This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Ultra-Orthodox Jews Rally to Discuss Risks of Internet

Ultra-Orthodox Jews Rally to Discuss Risks of Internet - Comments

Metamag's Avatar Comment 1 by Metamag

Well, ultra-jews are right to be worried.

After all, internet is the place where religions come to die.

Especially something so ultra-ludicrous as their cult. Just look at that picture, I'm really starting to think there should be a push to classify it as mental illness or cognitive ailment.

Tue, 22 May 2012 22:33:25 UTC | #942978

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 2 by aquilacane

Ultra-Jews might all start dressing alike and sounding the same.

Tue, 22 May 2012 22:42:50 UTC | #942980

Elisabeth Cornwell's Avatar Comment 3 by Elisabeth Cornwell

RDF-US is doing all we can to increase the dangers and bring this sort of madness to an end.

It is worthy to note that only men are involved in this protest. Orthodox Judaism is an extraordinarily oppressive institution, and its contempt for women is appalling and glaring (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/world/middleeast/israel-faces-crisis-over-role-of-ultra-orthodox-in-society.html?pagewanted=all). We focus so much on Islam, we neglect the issues surrounding the ultra-orthodox version of Judaism.

Tue, 22 May 2012 22:52:09 UTC | #942984

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 4 by rod-the-farmer

Perhaps they could have had a known atheist, tied to a stake in centre field, over whom they would all pray he/she be struck by lightning. Volunteers, anyone ?

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:02:09 UTC | #942987

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 5 by Border Collie

I want to yell "Batter, up!", but it just doesn't seem to fit.

Painful, just painful. You know, damn, I expect this sort of stupidity from Muslims, but Jews?! Aren't they supposed to be smart?

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:10:26 UTC | #942992

IDLERACER's Avatar Comment 6 by IDLERACER

Amazing that this story appears on the same day as THIS one. These people either have no shame whatsoever, or are completely unaware of the fact that the rest of the world is looking at them in disgust. Yeah, they need to fear the information superhighway alright. Not because it is enticing them, but because it is exposing them!

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:20:32 UTC | #942994

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 7 by mordacious1

Still, Mr. Kobre confirmed that the event would be broadcast live on the Internet,..

Oy vey!

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:36:54 UTC | #943000

papa lazaru's Avatar Comment 8 by papa lazaru

I think they should be more worried about the social enlightenment that could result from exposure to the Internet, free flow of information and other cultures, rather than all the matters of sexual deviancy they seem so obsessed with.

Well, they are ultra-orthodox, they can always retreat to their shell or dig their heads in the sand, they are very good at that.

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:49:25 UTC | #943003

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 9 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

I'd like to think that the women attending the remote viewing (via the internet?) parties weren't paying a blind bit of attention to the rally and were having a good time while the menfolk were out of the way.

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:50:35 UTC | #943004

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 10 by Cook@Tahiti

The first law of any cult is to limit or strictly control engagement with the outside world. It doesn't matter if it's Scientology or North Korea.

Tue, 22 May 2012 23:52:44 UTC | #943005

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 11 by God fearing Atheist

I'm glad the ultra-insane are worried.

Wed, 23 May 2012 00:10:28 UTC | #943012

Zeuglodon's Avatar Comment 12 by Zeuglodon

Comment 10 by Cook@Tahiti

The first law of any cult is to limit or strictly control engagement with the outside world. It doesn't matter if it's Scientology or North Korea.

Kathleen Turner in Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control outlined a list of features that make mental control over a person possible, and restricting engagement with contradictory ideas was on the list. She referenced several case studies, notably the Mao communist state and its methods of dealing with dissent. Interestingly, it was from a Chinese phrase that we get the word "brainwashing", which in the original Chinese language was meant to invoke disease and cleanliness and thus imply that people were "sick in the mind" and needed their brains washed and cleaned.

It's not hard to see why controlling people's engagement with the outside world would be on the list: what you've never encountered you don't know. What you don't know can't challenge what you already think. It's one barrier among many used to protect dogma.

What I find puzzling is why this Jewish community is so keen to demonize something that some of its members admit to using every day. What possible harm do they predict will come of it? Will it lead people to kill others or hurt others? Does it reliably deteriorate the life satisfaction of all those who come into contact with it? And what does that say about their opinion of the rest of us "outsiders", who do use the Internet?

Wed, 23 May 2012 00:22:56 UTC | #943015

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 13 by Alternative Carpark

I despise everything these people stand for.

Does that make me an anti semite?

Wed, 23 May 2012 00:41:40 UTC | #943018

Metamag's Avatar Comment 14 by Metamag

Comment 5 by Border Collie :

You know, damn, I expect this sort of stupidity from Muslims, but Jews?! Aren't they supposed to be smart?

Eh, from where did you get that impression, even mainstream fistikated religious Jews are quite idiotic and anti-scientific.

You should go over to Jerry Coyne's blog, he had a lot of posts about such "spiritual leaders" of Jewish communities.

As to the ultra-jews the only difference between them and taliban are the labels and irrelevant dogma fluff.

It's weird how people can't see that, especially in Israel, which is ironic considering that exactly the same kind of people want them wiped out.

Untamed confused apes, that's all there is.

Wed, 23 May 2012 01:00:37 UTC | #943020

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 15 by Agrajag

I'm afraid any time I hear of ultra-orthodox judaism, I immediately think of THIS. And IIRC, these aren't even ULTRA orthodox...
What do they expect will happen as a result of their rally? Can there be any doubt that YHWH ("Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh."... with the emphasis on the "heh") will shut teh internetz right down?
Steve

Wed, 23 May 2012 01:14:07 UTC | #943023

Metamag's Avatar Comment 16 by Metamag

Comment 15 by Agrajag :

I'm afraid any time I hear of ultra-orthodox judaism, I immediately think of THIS.

Such a horribly primitive superstition, barely above animism.

Wed, 23 May 2012 01:34:03 UTC | #943025

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 17 by xmaseveeve

The internet is the new Tree of Knowledge!

Comment 13, Alternative Carpark,

Does that make me an anti semite?

Most definitely. Just for using up their air. 'Jew eat yet?' (Annie Hall).

Oh my God, you could not make this up. First of all, what a bunch of hideous misogynists. One of them, poor soul, looks inbred. Their brains are certainly inbred and ingrown. God forbid that a shaft of light could reach the festering grey. There may be a seed of humanity in there that they didn't suck out.

The OP,

The rally in Citi Field on Sunday was sponsored by a rabbinical group, Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachane, that is linked to a software company that sells Internet filtering software to Orthodox Jews. Those in attendance were handed fliers that advertised services like a “kosher GPS App” for iPhone and Android phones, which helps users locate synagogues and kosher restaurants.

Oh ha ha ha - now they'll start paying gentiles to push the computer buttons. Any jobs going?

Still, Mr. Kobre confirmed that the event would be broadcast live on the Internet, via a stream available to homes and synagogues in Orthodox communities around the New York area. He said the general public would not be able to gain access, but several unauthorized streams appeared soon after the rally began.

Oh, he he he, simply brilliant. The genie's out of the bottle, suckers! Anyway, you'll never ban Jews from surfing the internet. You buy stuff at the best prices.

Shouldn't they be out stoning schoolgirls?

Wed, 23 May 2012 01:38:23 UTC | #943026

anacoluthon's Avatar Comment 18 by anacoluthon

"Still, many attendees readily conceded that the Internet played a big role in their lives."

"On a No. 7 train headed toward the stadium, several men wearing the clothing of the ultra-Orthodox whipped out smartphones as soon as the subway emerged from the East River tunnel, poking at e-mail in-boxes and checking voice mail messages."

Seriously.

Wed, 23 May 2012 01:38:45 UTC | #943027

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 19 by xmaseveeve

Comment 9,

I'd like to think that the women attending the remote viewing (via the internet?) parties weren't paying a blind bit of attention to the rally and were having a good time while the menfolk were out of the way.

I hope they were on RD.net. Half the men will be terrified in case a woman locates a women's refuge to go to and the whole misogynist nest slithers open. Will a woman be able to use the kosher app while she's menstruating? Oh, I know, let's check what the Old Testament says about it. God, all these tragic, wasted lives.

And why don't the women escape more? How can we help them? Maybe we could try constantly posting links to RD.net on kosher forums and hope that someone gets it between deletions. Do it on a cookery forum - the men will never check there. We need a mole or a good hacker.

They'll soon find that the forbidden fruit of the internet is better than any old apple, especially if they come on 'ere. Nope, you just couldn't make this up. As Metamag says, they're just like fundamentalist Muslims, and yet they want to exterminate each other.

Must be some evil energy that lives in the beards. How do they even eat the chicken soup with those beards? I wish Derren Brown would disguise himself as a speaker, hypnotise the lot of them, and at least we could give them a good shave.

Wed, 23 May 2012 02:11:45 UTC | #943031

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 20 by Border Collie

Metamag ... Where did I get that impression? Oh, I don't know. By observation over my entire life maybe. Disparity in Nobel prizes count between Jews and Muslims, perhaps. I am aware that the ultras are pretty crazy and that, on the surface, they don't appear that different from the Islamic crazies and, in reality, they're probably not. I argue with them all the time on other sites about circumcision of boys, telling them that it's just as ignorant as FGM. They don't like that very much. I don't care. But, you know, in general, I hardly ever think about being blown to bits by Jews and I'm not sure I've ever heard of rabid orthodox Jews flying jetliners into buildings, blowing up buses in the UK or trains in Spain. I get your point, but I think I'll continue to expect stupidity and barbarism from Muslims, but expect a higher level of functioning from Jews, realistic or not. And, I'm not so sure that the only difference between ultras and the Taliban are that minor. I'm incapable of that level of multicultural equivocation, though. Well, maybe ideologically they're not that dissimilar, in a sense, but in behavior, they're vastly different. BTW, I read almost all of Jerry's articles and the accompanying comments every day. I even make a comment once in a while.

Wed, 23 May 2012 02:28:10 UTC | #943034

Sister Chromatid's Avatar Comment 21 by Sister Chromatid

Living after faith just had a great podcast on a former Hassidic Jew.... http://livingafterfaith.blogspot.com/2012/05/hasidic-no-more-episode-62.html

Wed, 23 May 2012 04:41:54 UTC | #943047

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 22 by Vorlund

Its hard to work out which of them is the batshitiest. The ones who order their lives on the old testament, those who order their lives on an appendix which was attached to it for purposes of authenticity or those that order their lives on a plagiarism of both.

Idiots trying to appear fistikiated by arguing over the rules of quidditch while disqualifying their women from the conversation on the grounds that the women are defective! Of the feckin' irony.

Wed, 23 May 2012 05:59:19 UTC | #943054

Vaal's Avatar Comment 23 by Vaal

This is in New York?????

Wed, 23 May 2012 07:26:15 UTC | #943063

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 24 by justinesaracen

Y'know, when I post things like this on FB, I invariably get called an antisemite or a 'hater' by someone. I can't tell you how bloody sick I am of that crap.

Wed, 23 May 2012 08:34:52 UTC | #943070

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 25 by Cook@Tahiti

It's amazing how much Ultra Orthodox Judaism has in common with Wahhabi Islam in Saudi Arabia.

Wed, 23 May 2012 09:16:25 UTC | #943072

Jay G's Avatar Comment 26 by Jay G

At least they had a gathering of 40,000 people and not one report of any violence. I suppose that's something to be happy about.

Wed, 23 May 2012 09:50:05 UTC | #943073

Sample's Avatar Comment 27 by Sample

The last person in the video stated:

The beauty of America is, is that you can have a rally which completely denies what science has demonstrated, completely denies reports that are coming in from psychologists, from educators, from parents, from spouses and that's completely their prerogative as Americans to have a rally that denies all that and where they stick their head in the sand.

Mike

Wed, 23 May 2012 10:15:11 UTC | #943074

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 28 by hungarianelephant

Comment 20 by Border Collie :

Where did I get that impression? Oh, I don't know. By observation over my entire life maybe. Disparity in Nobel prizes count between Jews and Muslims, perhaps. I am aware that the ultras are pretty crazy and that, on the surface, they don't appear that different from the Islamic crazies and, in reality, they're probably not.

But of course, if you're not one of the crazies, life is very different indeed. You're not actually expected to believe any of the religious nonsense - just to follow the rules. Judaism does not require that you switch off your critical faculties when confronted with anything challenging orthodox belief. You can spend the week proving scientifically that burning bushes can't speak, and then turn up for the Sabbath without having to do any real mental gymnastics, let alone worry about being accused of apostasy.

There are quite a few Yiddish epithets for non-Jews, some of them pretty unpleasant, but there is no concept equivalent to "unIslamic", even amongst the die-hard silly-plaits and silly-hats brigade.

Wed, 23 May 2012 10:22:16 UTC | #943076

Roedy's Avatar Comment 29 by Roedy

Pornography is a wonderful thing. No amount of screaming at it will decrease anyone's desire to see it, just enhance curiosity. It attracts everyone, especially those trying to protect everyone else from it.

It ruthlessly exposes the hypocrites, especially Christian hypocrites.

As soon as someone claims they have no attraction I know for certain I am talking to someone would will happily lie to me about other things as well.

Granted, it can harm people, by absorbing too much time or money. It can give people unrealistic expectations in their partners. But this is no excuse for playing holier than thou.

Wed, 23 May 2012 11:09:24 UTC | #943081

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 30 by strangebrew

Still, Mr. Kobre confirmed that the event would be broadcast live on the Internet,.

The self realization is awesomely strong in these ones! Cannot even be bothered to generate enough energy for a head/desk interlude...so fucking tiring!

Comment 17 by xmaseveeve

Shouldn't they be out stoning schoolgirls?

Or dogs possibly?...maybe both on second thoughts!

Comment 18 by anacoluthon

Seriously ?

Do as we say not as we do...

(a famous cornerstone pledge that every single religious order that has ever been...ever is...or ever will be...bases their entire morality around)

I think this is one of those religious thangs were they all see and watch each other circle jerk on their own piousness in front of their fwends'...then go home in righteous mood to surf the internet for nice Jewish gals doing things with kosher cucumbers or similar!

Wed, 23 May 2012 11:52:00 UTC | #943088