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Violent anti-science anarchists vow to strike again - Comments

msloane's Avatar Comment 1 by msloane

Wonder where they go when they need medical treatment ?

Wed, 30 May 2012 01:39:40 UTC | #944351

lewis.breland's Avatar Comment 2 by lewis.breland

This is just bizarre.

Wed, 30 May 2012 01:57:16 UTC | #944354

Metamag's Avatar Comment 3 by Metamag

"In past centuries science had promised a golden era, but today it is being carried out toward self-destruction and more total slavery,"

LOL, they are confusing radical US-type crony capitalism, which has now become mainstream, with science.

What a bunch of dimwits.

Wed, 30 May 2012 02:15:44 UTC | #944357

Skywatcher_3025's Avatar Comment 4 by Skywatcher_3025

I've always thought, that science is some kind of anarchism.

Wed, 30 May 2012 02:46:29 UTC | #944361

dilated_in_disbelief's Avatar Comment 5 by dilated_in_disbelief

You know, there was a time (I was a teenager) when I shared (more like adopted) the same attitude as these anarchists. I used to be a vegan, pseudo-radical environmentalist type who thought that all forms of direct action, like "rescuing" animals from farms or the actions of that specific ELF led by Danial McGowen, were necessary and that much of technology was ruining the world. Same with science. I was also into a lot of existentialist literature and essays by anarcho-primitivist types like John Zerzan, a guy that goes so far as criticize symbolic language and time. I would buy issues of Earth First, print all sorts of pamphlets or old essays by Bakunin and Emma Goldman, visit this nihilist website called Counter Order, and buy books from this collective called CrimeThInc who produced anarchist manifestos like Days of War, Night of Love. I stopped reading that stuff because I went to music school and chose to focus on that instead. Having gone back and read those ideas, wow, it's remarkably laughable. It's amazing what you can believe about something, like science and technology, when you're utterly incurious about it. I have a friend who is into the radical icon Derrick Jensen. This guy recently came out with a book called Dreams where he attempts to take on materialists like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. The guy is convinced that anyone that tells him that he isn't having contact with real forest spirits in his dreams has bought into the oppressive myths of scientists working on the behalf of capitalism.

I still read that stuff from time to time. I'm more interested in what led me to think that it made sense and why other people still think it does. I do think something can be learned by reading such different perspectives like that, but I rarely agree with any of it. I also like a good argument. I guess it's similar to Steven Pinker's motivation to write a book like The Blank Slate. He was willing to take on attitudes he didn't have to. Some of my friends are becoming anarchists, so I'm willing to give them my time.

Honestly, the visitors of this site might get a kick of the people like Derrick Jensen and John Zerzan. I recommend looking up their videos. Same with black bloc anarchists. They're an entertaining bunch. Total spontaneous individuals!

Wed, 30 May 2012 02:49:45 UTC | #944362

All About Meme's Avatar Comment 6 by All About Meme

"The science-technology pairing has never been at the service of humanity, and in its deepest essence it shows the imperative need to eliminate everything that is irrational, to dehumanise, to annihilate, to effectively destroy humanity."

If the words in bold are code for "eliminating religion", then I suppose the answer to that accusation is "Guilty as charged". If by "irrational" they mean eliminating Marvel comic books, then the answer is "You're off your collective rockers."

Wed, 30 May 2012 03:01:57 UTC | #944365

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 7 by Neodarwinian

These people make creatards look downright tame!

The obverse side of the same coin.

Wed, 30 May 2012 03:04:53 UTC | #944368

AtheistAtItsBest's Avatar Comment 8 by AtheistAtItsBest

Guess what ! Science gave these anarchists the 'science' of making bombs !

Wed, 30 May 2012 03:31:31 UTC | #944377

dilated_in_disbelief's Avatar Comment 9 by dilated_in_disbelief

It's also important to know that these folks really are against industrialized civilization. They think it would be better to live like indigenous tribes. Here is a book that people like these anarchists read:

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Green-Resistance-Strategy-Planet/dp/1583229299/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338347375&sr=1-1

One of the authors, Derrick Jensen, actually responded to the author of a 2-star review on Amazon. This statement is more about feminism and masculinity, but one of the authors of the books thinks that all men should have vasectomies:

"Men, as a class, beat women, as a class. Women, as a class, do not beat men as a class. yes it happens once in a while, but the overwhelming majority of cross-gender violent crimes are committed by men against women, not the other way around. And the definition of masculinity in this book is not based on innate maleness: there have been plenty of non-patriarchal cultures where masculinity has not been defined as it is in this current patriarchal culture. In this culture masculinity is defined by declaring others (women, children, other races, other cultures, nonhumans, the earth) as inferior, and therefore as violable, and then by violating them. For men under this patriarchy, these acts of violating others are how we become who we are. They validate who we are. They then reaffirm who we are, as through these repeated acts of violation we come to perceive each new violation as reinforcement not only of our superiority over this other we violated but as simply the way things are. Thus the rapes. Thus the violation of every boundary set up by every indigenous culture. Thus the extinctions. Thus the sending of probes to penetrate the deepest folds of the ocean floor. Thus the bombing of the moon."

from http://www.amazon.com/review/R2PI7BV7OVMH74/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1583229299&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful

Wed, 30 May 2012 04:00:22 UTC | #944385

Anvil's Avatar Comment 10 by Anvil

Thus the sending of probes to penetrate the deepest folds of the ocean floor...

Yeah, bastards - I'll never forgive them for that!

... Thus the bombing of the moon."

Is this a reference to Iron Sky???

Anvil.

Wed, 30 May 2012 08:45:48 UTC | #944416

Micmac274's Avatar Comment 11 by Micmac274

^Possibly, or they think the lunar lander created clouds of smoke, which was debunked on the episode of QI on last night.

I need modern medicine to survive. People like that are a threat to my very existence, if anybody important started listening to them.

Wed, 30 May 2012 08:54:04 UTC | #944421

Sinister Weasel's Avatar Comment 12 by Sinister Weasel

It always puzzles me when individuals or groups try to make their stand in the most difficult parts of the world. If Muslims want sharia law, there are many countries that they would be very happy in yet many target Europe, if these people want to live like ancient tribes then there are many that still exist in Africa and South America. So why do they attempt the impossible task of devolving a country like Italy? It seems to me that these people want others to live their chosen way of life more than they want to live it themselves. Personally I agree that the world would be a better place if humanity remained primitive, but the situation we have now requires more technology to fix. Or as I say for almost any argument such as this, reducing the human population would solve most if not all of our problems

Wed, 30 May 2012 09:49:15 UTC | #944426

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 13 by strangebrew

Stinks like pretentious codswollop.

Wed, 30 May 2012 09:58:40 UTC | #944428

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 14 by Alan4discussion

Comment 3 by Metamag

LOL, they are confusing radical US-type crony capitalism, which has now become mainstream, with science

That could well explain this:-

Mexican connection.

There is also plenty of "criminal-capitalism" going on across the border!

Third world countries are also watching the US bully others with high-tech weapons, and also their arming of corrupt regimes or those fermenting civil wars, - so the distinction between science, militarism, politics, and capitalism is not very clear-cut from their view-point.

Wed, 30 May 2012 10:49:59 UTC | #944439

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 15 by Alan4discussion

Comment 10 by Anvil

... Thus the bombing of the moon."

Is this a reference to Iron Sky???

I think they are referring to this: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCROSS -
Centaur impacted successfully on October 9, 2009, at 11:31 UTC. The Shepherding Spacecraft descended through Centaur's ejectate plume, collected and relayed data, impacting six minutes later at 11:37 UTC.

LCROSS was designed to collect and relay data from the impact and debris plume resulting from the launch vehicle's spent Centaur upper stage (and data collecting Shepherding Spacecraft) striking the crater Cabeus near the south pole of the Moon.

It was successful in discovering water ice in the southern lunar permanently shadowed crater Cabeus.

Together, LCROSS and LRO form the vanguard of NASA's return to the Moon, and are expected to influence United States government decisions on whether or not to colonize the Moon.

Wed, 30 May 2012 11:05:32 UTC | #944441

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 16 by Stafford Gordon

Antediluvian troglodytes.

Wed, 30 May 2012 11:34:38 UTC | #944452

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 17 by drumdaddy

It's time to kick some DUMB ass! Hard!

Wed, 30 May 2012 11:45:09 UTC | #944459

old-toy-boy's Avatar Comment 18 by old-toy-boy

Sorry, but I feel most of the comments seem to be reactionary rather than reasoned response. I could not find any direct indication that these "terrorists" are against-science directly but rather the application of science when used to against the common good. Or have I got this wrong?

It is so easy for 'capitalism' to create the straw-man argument that is is an attack against science, and this seems to be such a case.

The story did not say that the nuclear boss was shot because he was a scientist, perhaps he was shot because he was in charge of a nuclear company. It is well known that the nuclear industry is potentially catastrophic, and financially indefensible if they were required to clean up their own mess. So far it appears they have little intention of dealing with the waste problem, other than dumping it in a third world country. Don't believe me? look at the history of the tobacco and asbestos industry, The Bopal disaster in India, the oil spill in the Mexican gulf, plastic bags floating around in the pacific ocean. Same applies to nanotechnology, Sure, it has great potential for good and bad. Trouble is, greed (under the guise of capitalism) does not give a damn. I know this sounds like a rant but human society is not yet mature enough to deal with nuclear power, nanotechnology, genetics etc, Lets face it, most of the human race is still has problems embracing the basic concept of equality.

Wed, 30 May 2012 12:44:37 UTC | #944476

Odalrich's Avatar Comment 19 by Odalrich

Anarchism was one of the movements that promoted rational education in the Spain of the early XX century and now we see that in Italy and elsewhere they are behaving like anti-science religious zealots, but still using the language of class struggle. I think this is the typical sign of the times we live in: total mental and intellectual confusion.

Wed, 30 May 2012 14:21:02 UTC | #944507

Don Quijote's Avatar Comment 20 by Don Quijote

@18 old-toy-boy;

Are you saying then it is OK to shoot somebody because they work for a nuclear company?

Wed, 30 May 2012 17:08:10 UTC | #944551

Sharpur's Avatar Comment 21 by Sharpur

Comment 12 by Sinister Weasel :

Personally I agree that the world would be a better place if humanity remained primitive, but the situation we have now requires more technology to fix. Or as I say for almost any argument such as this, reducing the human population would solve most if not all of our problems

Better in what sense or for whom? If you want to be a hunter-gatherer or a subsistence farmer go ahead. Frankly, labouring from dawn to dusk just to eat; riddled with disease and parasites; to die of old age - if I'm lucky - by the time I'm 45 does not seem 'better' to me.

I always find it strange that eco-extremists like this who want us to go back to the Stone Age (though knapped flints are technology too) are never keen on being among the 90+% of humanity who would have to die to make this possible. If they genuinely believe that animals, plants and rocks are somehow superior to human beings, who should be eliminated for the greater good, the logical course is for them to kill themselves. Or at the very least go for those vasectomies dilated_in_disbelief refers too. Of course those procedures should involve the minimum of nasty science and technology. So, no anaesthesia or antisepsis just a batty old woman with a piece of broken glass, like female circumcision in Africa.

Wed, 30 May 2012 23:17:50 UTC | #944658

dilated_in_disbelief's Avatar Comment 22 by dilated_in_disbelief

I realize that I made a reference to forced vasectomies, but didn't follow it up with the right quote. Well, that quote is still reflective of the ideas in these ideologies. As for the drastic deaths that would entail an overthrow of industrialized civilization, every time I've heard these people get asked about the human cost, they side-step the question. It makes you wonder how much people take the modern world for granted.

Thu, 31 May 2012 01:22:08 UTC | #944680

Paul the Pretentious's Avatar Comment 23 by Paul the Pretentious

Science is a method, not an entity. It's a way to look at the world and a way to answer questions. To quote Carl Sagan, "Science delivers the goods". People are accountable for the way science is used--specifically, scientists.

These people feel jilted and angry and want to hold something, somebody, accountable; so they blame science. I have a distinct feeling that none of them could tell you how the scientific method actually works, or any contemporary scientific discoveries. They despise science because they don't understand it.

That or they're just morons.

Thu, 31 May 2012 06:08:41 UTC | #944702

Quine's Avatar Comment 24 by Quine

Reminds me of something from "The Sheep Look Up."

Thu, 31 May 2012 06:35:47 UTC | #944705

PERSON's Avatar Comment 25 by PERSON

Kafka? I must have missed the one about the daft anarchists. Wasn't he more about the insanity of institutions?

Thu, 31 May 2012 07:33:49 UTC | #944712

Sharpur's Avatar Comment 26 by Sharpur

Comment 22 by dilated_in_disbelief I realize that I made a reference to forced vasectomies, but didn't follow it up with the right quote. Well, that quote is still reflective of the ideas in these ideologies.

That whole Derrick Jensen quote set off alarm bells with me. Never trust a self-declared 'male feminist'. (It's a well tried tactic for getting impressionable young women into bed for a start.) That whole 'men are like this and do that' sexist generalisation coming from a man, always reeks of hypocrisy and special pleading to me. You can't be a lesbian-separatist Derrick. If you don't like the idea of men mistreating women, don't be that kind of man. It's a far more useful approach than spouting nonsense.

Thu, 31 May 2012 17:41:24 UTC | #944786