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← Cleric says polio vaccination 'un-islamic', warns of jihad against docs

Cleric says polio vaccination 'un-islamic', warns of jihad against docs - Comments

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 1 by Neodarwinian

Any pretext, however harmful, to strengthen their earthy power while masking this attempt under the insanity of religion.

Way to go, Maulvi Ibrahim Chisti, you have shown the world again that your religion poisons everything.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:01:56 UTC | #947277

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 2 by mordacious1

I agree with the cleric that vaccines are un-islamic. The rational thing to do is to get the vaccine and rationalism and islam don't go together.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:09:08 UTC | #947281

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 3 by Alternative Carpark

In other words: polio is Islamic.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:25:30 UTC | #947290

Morosoph's Avatar Comment 4 by Morosoph

I suspect that the article linked below might help to explain this cleric's behaviour:

Losing Polio: Did the CIA ruin our chance to eradicate one of the world's worst diseases?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:05:45 UTC | #947304

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 5 by Philoctetes

The problem is that it's not just religious loonies that lie, Our governments have been caught at it as well, so have the drug companies. The problem is the communities that are being lied to, rational educated societies are more capable of detecting bullshit. Sadly the presence of influential priests is an indicator of an irrational and uneducated people and claims such as those made by this particular mad mullah are little different and have a similar effect as fundamentalist fuming against Darwinism in the School Boards of Many States of the old Confederacy?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:29:37 UTC | #947307

TerryStokeB's Avatar Comment 6 by TerryStokeB

Question. Has the cleric in Pakistan's Punjab province, Maulvi Ibrahim Chisti of Muzaffargarh, had the anti Polio vaccine himself???

If yes then he can be measured against his own hypocrisy.

If no he can be measured against his own stupidity. And if he contracts the disease will he continue to spread the lie so that the credulous and innocent suffer the same fate?

Either way this mirthless cretin of jihad is exposed. I guess he could achieve that highest status - that of being a martyr. How wonderful.

If we fail to eradicate Polio because of this kind of mindless propaganda, will the agent of the disease mutate into resistant forms and destroy the lives of millions? How wonderful.

Polio could be eradicated totally but for the stupidity of a band of zealots bound to a hateful, primitive and contemptible dogma. How wonderful.

Why doesn't his god do the right thing and tell him how to do some good for humanity?

Could it be that his god doesn't care?

Could it be that his god is not even there?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:59:33 UTC | #947333

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 7 by strangebrew

That stench of pompous irrationality...that is fear that is...fear that their scam is waning in popularity, fear that they have been sidelined by a global movement to understand the world as it really is..

It is the fear of being the only child left without a clue! It is the fear of a bully that finds his threats no longer make the victims pee themselves in awe and anxiety.

It is fear of their own ignorance!

It is just fear!

And it kills!

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:08:34 UTC | #947334

hfaber's Avatar Comment 8 by hfaber

"In other words: polio is Islamic." Haha, very well pointed out.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:22:43 UTC | #947345

SaVen's Avatar Comment 9 by SaVen

I wish this story had been taken from the original Pakistani news source rather than an Indian newspaper.

Having said that, India faced exactly the same problem in its northern state of Uttar Pradesh some years ago, when Muslim clerics spread the rumour that polio drops were part of a conspiracy to sterilize their children. But five years down the line, "from sending greeting cards to issuing printed appeals and making announcements from the mosque loudspeaker - Muslim clerics in western Uttar Pradesh are doing everything, and with much success, to motivate their community to get children immunised against polio." From 602 cases in 2009, the rate of infection came down to just ten cases in 2010 and by early 2012, India was removed from the list of polio endemic countries after completing a full year without reporting a single case of wild polio virus infection.

I don't suppose Muslim clerics actually want their community's children to be struck down by polio, but ignorance and paranoia are serious problems, and I don't think stories like the one quoted by Morosoph really help.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:47:40 UTC | #947347

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 10 by Stafford Gordon


Of course, had a Muslim developed the vaccine it'd be wooooonderful beyond words!

But having been on their knees with their arses in the air talking to themselves for a thousand years not a lot has got done.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:24:28 UTC | #947354

flamenco's Avatar Comment 11 by flamenco

Religion. Poisons. Everything.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:00:17 UTC | #947368

achromat666's Avatar Comment 12 by achromat666

A cleric in Pakistan's Punjab province has warned that a jihad would be launched against polio vaccination teams at a time when the World Health Organisation has expressed concern at the emergence of new cases of the disease across the country.

Could someone please explain how a faith that is supposed to be one of peace could tolerate this ignorance? Or what precisely constitutes the justification for a jihad? Seems like you can just put one together for any old thing.

Jihad or not, what is it about religious ignorance that gives people the impression that medicine is bad?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:15:23 UTC | #947371

korben's Avatar Comment 13 by korben

It's funny how on that page, the second tab on the menu takes you to the Astrology section, which is a link to Their motto is "accuracy, reliability, trust" . I frankly don't know anymore what kind of criteria people use to determine what's true and what's not. I have very little hope that reason will ever win the battle against superstition and nonsense.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:56:24 UTC | #947382

hellosnackbar's Avatar Comment 14 by hellosnackbar

I suppose that since Allah(the imaginary) is the creator of the polio virus then some iniquitous Imams believe that vaccination is interfering with Allah's will . The atrophy of Mohammedanism is something I would pray for(Inshallah) ;if my brain had been pathologically modified by belief in sky fairies.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:12:58 UTC | #947390

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 15 by SaganTheCat

would be a shocking story if it weren't for the fact that as much reasoning has gone into this ant-vax campaign as any other (e.g. MMR)

you only have to hint at a conspiracy and a huge segment of the planet's most intelligent species will fall in line like obediant cattle

maybe a counter-measure would be to suggest the drops protect against the effects of the mind controlling chemtrails. he who calls conspiracy first, wins the argument

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:25:38 UTC | #947393

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 16 by Carl Sai Baba

A symbiotic relationship between two viruses?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:22:08 UTC | #947399

Rosbif's Avatar Comment 17 by Rosbif

Allah is all powerful. Allah wants the kids to have a crippling illness? So he can make the vaccine not work? No, wait, he could stop the WHO going, so actially he wants them to immunise the kids. But then that means he wants the cleric to call for Jihad to stop the WHO doing Allah's will to save the kids from the crippling illness He put upon them ...Erm, but then does he want the cleric to be arrested so the WHO can save the children ....

It's a shame the kids can't be immunised against delusion

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:46:59 UTC | #947402

Metamag's Avatar Comment 18 by Metamag

We should really keep this lunatic asylum called Pakistan completely isolated..

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:07:15 UTC | #947404

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 19 by Vorlund

Residents said the cleric had tried to convince them that the polio campaign was a "Western conspiracy" to render the population impotent.

He should have some of Allah's own polio and see if he feels any less impotent when he's crippled.

These tossers spend so long rote learning the bogey stories in the koran any potential their brains had for thinking straight has atrophied,

Muslim 6 stage problem solving paradigm.

Brief consider something you can't comprehend.

Fail to realise you can't understand it

Declare it un-islamic or better still western or jewish

Kill it or anyone associated with it.

If in doubt conclude problem solving with more gratuitous killing!

Sit in the desert sun and think how merciful and compassionate Allah was to let you live in such an inhospitable shithole as his chosen people.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:43:02 UTC | #947410

btheist's Avatar Comment 20 by btheist

The stupidity.... it hurts! Religion really does poison everything.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:50:10 UTC | #947421

PERSON's Avatar Comment 21 by PERSON

You don't have to be Muslim to believe this sort of stuff. There was the MMR fuss, and at the moment (mement?) the fundies are pushing conspiracy theories about contraception, abortion and HPV vaccination, the latter with help from the unaffiliated anti-vaccine crowd.

It's very tempting to go with intuition. Instinctively, parents do not want their child to be "harmed", i.e. have a needle stuck in them. They don't want them to be upset or have to deal with the pain of it. They then rationalise that by allowing themselves to be convinced by the anti-vaccine stories. If their child is sick, and that happens around the time of the vaccination, they blame the vaccine. If they hear the stories of such people, they become concerned (and the story tellers are self-selecting: those who don't have problems don't have such passion) and again their instinct is to be protective. And, to be fair, large pharmaceutical and synthetic chemical companies have been pretty badly behaved, both as of late and in the past (valium, oxycodone, thalidomide, DDT, agent orange, etc). The Nixon medical system in the US is an appalling farce of perverse incentives and exploitation. It's not surprising if they don't trust the medical establishment, sadly.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:50:09 UTC | #947431

papa lazaru's Avatar Comment 22 by papa lazaru

Comment 21 by PERSON :

You don't have to be Muslim to believe this sort of stuff. There was the MMR fuss, and at the moment (mement?) the fundies are pushing conspiracy theories about contraception, abortion and HPV vaccination, the latter with help from the unaffiliated anti-vaccine crowd.

But they don't go around calling for blood.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:20:53 UTC | #947442

TeraBrat's Avatar Comment 23 by TeraBrat

If these weren't innocent children I'd say, "so what!".

Sadly it's always the innocent who suffer the most, never the radicals themselves.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:23:39 UTC | #947443

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 24 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:11:53 UTC | #947508

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 25 by Steve Zara

Comment 24 by Border Collie

One thing we can say about Muslims is that they're predictably stupid and violent.

I must be off again. Lots of work to do, including writing. However, I am sad to see that this kind of ranting nonsense still persists on a site that is intended to promote reason. Well, it's either ranting nonsense or the consequence of an astounding ability to predict the intellect and behaviour of over a billion other fellow human beings.

One of the great failings of our societies is the tendency of some people to treat other people as anonymous faceless numbers. It's reflected in the phrases which go "those ........, they are all ......." We all know so many examples, such as "Those atheists, they are all immoral".

It's sloppy, ignorant, arrogant and dehumanising. One of the worst aspects of religions is that they take away our dignity by making us servants of gods. Let's not fall into the trap of dehumanising others too.


Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:33:31 UTC | #947514

Charonomicrobium's Avatar Comment 26 by Charonomicrobium we see a rare demonstration of the actual mechanism of natural selection for intelligence in our species. ;)

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:31:58 UTC | #947555

DavidMcC's Avatar Comment 27 by DavidMcC

Hmm.... Exploiting the Abbottabad incident, perhaps?:

ABC News

It has since been reported the CIA used a fake international polio eradication program as a front to track the fugitive terrorist leader down in the city of Abbottabad.

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:59:22 UTC | #947568

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 28 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:11:17 UTC | #947596

silentbutler's Avatar Comment 29 by silentbutler

Comment 14 by hellosnackbar :

The atrophy of Mohammedanism is something I would pray for(Inshallah) ;if my brain had been pathologically modified by belief in sky fairies.

Pathologically modified. No better way to put it. Take someone who has been warped from birth by faith and attempt to reason with them on even the semantics of the word belief, and you'll find that there is little distinction between uses on matters of fact and fantasy. For instance, I once had a conversation with someone extremely superstitious; from the Philippines actually. He had his "beliefs" and asked if I believe. I said if it's a matter of belief, then I chose not...he didn't get it, so I elaborated. I asked him if I had a choice to believe and he of course said yes. I asked him if he feels that he has a choice in believing in gravity, and again he said yes. I then said, well the one doesn't require belief, it's always there, go ahead and test it, but the other (in this case it was tree spirits) is not there, will never be there (safe bet), and therefor depends on belief alone. But alas...he still never got it. My point, there has to be some organic, neurological insufficiency that does, or more to the point does not occur while the brain develops at a young age. Perhaps due to stressers; environmental triggers maybe. It's already well known that exposure to traumatic events can have developmental consequences on the brain; if I recall, myelination of the neuronal sheaths, or something to that effect. In any case, I'm utterly baffled, and though never surprised, always dismayed.

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:06:43 UTC | #947617

thebaldgit's Avatar Comment 30 by thebaldgit

A reminder that not only will religion kill you with its contempt for other religions and non believers, but its ignorance is also capable of killing hundreds or even thousands.

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 08:54:42 UTC | #947676