives us every right to be exultant!

Peace through Atheism! Keep it real, my sisters and brothers! I love you all.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:31:39 UTC | #930098

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 16 by susanlatimer

Comment 14 by I'm_not

I respect your opinion and hope you're right, I really do.

That's very nice of you. I'm not sure why. I hope I'm right, too.

It reminds me of the Labour Party in the election against John major back in the early '90's. The damn thing was practically in the bag, huge triumphant rally......All to shit.

There's no guarantee of victory if we try. But there IS guarantee of failure if we don't. So, here's to everyone who stands up for reason. It's the only way to win the battle. Stand up.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:42:40 UTC | #930099

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 17 by I'm_not

Comment 16 by susanlatimer :

Comment 14 by I'm_not

I respect your opinion and hope you're right, I really do.

That's very nice of you. I'm not sure why. I hope I'm right, too.

It reminds me of the Labour Party in the election against John major back in the early '90's. The damn thing was practically in the bag, huge triumphant rally......All to shit.

There's no guarantee of victory if we try. But there IS guarantee of failure if we don't. So, here's to everyone who stands up for reason. It's the only way to win the battle. Stand up.

You are assuming a rally is the one and only way to go. I agree that the victory is necessary. I disagree that this is a stepping stone to achieving it and suspect it will be a hostage to fortune. I've been here before and it looks horribly familiar.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:08:56 UTC | #930104

paulmcuk's Avatar Comment 18 by paulmcuk

What is the difference between this circle-jerk and a religious circle-jerk?

Does there have to be a difference? My view of this event is that one of its primary goal is for US secularists to stand up and be counted. One of the reasons that religion dominates in the US is because atheists are dismissed as irrelevant in political terms. If 50,000 of them gather and make noise then

I'm not in the US but from the outside it seems to me that US secularists HAVE to organise and campaign in exactly the same way that religions (or minority groups) do. There's no sign that religion is going to decline naturally as it has in other parts of the world.

It may be against the nature of secularists to come together under the tenuous banner of not believing in god but frankly a few lone voices arguing, however eloquently, are never going to drive political change. Politicians will only factor the secular view into their calculations if they see that secular America is a) more numerous than they thought, b) organised and c) vocal. This event will hopefully be a step on that road and, crucially, encourage the "hidden" atheists many of us suspect are out there to step out of the shadows.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:11:38 UTC | #930107

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 19 by susanlatimer

Comment 17 by I'm_not

You are assuming a rally is the one and only way to go.

What gave you that idea? But a rally is important. I don't think any progressive movement can make its living on rallies alone. But showing up in numbers and making your case heard is crucial on so many levels.

I agree that the victory is necessary. I disagree that this is a stepping stone to achieving it and suspect it will be a hostage to fortune. I've been here before and it looks horribly familiar.

understand your misgivings. But bear in mind that great things have been accomplished throughout history by people standing together and showing up in crowds. Just because things can go horribly wrong, doesn't mean they will. When people genuinely organize under a banner of "reason", I think odds are improved significantly.

Stand up. Don't give in. We'd be letting everyone down if we did.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:32:14 UTC | #930110

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 20 by I'm_not

Comment 18 by paulmcuk :

What is the difference between this circle-jerk and a religious circle-jerk?

Does there have to be a difference? My view of this event is that one of its primary goal is for US secularists to stand up and be counted. One of the reasons that religion dominates in the US is because atheists are dismissed as irrelevant in political terms. If 50,000 of them gather and make noise then

I'm not in the US but from the outside it seems to me that US secularists HAVE to organise and campaign in exactly the same way that religions (or minority groups) do. There's no sign that religion is going to decline naturally as it has in other parts of the world.

It may be against the nature of secularists to come together under the tenuous banner of not believing in god but frankly a few lone voices arguing, however eloquently, are never going to drive political change. Politicians will only factor the secular view into their calculations if they see that secular America is a) more numerous than they thought, b) organised and c) vocal. This event will hopefully be a step on that road and, crucially, encourage the "hidden" atheists many of us suspect are out there to step out of the shadows.

This isn't an atheist rally, there are people addressing it, at least by video feed, of a religious persuasion but that isn't the problem. By definition reason works through logical arguement, not through numbers. I don't care how many attend, no one should care how many attend, reason doesn't work that way.

An atheist rally - fine, I'll be there. A socialist rally - fine, I'll be there. A reason rally? it's almost an oxymoron

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:32:57 UTC | #930111

mmurray's Avatar Comment 21 by mmurray

Comment 6 by I'm_not :

What is the difference between this circle-jerk and a religious circle-jerk?

Surely religious people are opposed to the sin of onan?

More seriously large gatherings can be enormously powerful events in democracies. Particularly if you can find a good speaker.

Michael

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:57:41 UTC | #930115

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 22 by I'm_not

I am holding a reason rally of one. Would anyone here care to argue that numbers matter more than my reasoning?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:00:56 UTC | #930116

mmurray's Avatar Comment 23 by mmurray

Comment 20 by I'm_not :

This isn't an atheist rally, there are people addressing it, at least by video feed, of a religious persuasion but that isn't the problem. By definition reason works through logical arguement, not through numbers. I don't care how many attend, no one should care how many attend, reason doesn't work that way.

An atheist rally - fine, I'll be there. A socialist rally - fine, I'll be there. A reason rally? it's almost an oxymoron

Is anyone saying that rallies are how reason works ? This is a rally to promote the use of reason. In the US it seems desperately overdue.

Michael

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:02:01 UTC | #930117

mmurray's Avatar Comment 24 by mmurray

Comment 22 by I'm_not :

I am holding a reason rally of one.

Not a circle jerk of one ?

Would anyone here care to argue that numbers matter more than my reasoning?

You are creating a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "argumentum ad populum" should replace reason.

Michael

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:04:13 UTC | #930118

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 25 by I'm_not

Comment 23 by mmurray :

Comment 20 by I'm_not :

This isn't an atheist rally, there are people addressing it, at least by video feed, of a religious persuasion but that isn't the problem. By definition reason works through logical arguement, not through numbers. I don't care how many attend, no one should care how many attend, reason doesn't work that way.

An atheist rally - fine, I'll be there. A socialist rally - fine, I'll be there. A reason rally? it's almost an oxymoron

Is anyone saying that rallies are how reason works ? This is a rally to promote the use of reason. In the US it seems desperately overdue.

Michael

Let's see shall we? How much reason can occur from this thing?

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:04:22 UTC | #930119

mmurray's Avatar Comment 26 by mmurray

Comment 25 by I'm_not :

Let's see shall we? How much reason can occur from this thing?

Ah bait and shift is it? First you argue that reason can't occur at rallies by definition. So I point out it's a rally in support of reason. Now you are arguing that a rally in support of reason will not be effective.

OK I'm off. Someone call the billy goats gruff.

Michael

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:09:55 UTC | #930122

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 27 by I'm_not

Comment 24 by mmurray :

Comment 22 by I'm_not :

I am holding a reason rally of one.

Not a circle jerk of one ?

Would anyone here care to argue that numbers matter more than my reasoning?

You are creating a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "argumentum ad populum" should replace reason.

Michael

Aren't they? They have in this very thread and surely by definition that is what a rally is all about? I'd love to see what FTB is crowing by the end of it.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:17:28 UTC | #930123

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 28 by AtheistEgbert

I'm a radical individualist, but these rallies are still very important. Awareness needs to be raised, and networking helps organize people together for a common cause.

I also want to promote the idea of public places of reason. Not temples to atheism, which is silly, but a public place for reasonable people to gather and give up their time and energy for each other. I don't believe the pub is the proper place for getting serious about scepticism, humanism or atheism. Many more people would join up if they had somewhere of their own to gather and belong.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:40:39 UTC | #930129

stuhillman's Avatar Comment 29 by stuhillman

AtheistEgbert

I also want to promote the idea of public places of reason.

Try Hyde Park Corner in London - almost any day! Don't know about "reason" in this case though.

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:03:41 UTC | #930133

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 30 by I'm_not

Comment 24 by mmurray :

Comment 22 by I'm_not :

I am holding a reason rally of one.

Not a circle jerk of one ?

Would anyone here care to argue that numbers matter more than my reasoning?

You are creating a straw man. Nobody is arguing that "argumentum ad populum" should replace reason.

Michael

OK, I had a vote for the single circle jerk and I won :)

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:46:06 UTC | #930140