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James Cameron finds grave of Jesus & Son - Comments

wayne's Avatar Comment 1 by wayne

I'm dying to hear about the "DNA analysis"! To what does one compare Jesus's DNA?

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:30:00 UTC | #20940

The author's Avatar Comment 2 by The author

Sounds like complete nonsense to me.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:41:00 UTC | #20943

Mr. Mark's Avatar Comment 3 by Mr. Mark

"I'm dying to hear about the "DNA analysis"! To what does one compare Jesus's DNA?"

I'd think any communion wafer would do...

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:49:00 UTC | #20944

Lady GG's Avatar Comment 4 by Lady GG

Well hopefully this "DNA analysis" will finally dispel the "born of a virgin" myth by finally proving that Jesus has a diploid chromosome complement! Although, we really don't need that to figure out it's a myth now, do we!?

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:51:00 UTC | #20945

OUMedStudent's Avatar Comment 5 by OUMedStudent

"any communion wafer"!!!! Hilarious!

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:59:00 UTC | #20946

wice's Avatar Comment 6 by wice

calm down. it easily could be a hoax. OR a forgery. OR a grave of a family that coincidentally had the same names mentioned in the bible. joseph, mary and jesua were not uncommon names that time. so please, don't take this on trust just because you want it to be true.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:01:00 UTC | #20947

maton100's Avatar Comment 7 by maton100

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54131

Read tthis! A physics fool of Kentucky's finest has developed a paper on particles flying out of the sun's ass after God spoke. Apparently God's sound vibrations caused the big bang, you see.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:05:00 UTC | #20948

maton100's Avatar Comment 8 by maton100

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:07:00 UTC | #20949

Graham's Avatar Comment 9 by Graham

6. Comment #23122 by wice on February 26, 2007 at 1:01 pm

"so please, don't take this on trust just because you want it to be true."

Why would we want it to be true?

The whole question of the historicity of the Jesus character is facinating question, but I for one have no agenda one way or the other. From the point of view of the pursuit of knowledge it would indeed be very interesting to shed a little archaeological evidence on the issue. It may well provide some additional arguments against literal christianity, but it would not change anything regarding the philosophical debates over whether a god exists or not.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:13:00 UTC | #20950

helen sotiriadis's Avatar Comment 10 by helen sotiriadis

please, don't take this on trust just because you want it to be true

lol.. this sounds precariously close to faith

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:13:00 UTC | #20951

DerrickB's Avatar Comment 11 by DerrickB

This isn't a hoax.
Here's the full story from the Discovery Channel Website:
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/tomb.html

The DNA analysis was to show that while this is clearly a family tomb 'Jesus' and 'Mary Magdelene' are not genetically related and hence were likely to be married. Further analysis is intended to show if the Ossary with the remains of Judah is their son.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:20:00 UTC | #20955

Urbi Cica's Avatar Comment 12 by Urbi Cica

For me, the perfect antedote to this sort of thing is an improvisation by Chris Morris and the legendary Peter Cook in which they discuss Sir Arthur Streeb Greebling's (Cook) discovery of the fossilised infant Jesus! In fact, not just one but several fossils because Jesus had to make some trial runs for the resurrection to ensure he got it right! This is what popped into my mind when I read this article and I'm still smiling.

It was broadcast on Radio 3 (the excellent classical music station) in 1993.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:23:00 UTC | #20956

DerrickB's Avatar Comment 13 by DerrickB

Its attracting some interesting responses - as usual misrepresenting the claims and attacking the messengers:


Rev. Schenk: Documentary on Jesus' Grave is a Hoax

Calls film "pure presumption" at best, "pure chicanery" at worst

WASHINGTON, Feb. 26 /Christian Newswire/ -- National Clergy Council president, the Reverend Rob Schenck issued this statement following a press conference that announced a new documentary claiming proof against the Resurrection of Jesus Christ:

"Today, Hollywood director James Cameron, whose claim to fame is a fictionalized account of the sinking of the Titanic, unveiled a documentary claiming a coffin found in Jerusalem 27 years ago once contained the remains of Jesus Christ. Cameron employed archaeologists and DNA experts to bolster his assertion Jesus was buried along with his mother Mary, Mary Magdalene and a supposed son, Judah.

"Over the years, Hollywood has attacked and mocked Christianity, providing only negative portrayals of people of faith. It has produced films that undermine moral culture. Hollywood's production of 'The Da Vinci Code' sensationalized a conspiracy theory that the Catholic Church engaged in a cover up of the real story of Jesus operating in the manner of a crime syndicate.

"According to Cameron, his film is no mere speculation, but historical fact. By claiming the remains of Jesus returned to dust along with other members of his family, the Hollywood filmmaker is denying the divinity of the Son of God and his victory over death. Cameron clearly intended to drive a stake into the heart of Christianity, since without the Resurrection, Jesus was only a mortal man.

"Media outlets should exercise restraint in reporting Cameron's Hollywood fiction masquerading as scientific fact. All of Jesus' contemporaries recorded Christ rose after being dead for three days and ascended into Heaven. For 2,000 years people of faith along and countless scholars have pored over the Scriptures, confirming their veracity. A Hollywood director is the least qualified to render any determination of Biblical truth. Not only so, but the people Mr. Cameron has partnered with completely lack credibility. One has been discredited by experts as a charlatan. This is nothing more than a modern day circus sideshow. At best it is pure presumption. At worst, it is pure chicanery."

Rev. Schenck holds degrees in Bible and Theology, Christian Ministry and has completed additional postgraduate work in Christian History.

He is Chairman of the Committee on Church and Society for the Evangelical Church Alliance and President of the National Clergy Council in Washington, DC.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:24:00 UTC | #20957

wice's Avatar Comment 14 by wice

9: oh, please... let's be honest. you say you wouldn't laugh your socks off if the grave was genuine? i know i would.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:28:00 UTC | #20961

sane1's Avatar Comment 15 by sane1

I saw Cameron and the reporter on the Today show. They make factual claims, they say. The DNA tests were to confirm that the remains in the tomb of "mary" were not those of a sister to "jesus," which apparently was a possibility. Not sure what else they used the DNA for - probaly to establish the relationships among the buried. And don't worry, Christians will attack the messenger, insist on the truth of utter nonsense, and make up all sorts of arguments to hold on to their myths. Don't expect to be vindicated as an atheist. I hope the show when it airs is well done.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:31:00 UTC | #20962

Stephen's Avatar Comment 16 by Stephen

this is from the same people who made the Exodus Decoded doc on the History Channel, so skepticism is definitely in order

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:33:00 UTC | #20963

DerrickB's Avatar Comment 17 by DerrickB

Most of the news reports so far quote 'scholars' or 'experts' who have either 'slammed' or 'derided' the findings. As far as I can determine the scholars are either devout Christians who argue that it must be nonsense as the claims conflict with the Bible, or a then student archaeologist called Amos Kloner who originally discovered the tomb in 1980 and did not recognise its significance.

I am sure there will be some interesting and intemperate discussion for some weeks.

In a recent post on the debate between Sam Harris and Andrew Sullivan I recall someone asking what evidence would convince Sullivan that he was wrong about Christianity. If Cameron's documentary should turn out to be soundly based - I wonder how Christians will deal with this evidence?

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:37:00 UTC | #20964

Carl S. Richardson's Avatar Comment 18 by Carl S. Richardson

Well if it is true, we can all get ready to watch those wacky theologians once again reinterpret the bible and claim it was right all along.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:41:00 UTC | #20966

DerrickB's Avatar Comment 19 by DerrickB

#16 Stephen - I didn't see Exodus Decoded. How bad was it?

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:43:00 UTC | #20967

RickM's Avatar Comment 20 by RickM

"All of Jesus' contemporaries recorded Christ rose after being dead for three days and ascended into Heaven. For 2,000 years people of faith along and countless scholars have pored over the Scriptures, confirming their veracity."

Is this a joke or what?

FOX News going nuts on this. LOL.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:12:00 UTC | #20971

ksskidude's Avatar Comment 21 by ksskidude

I am positive that if this turns out to be indeed true, Christians all over the world will unite in defiance of this finding. If one thing has become apparent to me, its that believers don't care what evidence there is to the contrary.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:21:00 UTC | #20973

Kingasaurus's Avatar Comment 22 by Kingasaurus

The problem is Cameron and his buddies are theorizing that The James Ossuary is a missing coffin from this particular tomb. That conjecture won't make their new claims look very credible, as The James Ossuary is highly suspect and a potential forgery:

http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-03/bonebox.html

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:29:00 UTC | #20974

Frostbit's Avatar Comment 23 by Frostbit

quote:
"I'd think any communion wafer would do..."

I damn near choked to death on that one.

Funny!!!

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:30:00 UTC | #20975

Meow_Mix's Avatar Comment 24 by Meow_Mix

Created my account just to comment on how truly excellent this is... and just in time for Lent, no less! Unfortunately, ksskidude and others are probably right about the eventual reaction to this earthshaking find, but I can't give up hope! If the story is as authentic as it appears to be, I am crossing my fingers and hoping that it turns out to be as earth-breaking as a find like this deserves to be. Another triumph over superstition in the name of science and good sense!

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:33:00 UTC | #20977

DerrickB's Avatar Comment 25 by DerrickB

Kingasaurus - suspect yes - but this from Wikipedia:

"The Israeli Antiquities Authority has never offered any report explaining why it concluded the ossuary is a forgery. Therefore, a number of international experts refuse to agree that it is a forgery until the IAA allows scholars to review its findings. For example, Ed Keall, the Senior Curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, Near Eastern & Asian Civilizations Department, continues to argue for the ossuary's authenticity, "The ROM has always been open to questioning the ossuary's authenticity, but so far no definitive proof of forgery has yet been presented, in spite of the current claims being made." [1]

Meanwhile Biblical Archaeology Review also continued to defend the ossuary. In articles in the February 2005 issues, several experts in writing on stone argue that the James Ossuary is authentic and should be examined by specialists outside of Israel. Another article claims the cleaning of the James Ossuary before it was examined may have caused the problem with the patina."

It will be interesting to see how the documentary addresses this.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:39:00 UTC | #20978

Stewart's Avatar Comment 26 by Stewart

What I find particularly rich here is that there is no evidence for a historical Jesus and yet Christians seem to have their knickers in a twist over the possibility this discovery will make people believe Jesus had earthly remains, meaning their religion is buggered.

Even if 2,000-year-old DNA could tell us that the "significant" two weren't blood relatives, nothing other than that can be established. It will mean the credulous will think it more likely it's Jesus' family. That's the furthest and most conclusive it can possibly go. Any use of the word "proof" here is totally out of place.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:42:00 UTC | #20980

Russell Blackford's Avatar Comment 27 by Russell Blackford

This is all so inconclusive that it means nothing. Still, I had to laugh at the ridiculous sputterings by Rev. Schenck.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:56:00 UTC | #20983

Bremas's Avatar Comment 28 by Bremas

This one is starting to pick up steam. Just was on Fox News blog regarding the story. You can guess what most of the responses are like.
An example:

"No, this claim is not possible. I am a Christian and I know that my savior Jesus Christ lives. He died on a cross, was buried in a tomb and rose again on the third day. When he rose again, there was nothing left in the tomb. He now sits at the right hand of God our father in heaven and is returning soon to take those who believe in him and live for him, back to heaven. How do I know this? Because he said he is returning soon. The Bible says so." — Paul

True or not, I like watching the religious folks get up in arms about things like this. The next couple of weeks should be fun.

I also loved post #3.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:02:00 UTC | #20984

A.Lex's Avatar Comment 29 by A.Lex

It's not a joke - yet! It will be aired on April 1st.

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:19:00 UTC | #20987

sindiosxfa's Avatar Comment 30 by sindiosxfa

I saw the story this morning. It is interesting to see someone looking for DNA of a being that that most probably never existed. Garbage.. Mr. Cameron´s only motivation is more money... That is it.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/raising-the-titanic-sinking-christianity/

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:22:00 UTC | #20990