This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Update - Sanal Edamaruku under attack for exposing Catholic "miracle"

Update - Sanal Edamaruku under attack for exposing Catholic "miracle" - Comments

BowDownToGizmo's Avatar Comment 1 by BowDownToGizmo

Standard

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:36:51 UTC | #934251

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 2 by strangebrew

What can ya say...that thar 'fitikated feelology' got well and truly busted and they are peeved 'n' want revenge , it is a very well known religious reaction.

As a katolik' shenanigan the scenario is not new, that they are desperate and reckless enough to do it in plain view of a world with twitter, U-Tube and facebook and t'intatube cyber blog jungle is a very bad miscalculation, they do not realise just how fucking ridiculous they will look to the world, they seem to have forgotten it is not the 13th century any-more...no matter how hard they pray and wish it were.

They are incandescent and incoherent with rage...we see it...a sure sign they are rattled and stink of rancid fear to their black and twisted cores. Religion is in its death throes, that is why they have to bully and coerce. They are damaged and slipping further into the cloying tar pit of rationality, and they know it!

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:43:47 UTC | #934256

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 3 by Alan4discussion

Within minutes, he clearly identified the source of the water (a drainage near a washing room) and the mechanism how it reached Jesus feet (capillary action).

OOOOh! - Using Science! How dare he identify a right set of drips! ??? - When clever, important Catholic authorities have told the people god-did-it-by-magic-miracles! Does he have no respect for their Vatican endorsed authority on the subject?????

The local church leaders, present during his investigation, were far from pleased.

They wouldn't be. The flow of gullible pilgrims would stop or reduce to a dribble! Pilgrimages to miracle sites are big business!

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:47:58 UTC | #934258

Jonathan Dore's Avatar Comment 4 by Jonathan Dore

I've never heard of this man before, but he's a true hero who deserves to be better known. Take a look at the rest of the stories on the "Read more" link.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:55:57 UTC | #934259

achromat666's Avatar Comment 5 by achromat666

What baffles me is the event has been demonstrated as not being a miracle. The facts are there for everyone to see. So what ground does the Catholic Church have to stand on? He was invited to investigate and found fraud. What is the ground for the attack. I don't care about the church's official reasons, I want to know what basis they have to seek anything from him at all. That they lied seems to mean absolutely nothing.

Every day I am more amazed how little the truth seems to matter to religion. I swear I almost literally hear the Pope saying "that pesky science!!!!" whilst shaking his aged, bony fists.

Facts over faith, every time.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:14:24 UTC | #934263

Daryl 's Avatar Comment 6 by Daryl

Never mind how silly it is. He is facing real crimes. I fully intend to write my congress people as well as the President, simply to voice my opinion that my country (and it should be all of yours as well) do NOT ever sign a treaty where heresy or blasphemy can be considered a crime.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:26:35 UTC | #934266

SheerReason's Avatar Comment 7 by SheerReason

They know they're perpetrating a scam on people. They're trying to protect their attraction. Now that someone has pulled the curtains back so we can see the wizard so to speak, there's no way it will become a miraculous attraction. Fear not Sanal Edemaruku. Desperate actions from a slowly dying cult.

I also recommend for those interested to look into a guy named Basava Premanand. He's sort of the Indian equivalent of The Amazing Randi. He travels around exposing the true nature of miraculous tricks these people use to dupe millions into believing in miracles.

Basava Premanand exposing levetation

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:36:02 UTC | #934269

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 8 by aquilacane

If the Vatican doesn't condemn this, that's it. Coffin meet nail. No more respect, kindness or anything polite toward anyone who supports this organization. I'm done with it! They want to harass this honest man, f them, I'll harass their whole fucking organization.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:48:21 UTC | #934272

papa lazaru's Avatar Comment 9 by papa lazaru

The joke is on them. This could be straight from a Father Ted episode.

But I hope he doesn't get prosecuted for what... Exposing the truth? Breaking the spell?

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:04:11 UTC | #934277

rrh1306's Avatar Comment 10 by rrh1306

Water dripping from the feet? That has to go down as one of the weaker purported Jesus statue miracles.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:32:30 UTC | #934281

Metamag's Avatar Comment 11 by Metamag

Within minutes, he clearly identified the source of the water (a drainage near a washing room) and the mechanism how it reached Jesus feet (capillary action).

I always said that most humans are dumb semi-rational animals.

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:55:55 UTC | #934284

Jarl Carlander's Avatar Comment 12 by Jarl Carlander

You can argue, 'no testimony is sufficient to establish the existence a miracle', or you can just be like this badass and go 'muhaha the water comes out the back here look'.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:03:36 UTC | #934286

silverspirit2001's Avatar Comment 13 by silverspirit2001

Can anyone provide the Urdu? translation. Otherwise, it is gibberish to me....Like all religions...But I would like the the discussion in English...

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:04:44 UTC | #934287

Byrneo's Avatar Comment 14 by Byrneo

Here are the relevant parts of the Indian Penal Code:

  1. Injuring or defiling place of worship with intent to insult the religion of any class: -- Whoever destroys, damages or defiles any place of worship, or any object held sacred by any class of persons with the intention of thereby insulting the religion of any class of persons or with the knowledge that any class of persons is likely to consider such destruction, damage or defilement as a insult to their religion, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine, or with both.

295A. Deliberate and malicious acts, intended to outrage religious feelings or any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs: -- Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of 2[citizens of India], 3[by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to 4[three years], or with fine, or with both.]

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:12:01 UTC | #934292

old-toy-boy's Avatar Comment 15 by old-toy-boy

I cannot help but wonder, what would the catholics have done if the "water" was slightly yellow in colour.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:16:05 UTC | #934295

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 16 by xmaseveeve

So the people gathering holy water were bottling toilet water? 'Piss Christ' lives!

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:16:25 UTC | #934296

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 17 by MilitantNonStampCollector

Comment 8 by aquilacane :

If the Vatican doesn't condemn this, that's it. Coffin meet nail. No more respect, kindness or anything polite toward anyone who supports this organization. I'm done with it! They want to harass this honest man, f them, I'll harass their whole fucking organization.

The last nail in the coffin came with the child sex abuse scandal and cover-up. Catholicism is fading fast, at least in the west. It's circling the drain, and let's hope people like Sanal Edamaruku can speed that process up. In fact, forget the drain, the whole damn sink needs to be broken up.

This case reminds me of a sickly old magician/fraud who tries to perform one of the tricks from his golden days, but this time he gets caught out. And now he's angry and wants to throw a tantrum.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:17:49 UTC | #934305

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 18 by Cartomancer

Hang on, the Vatican do exactly this sort of thing themselves on a regular basis. A big part of the beatification and canonisation process is an investigation into whether the supposed miracles of a putative new saint actually are miracles or not. They send out special trained priests to check whether there is a rational explanation, so they can convince themselves the miracles are really miracles.

Surely the catholics should be THANKING Mr. Edamaruku for pointing out that this wasn't a miracle? I mean, even if you do believe miracles are possible then surely you must be open to the possibility that someone might fake one, or something that might appear miraculous actually isn't? Surely not everything has to be a miracle?

Why isn't the response more along the lines of "oh, right, it's just dripping water. Silly us. Not a miracle then. Thanks for that - boy would we have looked stupid venerating a drip of water. In fact, that jealous, angry bastard of a god we worship has a lot to say about venerating false images that aren't to do with him. Lucky escape there lads."

Oh. Of course. It's the catholics. Winners of the Nobel Prize for Hypocrisy since 1172. Carry on...

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:23:58 UTC | #934306

caseyg5's Avatar Comment 19 by caseyg5

Understand something. Sanal did the unforgiveable. He interfered with potential income derived from exploiting a pseudoscientific claim. The church had much to gain from pilgrims deposting their ducats into Catholic coffers. Now, "poof," much of it is gone and they will bring hellfire and brimstone upon the head of he who dares to de-God-ify the event. Not that it would or should happen, but if he offered a financial compensation to settle the charges, I would bet that the church would withdraw them and turn the other way, the honorable and moral organization that it is.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:59:27 UTC | #934312

rrh1306's Avatar Comment 20 by rrh1306

I agree and I just want to say once that I love your Gizmo avatar.

Comment 1 by BowDownToGizmo :

Standard

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 02:00:14 UTC | #934313

This Is Not A Meme's Avatar Comment 21 by This Is Not A Meme

awww man, what am I gonna do with all these T-shirts and bobble-heads?

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 02:23:28 UTC | #934316

Daryl 's Avatar Comment 22 by Daryl

I also think all the comments here are missing the point, because of the way we think (which is why we are here).

We would say, "Hmmm, the statue is miraculously bleeding. Once we get evidence that says otherwise, we say, "See, there is a logical explanation." And if the evidence pointed to a divine miracle, we would all swallow hard and say, "Wow, we were wrong. How about that?"

But the religious who want to believe in faith (which means believing in spite of the evidence) they will simply damn the accuser of blasphemy, and still believe it.

To us, evidence is a virtue. To them, faith is.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 03:24:59 UTC | #934325

AW's Avatar Comment 23 by AW

I am happy to live in a secular country (Japan), but Sanal is someone who is undertaking real risks to rid his country of superstition. He deserves support.

I just sent in a small contribution to his defense fund through Paypal. You might want to do the same.

http://www.rationalistinternational.net/

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 06:10:26 UTC | #934336

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 24 by strangebrew

Comment 8 by aquilacane

No more respect, kindness or anything polite toward anyone who supports this organization. I'm done with it! They want to harass this honest man, f them, I'll harass their whole fucking organization.

And I got ya back kidda!...or as they say in the movies..."Lock 'n' Load ladies...we are going in hot!"

Comment 10 by rrh1306

Water dripping from the feet? That has to go down as one of the weaker purported Jesus statue miracles.

Yep!... desperation is a bitch!

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 06:36:51 UTC | #934338

Eternal Wind's Avatar Comment 25 by Eternal Wind

Proves that nothing angers the Catholic church more than the people who meddle in their religious money farms.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:01:48 UTC | #934341

cheesedoff17's Avatar Comment 26 by cheesedoff17

First thing they should do with the water is to use it to clean in between Jesus's toes!

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:28:27 UTC | #934345

aball's Avatar Comment 27 by aball

This story isn't getting much attention in the press - much less attention than those strident, intolerant atheists like RD

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:03:54 UTC | #934348

hellosnackbar's Avatar Comment 28 by hellosnackbar

This represents an opportunity for the catholics to get a metaphorical smack in the mouth. It's ludicrous that TRUTH should be the elephant in the room.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:18:25 UTC | #934349

jel's Avatar Comment 29 by jel

This proves that religiots have no interest what so ever in truth, he shows them the evidence and they would rather ignore that and instead shout at him for exposing their lies.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:24:09 UTC | #934351

HalfaMind's Avatar Comment 30 by HalfaMind

Richard, perhaps you should drop in on your way back from Oz. India and Edamaraku need you. I'd go myself, but I don't think I'd have the same impact ;-)

Those priests need confronting. In any other rrame of reference other than their own, they are perpetrating fraud (or even extortion, possibly, given the threat of eternal damnation for not joining in).

I'll go and contribute to Edamaraku's defense fund now.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:28:35 UTC | #934352