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← A Year After the Non-Apocalypse: Where Are They Now?

A Year After the Non-Apocalypse: Where Are They Now? - Comments

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 1 by mordacious1

Jebus was supposed to come back in one generation, then he forgot. Now he's embarrassed to just show up late. He'll look pretty foolish, so he just procrastinates and hopes people will forget he ever promised to come back.

And what do you do with a T-shirt that says the world will end on a specific date? You'd look pretty stupid wearing it after the date has passed. Not that you didn't look stupid wearing it to begin with.

Thu, 24 May 2012 05:08:03 UTC | #943214

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 2 by susanlatimer

Comment 1 by mordacious 1

And what do you do with a T-shirt that says the world will end on a specific date? You'd look pretty stupid wearing it after the date has passed.

You turn it inside out and wear it when you paint the kitchen.

Not that you didn't look stupid wearing it to begin with.

Yeah. It's what you should have done with it in the first place.

Thu, 24 May 2012 05:20:29 UTC | #943216

Macropus's Avatar Comment 3 by Macropus

This is an excellent article - full marks to Tom Bartlett on his energy in pursuing the project. I've tried googling Camping a few times since last October, just to see what excuse he's using now, but the news of his stroke might explain his silence (or perhaps he has finally given up trying to extract cryptic predictions from the rubbish contained in a book of 3rd century Chinese whispers?).

Perhaps the doomsayers should hold their next convention in Athens. At least they'd be at the heart of a real-life apocalypse.

Thu, 24 May 2012 05:34:21 UTC | #943219

Universeman's Avatar Comment 4 by Universeman

I also learned that you don’t have to be nuts to believe something crazy.

I can attest to this fact.

Thu, 24 May 2012 06:13:51 UTC | #943223

Quine's Avatar Comment 5 by Quine

Something that struck me about this article is that there is no difference between Camping's followers and the rest of the religious faithful, except that Camping's found out they were deluded by a fixed date.

Thu, 24 May 2012 06:33:24 UTC | #943225

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 6 by strangebrew

The more committed the clown the more they cannot accept the failure! Their ego and the resultant embarrassment is there but pride and fear continue the obvious deception well past barking, and the more foolish it gets the more self image demands that the they should be right.

So on to the next date because the scripture was not in error but the interpretation overlooked a one, another prime number, or a decimal point.

Are they mentally ill?...well as ill as any dumb self obsessed ignorant cretin looking for a thrill that involves a cult a leader, a saviour, a start again point, a new world order, a life changing, a new day! That by necessity involves a wiping of the slate, or a rebooted Earth, a wipe out of population to leave a whole deserted playground to explore, a chance to do it different, a new beginning, an apocalypse to give the righteous a pre-eminence over all that is left, or a flying saucer to whip them off to a brand new life...away from reality!

Pretty much all variations on a theme that every cult leader/scam artist that has ever been offers unreservedly...

And the more they buy into it the more the siren song swells in volume the more committed and the more they drift away from rationality. Finally the investment in such utter bollix actually overrides the prediction of the bollix, they simply move on to the next one, it is almost an adrenaline rush! And there will always be dimmer bulbs with manipulative skills and the ability to pretend significant patterns in balderdash to follow, as perennial as there is a pope or the terminally socially incompetent display the need and greed for a quick buck!

It is perhaps the fact that Camping 's ministry never returned a penny of donation to the cretins that gave up everything because of his prediction, they never even offered help to the faithful dispossessed not a penny of the fortune that to allowed him to publicize his insanity, to get his 15 mins of fame and line his pockets...to what end, so he could have a stroke...very biblical! A case of Caveat emptor...nah...a case of playing on confirmation bias that was used to scalp the gullible.

He will not be the last...and many other eejits will still line up their check books and wallets looking for their personal Nirvana in spite of not because!

Until it becomes a criminal offence to voluntarily bankrupt yourself or cause bankruptcy in others through the plying and dissemination of patent fucking bullshite!

Thu, 24 May 2012 07:15:43 UTC | #943230

PERSON's Avatar Comment 7 by PERSON

Comment 1 by mordacious1

c.f. the followers of the Great Prophet Zarquon in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe".

what do you do with a T-shirt

"Freed! Nelson Mandela"

Thu, 24 May 2012 07:29:46 UTC | #943233

Metamag's Avatar Comment 8 by Metamag

Comment 6 by strangebrew :

The more committed the clown the more they cannot accept the failure! Their ego and the resultant embarrassment is there but pride and fear continue the obvious deception well past barking, and the more foolish it gets the more self image demands that the they should be right.

I know about Festinger from university days but I always wondered what would shape such a personality that would be able to accept embarrassment and being wrong.

Do you know if there has been any conclusive research done on this?

Thu, 24 May 2012 08:48:23 UTC | #943243

alonthemed's Avatar Comment 9 by alonthemed

I've just scanned through the comments at the end of the original article, and they give an eye opening insight into the minds of the faithful: Basically Camping's lot were deluded but "moderate" religionists are not!

One classic example: "Conviction is one thing but faith must be tempered with common sense. That is what Camping's and Miller's followers both lacked"

If only it were possible to disprove scripture based prophecy on a massive scale, then maybe real common sense may prevail.

Al

Thu, 24 May 2012 08:50:18 UTC | #943244

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 10 by strangebrew

Comment 8 by Metamag

Do you know if there has been any conclusive research done on this?

Seems that there are many research inquiries that touch on this dissociative malady ..but as far as I can tell not specifically on rapture phenomenon as yet!

a comment

similar vein

a political teaser

Not a particularly good selection and all from 'Psychology today' but the last one is an interesting sojourn in the political arena...it might be assumed that the followers of such delusional pomp and circumstance were, or are, right leaning bunnies.

I must admit that comment # 6 is only my take on the situation, I am in no way qualified to declare it as a hard and fast fact just a jaded observation.

But there are remarkable similarities in all these tragic stories...how folk, ostensibly 'normal' will suddenly decide that some spurious and weird random selected scripture from the ass end of some lesser known tract will reveal the greatest catastrophe this world is ever likely to experience...apart from the K/T Extinction Event +/_ 65 million years ago!

There seems to be a high correlation between excessive to compulsive religious beliefs to mild to severe schizophrenia on a continuum...no idea if that is a salient point but certainly there is a mental instability of sorts at work that allows a mind to dismiss rationality and actively revel in the destruction of their own world...Extraordinary really !

And usually god reveals some details personally!

Thu, 24 May 2012 10:21:46 UTC | #943250

Saganic Rites's Avatar Comment 11 by Saganic Rites

One thing I've always wondered about the whole apocolypse / rapture thing; when the dead rise from their graves to receive judgement, how do the remains of the millions of cremated dead, or those whose bodies have been scattered to the four winds by bombs and relic or trophy hunters, etc. put in an appearance? Logically speaking of course, for a pile of ash that was once a 'sin-ridden' human, Hell should hold no fear anyway because the burning's already been done!

Thu, 24 May 2012 11:16:29 UTC | #943253

brighterstill's Avatar Comment 12 by brighterstill

We should make doomsayers get the date tattooed on their foreheads so we can identify them afterwards. It bothers me that people who might otherwise seem reasonable and educated are apparently so easily corrupted.

Thu, 24 May 2012 11:56:32 UTC | #943258

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 13 by strangebrew

Comment 11 by Saganic Rites

One thing I've always wondered about the whole apocolypse / rapture thing

Only one? ;-)

I think the bottom line is that ...it has not really been thought through at all!

I mean what is the point of dossing around on some cloud plucking a harp and singing the praises to jeebus for eternity...is that it...nothing else...fucking pointless...what deity has such a twisted egotistically warped character that requires a cacophony of the dead singing his praises for ever 'n' ever?...apart from the obvious flaw that not every zombie has a singing voice ...half of them are illiterate and most of them were asleep during church services in their previous incarnation anyway?

Where are the lyrics?...on some heavenly appointed iPad with multi terminal access with Steve Jobs conducting the data flow?... Yeah I know Steve was one of the good guys and an Atheist but pragmatically they would probably decide to second the dude cos they got no one else capable of plugging a mouse in let alone running a system.

Rubbing wing tips with the likes of Herr Hitler...cos he never got ex-communicated therefore was never a candidate for the hot house...and Mother Theresa that will probably demand money with menaces! And think of them tele-evangelists and priests that have ascended to argue the toss at the pearly gates?

Seems they are a little superfluous to requirements methinks! Their administrations no longer appropriate!

The whole thing is just wishful childish pathetic escapism from the fear of real mortality...and cowardice from rationality.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:00:29 UTC | #943259

veggiemanuk's Avatar Comment 14 by veggiemanuk

Comment 13 by strangebrew :

The whole thing is just wishful childish pathetic escapism from the fear of real mortality...

For trooooo believers it's a whole lot more, I have a friend that I have cornered a few times with questions about her faith, she 100% believes that SHE will go to heaven and stand NEXT to jesus, even after I explain that there must surley be millions of other people all expecting to stand next to him. SHE still insisted that SHE would be standing right next to him.

I asked her who gets to go to heaven, her answer was a simple 'Those who believe' and she really did mean ANYONE. I questioned her on this about people who commit terrible crimes and she said that so long as they BELIEVE, they too will go to heaven. 'The Kindest people in the world can rot in hell if they dont believe' - Her exact words.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:19:44 UTC | #943262

mr_DNA's Avatar Comment 15 by mr_DNA

Reading up on the Millerites ( think Camping but on a global scale ) some of them had an interesting way of dealing with "the great disapointment".

"Others acted as children, basing their belief on Jesus’ words in Mark 10:15, “Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”" That must have been funny to see. Others shaved their heads and declared it was now a Sabbath so they couldn't ever work again.

The fall out was very similar to what has happened in the wake of Campings failed prediction. They split into three camps. Some of whom thought that God had shut the door to salvation despite the no show. Others thought it was a test of faith and others thought the date was actually an event in heaven not earth.

When people start trying to construct ideas about reality based on cyphers and parables the end result is a collective form of insanity.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:38:30 UTC | #943264

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 16 by SaganTheCat

mordacious1

"And what do you do with a T-shirt that says the world will end on a specific date? You'd look pretty stupid wearing it after the date has passed. Not that you didn't look stupid wearing it to begin with."

au contraire

stupid or not if you know of one of these t-shirts going for sale i'll have it and wear it with pride

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:41:36 UTC | #943265

Naturalist1's Avatar Comment 17 by Naturalist1

I for one was disappointed waking up on May 22, 2011 to discover that all the christians were still here....bummer.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:48:08 UTC | #943267

78rpm's Avatar Comment 18 by 78rpm

I, too, wish I had one. Those T-shirts could become collectors' items. Probably, though, speculators have already snapped up most of the supply. Wouldn't it be fun to attend Sunday services wearing one, the way I wear my 1948 Dewey-Warren campaign button when I go to vote.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:52:36 UTC | #943268

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 19 by Philoctetes

Fools and their money are soon parted. I'm just hoping for some prophet local to me to make similar predictions so that I can have a bet with all his followers. More certain than winning the lottery. This may seem mercenary but life changing chances like this may never occur in a lifetime so it would be churlish not to profit from them. I'm not naturally exploitative but really anyone that stupid deserves to be relieved of all power, influence and support.

Thu, 24 May 2012 12:56:23 UTC | #943269

Hume's Razor's Avatar Comment 20 by Hume's Razor

For once, I would encourage believers to follow their own scripture:

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:20-22

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. Zechariah 13:3

Thu, 24 May 2012 13:26:48 UTC | #943275

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 21 by strangebrew

Comment 14 by veggiemanuk

I asked her who gets to go to heaven, her answer was a simple 'Those who believe' and she really did mean ANYONE. I questioned her on this about people who commit terrible crimes and she said that so long as they BELIEVE, they too will go to heaven. 'The Kindest people in the world can rot in hell if they dont believe'

I have come across similar both in the real world and cyber-space and the depression I feel is not conducive to 'interfaith' dialogue in the slightest. it is one reason I get very testy with apologists and accommodationists.

This mind set...if it can be called that...I think is more a symptom of the piss poor education in matter theological by the clerics. What they deliver to the masses is a vague rambling incoherent morass of subjective and sensational gobbly gook masquerading as tenets of the religion.

So poor are these incomplete and bumbling anecdotes and homilies played by the clerics that the audience is left to piece together the discordant picture the best way they can.

Hence good folk go to hell if they do not believe and bad folk do cos they repent and believe...

It is a device that is supposed to support other creaky parts of their house of cards. In trying to emphasize that forgiveness is a major stick and carrot and that non-believers are destined for hell they end up getting the audience minds tangled up if not sorely and morally confused as to who what or why some folks go North and some South! It is just piss poor vague teaching...and that is the source of this balderdash for sure. Seminary...is not a particularly intellectual pursuit...they prove it over and over again!

The idea seems to be the less the congregation is informed fully and accurately about these matters the better...otherwise no one knows where it might end! Give them no reason to start thinking about it except from the POV of fear and horror... Best to keep the fairy story intact...even if it is a little confused in the delivery.

It seems it is a common and prevalent interpretation, maybe because the last thing the clerical jockies want is for analytical thought to play any part in the construction of the biblical image in the minds of their sheeple. They prefer by far rampant juvenile/childish manipulations and assumptions of the facts to serious theology any day.

I expect that there might be one or two examples where the theology is laid out more or less pertaining to the story line and given some tweaks appearing to deliver a morality in tune with xian teaching...but the mere fact these folk exist with such a stunted and analytical by-pass comes with a chilling thought, they are not in the minority.

In fact it kindda suggests that it is a common and widespread failing by the church and by the public educational system in how to analytically think...cos sure as the sun comes up they will never receive that important mental tool from the religion they are slaved to.

And explains what the religions are doing sniffing at the crack in secular armour that allows religious faith based initiatives into public educational situation. They have intent to deliver twisted and incoherent trash as the trooooooof!!!

Actually they care less about the theology their victims live and breath by and more by the numbers of infected corpses they can claim follow their religion. It is education...but not as we know it!

How sad is that...?

Thu, 24 May 2012 13:28:12 UTC | #943276

pzkrakz's Avatar Comment 22 by pzkrakz

What age were most of the doomsayers thoughout history, I wonder? It seems awfully convenient that Camping was knocking on death's door already.

Makes me wonder: if so many people are willing to financially support religious ideas, perhaps this need to believe in something crazy could be better channeled into a network of theorists, each 'evangelizing' their own TESTABLE (but likely wrong) hypothesis. That said, I suppose in the end Camping's hypothesis was testable, and he later admitted fault (again, for the wrong reasoning...), placing him and his theories above the ilk of the common religions.

Thu, 24 May 2012 13:47:54 UTC | #943279

Luke_B's Avatar Comment 23 by Luke_B

Mordacious 1: I like that idea! I'm tempted to get one printed up stating that the world will end on 21/5/11 complete with a few bibilical quotes. It's good to not let people forget about the nonsense claimed by this preacher. Perhaps it might make them consider the nonsense their preacher tells them.

Thu, 24 May 2012 14:14:28 UTC | #943283

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 24 by Agrajag

Comment 3 by Macropus

I've tried googling Camping a few times since last October, just to see what excuse he's using now, but the news of his stroke might explain his silence (or perhaps he has finally given up trying to extract cryptic predictions from the rubbish contained in a book of 3rd century Chinese whispers?).

He's still around, apparently; praise the Load! A message from Harold was posted on his web site on April 27 (HERE). He's still trying to get others to drink his particular flavor of koolaid. (Sounds like he's lost a few gray cells, though!)
Steve

Thu, 24 May 2012 14:43:35 UTC | #943290

Tony d's Avatar Comment 25 by Tony d

@Comment 24 by Agrajag

Thanks for the Audio clip.I thought that was a good illustration of the madness of religion.The World is bad God is good.Insane religious types just can not wait for it all to end.

Thu, 24 May 2012 15:32:45 UTC | #943293

papa lazaru's Avatar Comment 26 by papa lazaru

I'm gonna have a T-shirt made.

"The World Ends Today".

Let's see if I can gather up a crowd.

          [Comment 16](/articles/646005-a-year-after-the-non-apocalypse-where-are-they-now/comments?page=1#comment_943265) by  [Daniel Clear](/profiles/51034)          :


                 mordacious1"And what do you do with a T-shirt that says the world will end on a specific date? You'd look pretty stupid wearing it after the date has passed. Not that you didn't look stupid wearing it to begin with."au contrairestupid or not if you know of one of these t-shirts going for sale i'll have it and wear it with pride

How about "The World Ends Today Or Tomorrow"?

Thu, 24 May 2012 15:37:27 UTC | #943295

godzillatemple's Avatar Comment 27 by godzillatemple

If it weren't a trademark violation, I'd love to print up a shirt that reads, "It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)."

Thu, 24 May 2012 16:00:06 UTC | #943300

ZenDruid's Avatar Comment 28 by ZenDruid

The only biblical punishment I can agree with is death for false prophets. One can't disrupt lives more than that without actually killing people.

At least, the state should impound all the false prophet's assets.

Thu, 24 May 2012 16:26:50 UTC | #943304

Zeuglodon's Avatar Comment 29 by Zeuglodon

The thing that struck me while I was reading this was that I felt more sympathetic to the cult followers than I thought I would feel. Forget for a moment the fact that many of us here have seen enough media, spoken to enough people, thought about different ideas and had different personal responses to dismiss these cultish ideas as hogswallop. Imagine what the view would be like from a cult followers' life, both before and after. How does this state of affairs happen?

An emotionally inspiring idea comes along, and they look into it, and then find something which, if true, would seriously effect their lives. It's a danger, something momentous happening. But there's hope, and it has a certain social and moral appeal (the salvation aspect). It seems so utterly convincing that it must be true. They haven't experienced anything like it. The worldview increasingly seems to suggest that this is something to be certain about, and they end up sacrificing so much of their time and energy into it. Then the inevitable happens, and the choice is either to get further mired into the beliefs that they're now so emotionally dependent upon or to face up to the trauma of being so completely wrong. People are only as skilled as their psychological processes allow them to be.

It's tempting at this point to say that they brought it on themselves, and this is true. But look at how this process works. The bad ideas are passed around via media (books, Internet, radio, television etc.) and people talking. By definition, their exposure to ideas is limited, and if they get a restricted amount of info then they'll have that little amount to take. Someone suggests looking into a book, and the personality of the person gets them so absorbed into it that it almost becomes an obsession. I'm particularly interested in the paragraph that describes this consumption of attention:

It’s been noted by scholars who study apocalyptic groups that believers tend to have analytical mindsets. They’re often good at math. I met several engineers, along with a mathematics major and two financial planners. These are people adept at identifying patterns in sets of data, and the methods they used to identify patterns in the Bible were frequently impressive, even brilliant. Finding unexpected connections between verses, what believers call comparing scripture with scripture, was a way to become known in the group. The essays they wrote explaining these links could be stunningly intricate.

They also get social recognition, which feels good and which might be confused as them being told that their views are correct (after all, many of us like it when we're right about something). It's basically a psychological trap, and their own minds are working against them.

It might well be that "curing" the most dedicated members is impossible, but it seems a pressing concern is to prevent this scenario from occurring in the first place. I'm not suggesting censorship, heavens no, but I can't help but think that populations of people would benefit more from public media, cultural, and educational systems that promote true or good ideas. By definition, this would entail rejecting many others, but if the result is a more scientifically literate populace and fewer victims of cults, surely this would be a good thing?

Thu, 24 May 2012 17:52:36 UTC | #943322

glenister_m's Avatar Comment 30 by glenister_m

They seem to have avoided the possibility that the rapture did happen, but they didn't make the cut either.

We should set up a website for apocalypse believers. If they think the world is going to end, they can donate all their money through the website (We can call it 'Apocalypse Insurance', while they can call it 'Spiritual Cleansing'). We'll use half of their funds and donate to worthy secular causes (eg. Doctors without Borders).

After the end of the world doesn't happen, if the believer can admit (with some help) that they were deluded, we'll give them the other half of their money back so they can restart their lives. For those that can't accept that they were wrong, their money will be divided among the website supporters (ie. us).

Win-win-win situation. The only losers would be those who don't think they lost.

Thu, 24 May 2012 18:00:50 UTC | #943324