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← [Update] How Christian fundamentalists plan to teach genocide to schoolchildren

[Update] How Christian fundamentalists plan to teach genocide to schoolchildren - Comments

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 1 by Premiseless

Since "ungodly": refers in the first instance to rejection of their own "delusion" of a totalitarian dictator posing as the invisible man: might refer in the second instance, as tenuously linked to rejection of anyones memeology who professes any invisible man following whatsoever; defaults in the third instance with this xenophobic scripture propaganda to be applied to the most rational amongst the human race whom also likely include the most humanitarian thinkers on planet Earth.

You would be horrified to know the position believers minds are being sullied into, by applying scriptures as universal authority over all human thought and as an encoding some ultimate intellect; messaging them about the victimhood they might feel is their life suffering, thereby branding all out group thinkers in opposition to this absolutely corrupt afterlife judiciary. Only in death can belief be undone; is the meme at play absent all reason. Reason branded the archenemy is how these charlatans got this wedge in the human meme chain in the first place.

Wed, 30 May 2012 16:25:00 UTC | #944538

Stonyground's Avatar Comment 2 by Stonyground

Due to the rather haphazard way that the Bible is put together, a straight read-through has the Amelekites repeatedly popping up and having to be exterminated over and over again. At one point God, being infinitely wise presumably, says that he will wipe out all remembrance of Amalek from under heaven, and then says make sure that you write that bit down.

As for teaching children that mass murder is justified on religious grounds, these people disgust me.

Wed, 30 May 2012 18:11:04 UTC | #944569

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 3 by strangebrew

You think that they must have hit the bottom of the barrel, always, and I mean always, to be informed that is not quite so, there seems to be a ways to go as yet!

I cannot even summon outraged rant, a very peculiar and rare occurrence is that.

This is what they have always wanted to do, it is a xian wet dream.

Access to a class full of young trusting naive wide eyed innocent faces, a bible, and time. Put the pant pissing fear of god into the kiddies they are yours for life.

And the authorities being so riven and awestruck by religious respect, stand meekly aside and let the famished great white shark of god's hatred into the kiddie swimming pool without let or hindrance.

Maybe the greatest betrayal of all, I am not sad or angry, just disappointed that school boards are so cowardly ready and willing to herd their young impressionable charges into abject slavery misery and sacrifice so cheaply...some kiddies will suffer unnecessary guilt and anxiety for the rest of their natural lives...it is simply legalised child abuse... is it actually legal? ...it is certainly an abomination those involved should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves...again where are the 'moderates'...rather conspicuous by their absence.

That's all until I recover my rant bone!

Wed, 30 May 2012 18:14:19 UTC | #944570

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 4 by Alan4discussion

There are plenty of films following this "morality"

There are "goodies" whose violent actions are justified as a means to an end, because they are "goodies" exterminating "baddies" who have to be exterminated because they are "bad".

These come in various flavours; War films, Cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, spies who are goodies (James Bond) against "evil" world corporations and powers. Basically "us" & "them" with violence against "them" being "good" and violence by "them" being "evil"!!

Wed, 30 May 2012 18:45:27 UTC | #944576

paulmcuk's Avatar Comment 5 by paulmcuk

Maybe I'm being optimistic but I think this could backfire on them. There will be plenty of students (and parents) who rebel at such teachings. Formally coming out as genocidal fundementalists is not something it is easy to take back and it opens them up to the challenge and scrutiny that more subtle messages are seemingly exempt from.

Wed, 30 May 2012 19:24:57 UTC | #944586

brighterstill's Avatar Comment 6 by brighterstill

the Good News Club, an after-school program sponsored by a group called the Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF). The aim of the CEF is to convert young children to a fundamentalist form of the Christian faith and recruit their peers to the club.

How is this legal?

Wed, 30 May 2012 20:48:06 UTC | #944611

jez999's Avatar Comment 7 by jez999

Comment 6 by brighterstill :

the Good News Club, an after-school program sponsored by a group called the Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF). The aim of the CEF is to convert young children to a fundamentalist form of the Christian faith and recruit their peers to the club.

How is this legal?

It's not; but a majority of the US Supreme Court are FUBAR religious pricks who would really quite like to do away with the 1st Amendment, so they make an absurd decision that teaching religious morality doesn't count as religion. There's not much protection against this - the founding fathers presumably never envisaged a Supreme Court so full of people who are so vehemently against the fundamentals of the Constitution.

Wed, 30 May 2012 21:51:57 UTC | #944633

xsjadolateralus's Avatar Comment 8 by xsjadolateralus

How is it not glaringly obvious that the Nazis were Xtians, just doing the god's good work, ridding the world of those evil jews, who after all killed Jesus...

This is how they are making the Nazi v.2.0

Feed them Fox news and other propaganda and soon they will be ripe for the next genocide. Guess who is to blame this time? The atheists! Of course they are the source of the world's problems.

People think we are out of the woods when it comes to witch trials and genocide. I don't think we're so lucky. Hopefully we can stop this from ever happening again, but like one of the survivors of the Oslo attack said "It will happen again, because we don't take it serious enough".

It will happen again because we don't take it serious enough. Just echoing his words.

Thu, 31 May 2012 00:17:56 UTC | #944671

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 9 by Alan4discussion

Comment 8 by xsjadolateralus

How is it not glaringly obvious that the Nazis were Xtians, just doing the god's good work, ridding the world of those evil jews, who after all killed Jesus...

Of course they were! You only have to look at the religious/political crosses! - http://nobeliefs.com/mementoes.htm

Thu, 31 May 2012 09:17:09 UTC | #944727

PERSON's Avatar Comment 10 by PERSON

This can't possibly a problem. Christian OK or even good, Muslim bad. Our society is based on a history of Christianity, and that has never produced genocide, has it? Except a few crazy people, but they were acting alone, or completely different from real Christians, or something.

The supreme court is the US' House of Lords, except with far, far more power and a more Byzantine mechanism by which political stooges are installed.

Thu, 31 May 2012 09:28:24 UTC | #944729

DanDare's Avatar Comment 11 by DanDare

In the majority opinion that opened the door to Good News Clubs, supreme court Justice Clarence Thomas reasoned that the activities of the CEF were not really religious, after all. He said that they could be characterized, for legal purposes, "as the teaching of morals and character development from a particular viewpoint".

Really? The US is doomed with dickheads like that in your highest positions in the legal system. Of course its not very good here in Oz either. The Good News Clubs are part of the Child Evangelism Fellowship and we have them all over the place here. http://cmn.org.au/files/2012/05/tce1flyer1.pdf

Thu, 31 May 2012 14:06:53 UTC | #944749

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 12 by Vorlund

Time perhaps for some reverse psychology? Instead of 'there's probably no god' campaigns how about a 'This is what god wants campaign' with a list of horrors and explicit biblical reference under it. Then the punch line: Is this the god you worship?

Thu, 31 May 2012 15:32:13 UTC | #944766

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 13 by Mr DArcy

I'm sure William Lane Craig approves of these so-called "Good News Clubs"!

The "good news" is that you can and must slay non-believers! Bloody brilliant! No wonder Christianity is losing its influence among the more advanced countries, - including the USA.

The next trick will be to teach the kids walking on water, and after that how to curse a fig tree out of season for not bearing fruit. Disney couldn't have made it up!

Thu, 31 May 2012 19:15:32 UTC | #944814

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 14 by Border Collie

Does Katherine have the guts to write a similar article about Islam?

Thu, 31 May 2012 19:20:39 UTC | #944815

brighterstill's Avatar Comment 15 by brighterstill

"Good news everyone: Genocide!"

Thu, 31 May 2012 19:23:26 UTC | #944817

bluebird's Avatar Comment 16 by bluebird

..stealth assault

Yes, alarmingly insidious

Lately I've noticed church banners advertising Vacation Bible School. Oh, if only there was a way to beam those young children to Camp Quest, instead.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 14:09:31 UTC | #944972

johnpdeever's Avatar Comment 17 by johnpdeever

To jez999 you need to read Stewart's book and learn exactly why these churches on school property ARE legal, under the current Supreme Court.I highly recommend her book to everybody. These Good News Clubs are infiltrating our public schools especially in big cities like New York, and they have the law behind them. Reluctant schools were forced to accept them by court order. Read the book!

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:17:31 UTC | #944992

TrickyDicky's Avatar Comment 18 by TrickyDicky

Comment 10 by PERSON :

" Our society is based on a history of Christianity, and that has never produced genocide, has it? "

I assume you are joking!

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:49:59 UTC | #944997

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 19 by Stafford Gordon

It's always been obvious that Hitler was not an atheist.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:39:48 UTC | #945009

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 20 by strangebrew

Comment 19 by Stafford Gordon

It's always been obvious that Hitler was not an atheist.

It is an easy uncomplicated straight forward fact backed up by his own words.

It astounds me that the religious do not understand it...are they really that thick...or just that desperate?

If the former they have no right to dictate morality...if the latter...they have no right to dictate respect or morality!

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 17:14:03 UTC | #945015

Zeuglodon's Avatar Comment 21 by Zeuglodon

I wonder if this is some kind of cultural Stockholm Syndrome. The deity from the bible is your worst nightmare: a dictator that has a huge amount of power, dishes out vicious punishments, and can't be removed from the seat of power ever. It punishes you for even thinking of opposing. The followers can't live in total fear, so they convince themselves that living under such a dictator isn't that bad... in fact, it's a good thing... no, the best thing ever. Before deluding others, they've gone to great pains to delude themselves.

It's sad to think many of them will never learn that reality is not like that, that there is no monstrous superpowerful dictator governing them, and that this book they hold as the ineffable truth is in fact contradictory to the overwhelming evidence provided by science and history (and by its own lights poor value as evidence).

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 17:17:04 UTC | #945017

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 22 by strangebrew

Comment 21 by Zeuglodon

Reminds me of North Korea and the faux mourning when the last prat went toes up!

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 17:19:30 UTC | #945018

AlGarnier's Avatar Comment 23 by AlGarnier

If the Christian morals are allowed in public schools then the morals of all other faiths, Muslim, Jewish, Hindi, Atheism, etc. should run side by side with Chistian values. One for all, all for one! The "one" being the State. This is a democracy.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 18:44:35 UTC | #945037

Linda Ward's Avatar Comment 24 by Linda Ward

Matt Seaton of the Guardian re: the correction on this piece(1 June 2012 7:31PM, page 27):

I edited the final par simply because I felt it offered a bit of a blizzard of questions, which slightly clouded the central issues already illuminated by the piece. The cut was intended to keep a clarity of focus.

I am pretty sure that this edit was made before publication, not post; so I don't think you could be getting that text from a cached early version (indeed, you don't). We do occasionally make editorial changes post-publication – usually to correct typographical or factual errors, or to update the article; but our practice is to place an endnote acknowledging the amendment or alteration. It is just conceivable that I hit 'publish', and then had second thoughts, and immediately made a further edit, without noting it; but I think I would remember doing so.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 18:55:25 UTC | #945042

AlGarnier's Avatar Comment 25 by AlGarnier

I agree that there should be a program offered in public schools that looks at the validity of all religions, with an opportunity for all students and religious instructors to debate the legality of religious moral values being taught in our public schools.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:02:47 UTC | #945045

Sharpur's Avatar Comment 26 by Sharpur

Comment 14 by Border Collie :

Does Katherine have the guts to write a similar article about Islam?

Who are you and what have you done with Border Collie? Seriously, this is a response I'd expect from CEF themselves. We're all aware that the Koran contains plenty of 'kill the infidels' material and that this is propagated via some madrassas, even in the West, but no one - to my knowledge - is openly campaigning to put such garbage into the US school system, with Supreme Court approval. We're all aware too that public criticism of Islam is somewhat more dangerous than criticising Christianity - though that seems likely to change if a generation of American children are left to the mercy of the CEF. Finally, this is a case of what I call the 'yes but X is even worse' argument. Perhaps there's proper name for it? (Someone tell me if there is.) Anyway, it's invalid.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:17:29 UTC | #945050

Zeuglodon's Avatar Comment 27 by Zeuglodon

Comment 26 by Sharpur

Finally, this is a case of what I call the 'yes but X is even worse' argument. Perhaps there's proper name for it? (Someone tell me if there is.) Anyway, it's invalid.

The Appeal To Worse Problems.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:34:24 UTC | #945059

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 28 by Agrajag

Comment 12 by Vorlund

Time perhaps for some reverse psychology? Instead of 'there's probably no god' campaigns how about a 'This is what god wants campaign' with a list of horrors and explicit biblical reference under it. Then the punch line: Is this the god you worship?

A good supplementary text here would be Steve Wells's "DRUNK WITH BLOOD- God's killings in the Bible". I can recommend it as an instructive and amusing account of the madcap misadventures of the Load in his less benevolent moments... all too frequent... in the Good Book.

I noticed that Steve donated the contents of his "Skeptic's Annotated Bible, Qur’an, and Book of Mormon" to the SCRIPTURE PROJECT on the Project Reason web site. Well done!
Steve

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:12:40 UTC | #945093

78rpm's Avatar Comment 29 by 78rpm

Comment 12 by Vorlund

Time perhaps for some reverse psychology? Instead of 'there's probably no god' campaigns how about a 'This is what god wants campaign' with a list of horrors and explicit biblical reference under it. Then the punch line: Is this the god you worship?

I've always wanted to see this sort of thing. I don't think anything being done in the way of presenting our way of thinking is as good.

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:20:56 UTC | #945099

Roedy's Avatar Comment 30 by Roedy

[Link to own website removed by moderator]

Jehovah does almost nothing else in the old testament but demand genocide of some group or other. He is totally into group punishment. He is modeled on someone like Genghis Khan.

To me Jehovah is clearly a demonic figure, not a god. How can Christians fail to notice this? The assertion that he is the god of the entire universe is pathetically stupid. This bird is more partial than an Arsenal football fan.

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."

~ Isaac Asimov 1920-01-02 1992-03-06

Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:04:27 UTC | #945121