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Dr Oz and the never-ending infomercial - Comments

silentbutler's Avatar Comment 1 by silentbutler

"The Intersectin of Science, medicine, and Culture"

Sounds like everyday of my life.

he leaps from hints gleaned in the laboratory to strong clinical recommendations...he promotes dubious, hyperbolic, and counterfactual health information, he paints himself into an ugly corner previously reserved for hucksters, geeks, and carnies"

I like this author. And isn't it always that way, hints gleaned in the laboratory? You can thank the media for that, and it comes served in the form of "A recent groundbreaking study". Recent and groundbreaking are two very suspicious words.

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 16:53:01 UTC | #945718

DefenderOfReason!'s Avatar Comment 2 by DefenderOfReason!

I utterly dispise this man. As a doctor he should know better than to propagate all this nonsense. And being that he does indeed have the title of doctor so many people follow his every word as if it's fact. He should be ashamed of what he has become!

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 18:41:40 UTC | #945733

blitz442's Avatar Comment 3 by blitz442

Given the source of Dr. Oz’s “crash diet”, we need to examine the details.>

I am 99% sure that any weight loss claim that promises significant results in only a week is in P.T. Barnum territory in terms of its veracity and should not be taken seriously.

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 19:16:33 UTC | #945734

Metamag's Avatar Comment 4 by Metamag

Comment 2 by DefenderOfReason! :

I utterly dispise this man. As a doctor he should know better than to propagate all this nonsense. And being that he does indeed have the title of doctor so many people follow his every word as if it's fact. He should be ashamed of what he has become!

In my country when a doctor makes a foolish/incorrect statement a medical organization officially issues a statement that corrects it and is reported on national TV.

Has that happened in US?

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 19:33:08 UTC | #945739

TeraBrat's Avatar Comment 5 by TeraBrat

Comment 3 by blitz442 :

Given the source of Dr. Oz’s “crash diet”, we need to examine the details.>

I am 99% sure that any weight loss claim that promises significant results in only a week is in P.T. Barnum territory in terms of its veracity and should not be taken seriously.

I suspect it works on paper but not in reality. There are ways to temporarily lose weight quickly. They never last long term. They are also detrimental to your health. "Dr." Oz better have a really good lawyer.

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 19:53:58 UTC | #945746

blitz442's Avatar Comment 6 by blitz442

Comment 5 by TeraBrat

For whatever reason, it seems particularly easy in the realm of diet/exercise for con artists to separate people from their money.

Back in college, I worked at a gym as a personal trainer. The owner of the gym was a former lifter of some repute who had developed a reputation for helping average joes achieve rather impressive levels of strength in very short periods of time. In fact, part of my motivation for working there was to learn about the secret sauce and apply it to my own training. After a few weeks of working with some easy clients, the owner pulled me aside and explained that he wanted to start me off on some of the “frustrated lifters”, as he called them, and he then proceeded to lay out exactly how he wanted them trained. Basically, the program consisted of brief sessions of partial repetitions with very heavy weight, and - this was vitally important - the trainer’s hands were always on the bar while the client was lifting heavy. In other words, you were doing half of the lifting for the client, under the guise of being a responsible spotter.

As it worked out, the program was an ingenious con. The greatly decreased range of motion allowed the lifter to use much greater poundages, tapping into the ego of average joe. The heavier weights and slow, grinding tempo of the lifts produced crippling soreness. This both convinced the lifter that they were really “breaking down the muscles” and also allowed the owner to hawk all manner of overpriced recovery aids, energy drinks, and protein powders. It also kept the workouts brief and got the clients in and out of the gym quickly. At least once a week, the owner would grab one of the clients, wrap them up in lifting gear and throwing them under several hundred pounds of iron and have them move it a few inches with the assistance of several spotters, all the while having the staff whooping and hollering and cheering the guy on.

All of this nonsense was supported by a methodology he called “Power Factor Training”. There was a grain of truth to this type of training (for instance, partial reps are occasionally used by advanced trainers), but the rest of it was self-sustaining pseudoscience and unchallenged assertions. And once people really invested themselves in it, they did not seem capable of questioning it. One would think that at some point, a client would want to try a lift without a spotter to see if he had really gotten stronger, but as far as I know this never happened. I mean, who is going to contradict the ex-lifter who was roughly the size of a bus? I remember one instance where a new client did openly question the owner as to how on earth moving a weight a few inches is better than moving it through a full range of motion. The owner replied that “contortionists, the athletes most capable of moving their limbs through a full range of motion, are actually some of the least muscular people around. Is that what you want???” Everyone seemed satisfied with this answer, but even my 19 year old brain could see the fault in that logic.

In a candid and self-congratulatory moment, the owner openly admitted to some of us that he would never train that way himself and that most of what he was saying was complete BS. So why lie to people? Because for everyone except the freaks, getting significantly stronger or fitter requires some knowledge and consistent, patient application over many months and years, which therefore guarantees that most people will fail in this endeavor. This owner had identified a niche of discouraged, desperate people who were willing to suspend their critical faculties in exchange for quick results, and in the competitive world of fitness management, it was too tempting to pass up.

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 21:36:01 UTC | #945767

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 7 by Tyler Durden

So why has he gone off the deep end of imaginary medicine?

Oprah.

Tue, 05 Jun 2012 23:39:18 UTC | #945779

raytoman's Avatar Comment 8 by raytoman

It's easy to lose significant weight in a short time.

Without drinking any liquids and simply eating your normal intake of food, you would lose several kilos in a couple of days. Reason - your body will become dehydrated (ok for a day or 3 but we need to drink every 4 days at least to avoid damage to our system.

By eating just protein and fat and drinking just water, you can lose several kilos in a week. Reason - protein and fat are very filling and your body, used to mainly carbohydrate fuel, will deplete your sugar reserves (ok for a few weeks (The Atkins Diet) but you need the nutrients and metals available through plants (carbohydrates) which is why the Atkins diet requires to introduce these slowly to manage ketosis and increase them to a level that prevents ketosis but enables weight maintenence when the required weight is reached.

Just giving up sugary drinks and candy/sweets/lollies will immediately prevent weight gain and will cause weight loss within a few days). Reason, like Alcohol, refined sugar is really just calories with no nutrients (this is a great recipe for weight loss and a lifestyle that enables easy weight control - problem is you need some self discipline and fat people have limited amounts of this since food can become an addiction. Just like Tobacco, Sugar is a killer, but the manufacturers have great advertising and great lobbyists and get them hooked young.

Don't know anything about Alice in Wonderland Characters but quick weight loss is possible . Safe and permanent weight loss is possible but requires a modicum of self discipline and exercise helps.

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 00:33:01 UTC | #945783

Sample's Avatar Comment 9 by Sample

blitz442,

Fascinating story.

...getting significantly stronger or fitter requires some knowledge and consistent, patient application over many months and years, which therefore guarantees that most people will fail in this endeavor.

That reminded me of this Mitchell & Webb comedy video. The "nutritionist" is presented with a skeptical customer so his "colleague" pulls out the big guns and tells him to "Charge her top dollar for the most ridiculous personal diet plan that no human could ever stick to and live, that way either she dies or she can't complain because she didn't stick to her plan; and make sure to tell her those loads of fat in crisps, it's irrelevant but it is at least true."

They have another vid on homeopathy that is superb and I know it's made the rounds in this forum before.

Mike

P.S. hopefully I fixed the link

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 09:25:51 UTC | #945830

locka's Avatar Comment 10 by locka

Oprah Winfrey is to blame. Dr Oz was wheeled out as Oprah's "expert" doctor but over time he has devoted more time to reiki, psychic healing, miracle diets and assorted other new age drivel. I assume that is because the sort of people who watch these shows simply aren't interested in boring evidence based medicine.

Doubtless it's been very profitable for him to cross over into quackery but it doesn't say much for his ethics or medical reputation. If he is "respected" I doubt much of that respect comes from his peers. I wonder what would happen if Dr Oz were practicing in the UK. Would he have been struck off by now?

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:18:06 UTC | #945871

blitz442's Avatar Comment 11 by blitz442

Comment 8 by raytoman

By eating just protein and fat and drinking just water, you can lose several kilos in a week.

Raytoman, I agree with the gist of your post but I would say that if someone is losing several kilos a week and are not dehydrated, then they are also losing appreciable amounts of muscle tissue as well and are therefore undernourished.

A more sensible rate of true fat loss would probably shake out to a half-kilo or kilo a week. Which is, of course, too slow for most people - hence the opportunity for profitable weight-loss scams.

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:21:29 UTC | #945880

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 12 by Philoctetes

The first thing to bear in mind is that nearly all nutritionists speak total bollux. Often this bollox is supported by the medical profession and governments because they wish to maintain the influence and profitability of food and drug companies. When anyone promotes a diet other than that calculated to maintain the capital status quo they are derided as crackpots and subject to ad hominem attacks. Now I don't know if Dr. Oz is a crackpot, he may be, but I do know that when; after the standard tests (duplicated to be really sure), I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes last november I was told to go on the "healthy diet" - you know, 5 portions of fruit/veg, lots of grain, cut down on the meat. etc. Well I'd been pretty close to that for a few years anyway and I've never really eaten much junk or processed food, and I still contracted diabetes. Add to that I was not overweight either. I wanted to control it by diet, they said that was impossible and to take sulphonylurea which they admitted would only hold it at bay for a few years and then I'd need insulin injections. 2 days before I was due to start their drug regime, I was advised to go onto a low/no carbohydrate - high fat diet involving a cooked breakfast of sausages, bacon, eggs, natural yogurt & double cream, dinners of meat, preferably fatty. No fruit. Within four days my metabolism had normalised, my blood sugar readings returned to acceptable levels and to my surprise I also lost 8 Lbs in weight. Neither is my cholesterol a problem. Three months into this diet I am finding the lack of pies, cakes, biscuits, potatoes, rice, pasta and fruit no problem whatsoever and a recent return for tests at my health centre confirmed my new non-diabetic status. The health professionals had a moment of preening satisfaction as they assumed that it was the drugs wot dun it, but I soon disabused them and now I have "curiosity" status in the Practice.

Ok this is anecdotal, but my Practise nurse is also pursuing a part time degree and I am offering to provide her with all my blood sugar data so that she can do a dissertation comparing the efficacy of this type of diet against the data she will already have for the "control by drugs" regime. The health service state that there is no cure for diabetes, it can only be "managed". I would suggest there are only two things wrong with this: It can be cured - (by diet) and it has been mis-managed by health and dietary professionals.

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:02:04 UTC | #945944

Sample's Avatar Comment 13 by Sample

It appears Dr.Oz remains a member of Edge.org. Knowing this, does The Observer still believe it's the "smartest website in the world?"

Mike

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 10:02:09 UTC | #946093

raytoman's Avatar Comment 14 by raytoman

I am a Diabetic and know that you can only introduce glucose into your blood by eating carbohydrates (or drinking alcohol - no nutrients, just calories).

The suggestion that people eat lots of fruit and vegetables to counteract the effects of Diabetes (too high a blood glucose count) is totally wrong since it is only carbohydrates that introduce the glucose into your system. Admittedly it is the high GI carbs that are the main problem (grains and grain products, potato, refined sugar, etc but too much fruit juice is also very bad)

Protein and fat do not contain carbohydrate so do not elevate blood glucose levels.

The only real problems with the Atkins diet are boredom and the need to choose your carbohydrates very carefully to ensure you receive enough nutrients (vitamins, minerals, metals, etc).

The big sugar lobbyists scored when Atkins died, in spite of his low card diet. That "proved" his diet was useless (he actually died in his seventies in a car accident and was slim and in great health but ad spend wins every time).

With 25% of US children contracting Type 2 diabetes in their teens currently (mainly due to obesity - lots of coke and zero exercise) and with an estimated timeframe of 15-25 years from diagnosis to amputations, blindness or coronary events, it is no suprise that Michelle Obama and other luminaries are advising on healthy eating and exercise.

They are ill served by the medical profession who probably never heard of evolution and believe "god decides" but even less well served by big sugar, fucked up chicken and McFatburgers.

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 22:43:28 UTC | #946227