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← Indian skeptic charged with "blasphemy" for revealing secret behind "miracle" of weeping cross

Indian skeptic charged with "blasphemy" for revealing secret behind "miracle" of weeping cross - Comments

Tiende Landeplage's Avatar Comment 1 by Tiende Landeplage

Yoo hoo, Vatican! Here's your opportunity to step in and persuade them to drop the charges against Sanal, just to show you have a smidgen of respect left for sanity and justice.

But I'm not keeping my fingers crossed.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:41:55 UTC | #934660

Sliver69's Avatar Comment 2 by Sliver69

I'm staggered that you can be arrested for blasphemy in the 21st century. Our world society is desperately immature. Maybe ignorance should be an arrestable offence, then we could arrest the entire membership of the catholic church.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:42:26 UTC | #934661

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 3 by Alan4discussion

Comment 2 by Sliver69

Why do you think the Catholics and other evanginuts, are energetically expanding into the backwaters of ignorance of the third world? They are finding diminishing numbers of gullibles in much of the educated developed world.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:06:05 UTC | #934663

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 4 by strangebrew

Blasphemy laws are the only shelter left against the rational storm for the theist.

If it was a good enough to do for Galileo it is good enough for anyone that frightens the cassock off a priest!

Nothing makes them feel more naked then a rational explanation!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:19:57 UTC | #934664

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 5 by Tyler Durden

Sanal Edamaruku, an Indian skeptic, went to Mumbai and revealed that a "miraculous" weeping cross was really just a bit of statuary located near a leaky drain whose liquid reached it by way of capillary action. The local Catholic Church demanded that he retract his statements, and when he refused, they had him arrested for blasphemy.

Oh ffs. Stop the planet, I want to get off.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:22:10 UTC | #934665

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 6 by strangebrew

You would think coppers had better things to do...they are about to make a laughing stock of the whole country, their justice system and themselves...and not just the couple of geriatric clowns with serious reality issues!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:42:04 UTC | #934667

Sample's Avatar Comment 7 by Sample

I would have introduced a dye to the water source for a better experiment.

Anyway, I am fairly confident that this debunking will not convince all. I know how the devout think. Some will undoubtedly claim that even if there are natural explanations for the dripping, it was still Yahweh drawing people to His Son through this action. That will be claimed as the real point of all this.


Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:45:31 UTC | #934668

debonnesnouvelles's Avatar Comment 8 by debonnesnouvelles

Are we receiving any news of leaders of the Catholic Church in Europe and in the Vatican apologizing for this incident and ordering their colleagues in Mumbai to immediately back off? Surely that is going to happen very swiftly indeed???

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:50:20 UTC | #934669

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 9 by strangebrew

It would be interesting to hear how the accommodationists and apologists defend this sheer idiocy.

On the other hand let them take it to court...they filed those charges in a fit of pique and childish revenge because they have been made to look like the fools and complete scammers they actually are!

They can only make it worse for themselves...It has the potential to be a ginormous faux pas, it might even expose themselves to the ridicule of the world media...not sure the Vatican would be best pleased!

But is there anyone in the Vatican with enough wit and will to realise the very choppy waters these Mumbai clowns are sailing into!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:02:27 UTC | #934671

caseyg5's Avatar Comment 10 by caseyg5

What's the punishment for blasphemy in India, crucifixion?

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:08:11 UTC | #934673

alf1200's Avatar Comment 11 by alf1200

Is there not one microscope in India?

Blood looks different than dye or iron staining.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:12:45 UTC | #934680

Zeuglodon's Avatar Comment 12 by Zeuglodon

Comment 10 by caseyg5

What's the punishment for blasphemy in India, crucifixion?

Possibly 3 or 5 years imprisonment and/or a fine.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:18:00 UTC | #934681

CJHefford's Avatar Comment 13 by CJHefford

This shows, once again, how corrupt religion can become. They were caught out, made to look the fools and will now throw their toys out of the pram.

Utterly pathetic.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:24:44 UTC | #934683

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 14 by Alan4discussion

I think international ridicule is the only reasonable response to these cretinous idiots! Reasoning with them would obviously be pointless!

The law is an ass!

I wonder if Jesus and Mo can come up with a donkey wearing a suitable expression and a judges wig?

Yes mee dud, errr Lud!

Failing that a donkey with a dog-collar and a sacred cow wearing a monk's robes could make an interesting picture set in Dumbai

Anyone got other ideas?

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:29:40 UTC | #934684

Quine's Avatar Comment 15 by Quine

Comment 10 by caseyg5:
What's the punishment for blasphemy in India, crucifixion?

What's the punishment for claiming you have a religious miracle when you don't?

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:08:18 UTC | #934687

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 16 by QuestioningKat

Three cheers for Sanal Edamaruku for having enough gumption to stand up for the truth!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:11:22 UTC | #934688

Metamag's Avatar Comment 17 by Metamag

Comment 1 by Tiende Landeplage :

Yoo hoo, Vatican! Here's your opportunity to step in and persuade them to drop the charges against Sanal, just to show you have a smidgen of respect left for sanity and justice.

Actually, I am really expecting Vatican's rational response to this outrageous and embarrassing situation.

They would certainly gain points by doing so and show themselves as "sophisticated" and having a capacity for great scrutiny and high standards for discerning "real" "miracles".

That's certainly how they've worked so far.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:54:56 UTC | #934692

littletrotsky13's Avatar Comment 18 by littletrotsky13

Pathetic. What are the indian criteria for blasphemy? Because as far as I can see What he's proved is that this was a "false miracle" (because in the eyes of the church and probably several blasphemy laws these terms are not automatically dependent on each other) and that the local church was incorrect. He hasn't even necessarily claimed that the statements were libelous of all "miracles", so could anyone explain the actual illegality of his actions? However preposturous.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:56:01 UTC | #934693

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 19 by Border Collie

Hey, the boy messed with their potential positive cash flow and you know how the Catholics are about THAT! How sad this is, though. A perfectly rational person thrown in jail because a bunch of church mongers want him silenced. Blasphemy, my ass. Oh, well, I concluded a long time ago that the Dark Ages really never ended.

If I wasn't such a nice guy and concerned about the sensitivities of the religious, I'd say slip a good measure of red dye in up stream and really f*ck with them.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:14:52 UTC | #934697

Metamag's Avatar Comment 20 by Metamag

So, when are we going to see a smidgen of this on CNN, MSNBC or anywhere mainstream?

When are they gonna start calling them militant Catholics?

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:19:45 UTC | #934700

msloane's Avatar Comment 21 by msloane

For chrisakes, all the pope needs to do is tell the Indian bishops to "get real" and withdraw the charges. Surely a court case will be even more damaging to the catholic church when scientific evidence is provided ? Or is it a religious court ?

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:49:53 UTC | #934704

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 22 by Ignorant Amos

I'm recruiting....we need a reason army ffs. When there is this sort of shite to put up with it takes an army to win. Ta fuck with the wishy washy apathetic Atheism of the gurny, accommodationist, fete organising, cake chomping, religion apologists like Spiritual Atheist or nick keighly......give me a break and get a grip of where the sharp end of religious persecution's not in your wee quaint 'love thy neighbour' mid western all-American states.

Here is an honest man, making a honest statement and the religious bastards of the RCC are..allegedly... persecuting him. Any supporter of the RCC, if they didn't know before, they do now, need put against the wall. YOU ARE ALL PART OF THE PROBLEM

This is a fucking disgrace...and I don't mind calling it for what it is....concern trolls need not apply, you are part of the problem too, not the solution...although, I'm guessing this must be a source of embarassment for ya?

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:08:36 UTC | #934707

G*O*D's Avatar Comment 23 by G*O*D

And if CNN, MSNBC are too busy, you Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Colbert, you have crazy good matierial for your shows here. It just has to be known and, as someone said, ridiculed.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:30:56 UTC | #934709

caseyg5's Avatar Comment 24 by caseyg5

I am curious as to how the Catholic church wields so much power in a Hindu majority nation that its nonsense can be entrenched in law. But I get the feeling that it will require a long explanation.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:52:08 UTC | #934712

gizmologic1's Avatar Comment 25 by gizmologic1

Pardon me for saying so but I think some good will come of this. Charging Sanal with blasphemy is likely to do two things: to spread news of this ludicrous situation far wider that if the church had decided to downplay the supposed "miracle" angle and (hopefully) to force the church to admit that no such miracle exists. In the end, whatever happens will surely backfire against the church. I just hope Sanal suffers no harm.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 01:33:45 UTC | #934720

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 26 by Agrajag

Comment 7 by Sample

I would have introduced a dye to the water source for a better experiment.

Only be certain not to use RED dye!
What a circus of buffoons.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 01:55:10 UTC | #934724

Quine's Avatar Comment 27 by Quine

I would suggest yellow, and watch as the kids ask why they won't let Jesus down long enough to use the facilities.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 01:57:01 UTC | #934727

Mbee's Avatar Comment 28 by Mbee

I wonder what would have happened if a local plumber had fixed the leak and then, as if by a miracle the dripping stopped!

Would they have associated the two events and arrested him, or is all this hoopla over the fact it was a skeptic who saw through their so called miracle.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:04:17 UTC | #934729

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 29 by susanlatimer

Comment 27 by Quine

I would suggest yellow, and watch as the kids ask why they won't let Jesus down long enough to use the facilities.

That's perfect. No need to confront them. Nothing would neutralize the sensation of a miracle like yellow liquid running between the toes of Jesus.

Sometimes, a little imagination is more effective than confrontation.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:12:57 UTC | #934732

GoldenRule rules!'s Avatar Comment 30 by GoldenRule rules!

I have written a complaint to our Indian Consulate office here in Australia, and tried to email the police station in Mumbai directly though this address was out of date, so I'll try another way.

Here is the letter:

Dear Sirs

I am writing to show my support for truth, honesty and fairness. These qualities must over-ride fake religious 'miracles' with regard to the arrest of Mr Sanal Edamaruku at Juhu police station yesterday, see:

All well educated citizens of the world know that there have never been these 'miracles'. They always turn out to be silly claims that are used by such as catholics to promote their religion, to boost religious fervour and gain new followers. Then when someone like Mr Edamaruku comes along and exposes the fraud - they claim to have had their 'religious sentiments' hurt!

These religions need to grow up. Grow some maturity, and stop crying foul every time someone actually catches them in a lie. The Indian government should stand up for the people. They should delete all forms of blasphemy law as soon as possible, and free the people from the crushing dictates of religions. The various levels of Indian government would bring an enormous boost of justice to their citizenry by only enacting laws decisions grounded in REASON and FACT and not of the ‘hurt feelings’ of over zealous religious bigots.

Who is running India anyway, the government or religions?

Mr Edamaruku did nothing wrong in exposing this fraud. The catholic church (and other religions) wants to indoctrinate people and find it increasingly difficult to do so in the face of more education and more science over time. That is why they have come to rely on such nonsense as miracles and blasphemy laws. Religiousness in the modern world is collapsing and religions have become increasingly desperate to combat this trend. The world is at a dangerous juncture where even the 2 most opposing religions work to assist each-other in support of blasphemy laws, trying to gain these in the United Nations that is a highly dangerous situation for mankind.

Religions should not have any power at all to enforce respect from anyone.

Respect is not real unless it is given voluntarily, and that will happen when the giver of the respect decides for themselves that the receiver deserves it. This draconian and harmful old fashioned idea that one can demand respect cannot prevail in an educated society. India must decide if it wants to become a modern, happy society or continue to wallow in ignorance and troubles. These laws make inappropriate use of your police force. I hope the Mumbai Police place their own ban on co-operating with these cruel blasphemy laws.

Imagine if it was yourself that investigated this miracle. What would you have done upon discovering it's falsehood? Would you have lied to the people to save your own skin? Your website introduction states " Mumbai Police shall ensure the Rule of Law, enforce the law of the land impartially and firmly without fear or favour, and strive to create a fear free environment ..."

A fear free environment.

Well gentlemen, you can never have a fear free environment with blasphemy laws in place. Blasphemy laws are all about creating fear. Fear to tell the truth. Fear of the churches power. Fear to speak out about the horrible crimes committed by religions in your environment!

Please take a good look at the fear these laws bring into existence. Note how instead of lowering the amount of public suffering, they instead encourage these crazy religions to demand more and more 'religious freedom' at the expense of everyone else's freedom! Every nation needs truly secular government. It is the only way to both stop the religious crimes against humanity and bring world peace from religious violence. The religions of the world need to be told. Note I said 'told'. Not 'negotiated with'. They should retain the 'right' to freedom to practice their religion for themselves as individuals only' to the extent it is in no way forced upon any other individual. They must be firmly told that they DO NOT have the right to demand any political or privileged economic outcomes. Children must have the right to no religion. Parents do not 'own', the minds of their children. Faith schools must be abolished.

Look at the videos of 'child throwing', look at the fear in those little children's eyes and tell yourself they are ok!

When laws are enacted for the purpose of preventing criticism, then FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS LOST.

You have lost your freedom of expression and you need to win it back.

I applaud Mr Edamaruku. I applaud his bravery and his determination. He is a good man and if you allow him to be prosecuted for the crime of telling the truth, then it is you who are guilty, guilty of religious persecution.

I will be following this story closely and reporting the outcomes to as many people and institutions as I can.

I encourage your all Indian government officials regardless of their stature, to educate themselves as to the true horrors religion has inflicted on the world.

Suggested reading:

God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens The God Delusion, by Professor Richard Dawkins The End of Faith, by Sam Harris The Missionary Position, by Christopher Hitchens The Magic of Reality, by Professor Richard Dawkins

Yours in Peace and for freedom

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 03:17:25 UTC | #934740