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Bill Heine interviews Richard Dawkins - Comments

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 1 by mordacious1

I dread these call-in shows, you all know why...but here goes.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:32:00 UTC | #253954

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 2 by mordacious1

"Islam is a peaceful religion, what a joke."

Oh, this is good, get 'em Richard.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:37:00 UTC | #253961

Thurston's Avatar Comment 3 by Thurston

"Politicians really exist!"

haha, good one.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:41:00 UTC | #253962

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 4 by mordacious1

I knew it. Darwin and Hitler...call-in shows, bah.

[edit] Oh good, only two callers...the Hitler one was a complete idiot of course. The chat with the muslim guy was very funny. Nice interview.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:45:00 UTC | #253967

Stephen Maxwell's Avatar Comment 5 by Stephen Maxwell

Great! Another idiot banging on about Nazi Eugenics having a direct like to Darwinian Evolutionary Theory.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:53:00 UTC | #253968

Scandinavian07's Avatar Comment 6 by Scandinavian07

Adolf Darwin type interview?



Scan 07

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:54:00 UTC | #253969

Stephen Maxwell's Avatar Comment 7 by Stephen Maxwell

Scan 07: Not really. Just about 40 seconds of the interview is a caller accusing big, bad, immoral evolutionary theory of causing the holocaust.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:57:00 UTC | #253970

notsobad's Avatar Comment 8 by notsobad

I dread these call-in shows, you all know why...but here goes.

Hey, everybody knows that those people are caricatures of believers and not true Scotsmen, I mean Christians.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:03:00 UTC | #253972

SmartLX's Avatar Comment 9 by SmartLX

The Nazi-thumper does have a point in that some Nazi propagandists at the time did (likely) defend the eugenics programs in some evolutionary terms.

Of course that doesn't mean that their work had anything to do with natural selection, or that it happened as a result of the theory, or that they even believed in a link themselves.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:28:00 UTC | #253978

j.mills's Avatar Comment 10 by j.mills

Yeah, I don't think RD fielded that one very well on this occasion. Better to point out that natural selection is an explanation of how life works, not a prescription for human action. The Nazis' self-justifications were simply false. (Shame god was busy that day, really.)

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:48:00 UTC | #253986

Matt H.'s Avatar Comment 11 by Matt H.

The Muslim had no idea who Richard was, he thought he was a Christian! That's actually rather quaint.

Nothing quaint at all about the Bible basher who came on next.... it is a shame that this lie about Darwin influencing Hitler continues to persist. I think it is the biggest barrier preventing people from accepting evolution.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:52:00 UTC | #253990

Lisa Bauer's Avatar Comment 12 by Lisa Bauer

I have to say, I've heard a few Muslims answer the "death penalty for apostasy" question exactly the way the Muslim guy did -- "I've never heard of that!" I don't know if they're being honest, though I wouldn't necessarily doubt it. You'd be surprised just how little a lot of Muslims know about Islam -- though this doesn't prevent them from defending it vociferously against all criticism!

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:21:00 UTC | #253995

j.mills's Avatar Comment 13 by j.mills

Well, it's a funny thing, Layla, this faith business, isn't it? I would have thought that if you truly believed there was a god, and heaven and hell and judgement and all that, there could be nothing more important in your life than finding out what your god wants from you. Yet many theists - Muslim, Christian, whatever - seem startlingly ignorant of the details of their religion and have certainly never read their scriptures (even if, in the case of Islam, they may know them by heart!).

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:33:00 UTC | #253998

Liveliest Crib's Avatar Comment 14 by Liveliest Crib

I always wince a bit when listening to these call-in shows. I know the lineup of "usual suspect" questions I'm about to hear. And certainly, some did come up.

But I have to admit, "Why did my mom change her mind about religion?" was one I'd never heard before.

:)

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:35:00 UTC | #253999

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 15 by rod-the-farmer

I think it might have been useful for the good professor to quote the chapter & verse of the Koran or hadith that mentions death for apostasy. The more times we mention that, the better, IMHO.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:52:00 UTC | #254001

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 16 by aquilacane

The Americans applied the theory of gravity to Fat Boy as they flew over target... bloody Newtonians!

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:59:00 UTC | #254002

Goldy's Avatar Comment 17 by Goldy

Comment #267579 by Layla Nasreddin
Given that nearly all religious people actually only know what they are told, that's not really surprising. Heck, even Christians only get what Jesus said secondhand from their primary source. The Koran is what God told Mohammed and what he then told someone, etc, until someone else wrote it down and finally you have a bunch of people saying "Well, what he actually meant was..." - hardly the basis for a great understanding of a religion.
If I was God, I would bypass all these damn Chinese whispers and just let everyone know my message. If they chose to follow me, great. Obviously I'd let them not follow me (free will and all that) and just make sure they die horribly and that their death for what is left of eternity is painful :-) But I would not cloud the issue by letting some oik who doesn't have the decency to write down everything I say firsthand proclaim my message.
Piss poor god, if you ask me. Amazing so many people are too stupid to see him for the spin doctoring the whole charade is....

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:08:00 UTC | #254005

RobertHarris's Avatar Comment 18 by RobertHarris

The Hitler argument for Christians is horrible. The holocaust was all about anti-semitism, which was entirely the product of Christians who blamed the jews for killing Christ.

Martin Luther made anti-semitic statements that must have made even Hitler blush.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:17:00 UTC | #254008

Lisa Bauer's Avatar Comment 19 by Lisa Bauer

rod-the-farmer wrote:

I think it might have been useful for the good professor to quote the chapter & verse of the Koran or hadith that mentions death for apostasy. The more times we mention that, the better, IMHO.


The thought of the good Professor reciting the Qur'an (preferably in Arabic but English will do) almost has me falling off my chair laughing. (By the way, nice touch with the "I put away childish things" reference to Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians in the Bible being applied to belief in God!)

Seriously, it's not really stated precisely in the Qur'an. There are a few verses that might be seen in that light (4:89, "If they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them"), but more likely you'll get people quoting the "There is no compulsion in religion; Truth stands out clearly from error" verse (2:256), or the ones saying things like, "The truth has come, let whoever wills accept it and whoever wills reject it" (18:29) or "Will you then compel mankind, against their will, to believe? No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah." (10:99-100).

No, the bit you want is in the hadith, where Muhammad is quoted as saying, "Whoever discards his religion, then kill him."

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:29:00 UTC | #254011

Lisa Bauer's Avatar Comment 20 by Lisa Bauer

j mills wrote:

Well, it's a funny thing, Layla, this faith business, isn't it? I would have thought that if you truly believed there was a god, and heaven and hell and judgement and all that, there could be nothing more important in your life than finding out what your god wants from you. Yet many theists - Muslim, Christian, whatever - seem startlingly ignorant of the details of their religion and have certainly never read their scriptures (even if, in the case of Islam, they may know them by heart!).


Isn't it weird? Even more strange is the phenomenon where people will grumble about stupidities in their religion or things said by clerics...but then, if anybody from the "outside" criticizes it, they're quick to defend it. Even if the person is saying the same kind of thing that they were just saying. A tribal thing, I guess.

Goldy wrote:
If I was God, I would bypass all these damn Chinese whispers and just let everyone know my message. If they chose to follow me, great. Obviously I'd let them not follow me (free will and all that) and just make sure they die horribly and that their death for what is left of eternity is painful :-) But I would not cloud the issue by letting some oik who doesn't have the decency to write down everything I say firsthand proclaim my message.
Piss poor god, if you ask me. Amazing so many people are too stupid to see him for the spin doctoring the whole charade is....


The Qur'an tells, over and over again, how numerous prophets were sent by Allah to mankind to show them the right path, and each one of them in their turn faced rejection and disbelief (just like Muhammad). I couldn't help thinking, rather blasphemously, "Wait, isn't the definition of insanity to keep on doing what's been proven not to work? How many prophets does Allah have to send before he realizes that this an ineffective way of bringing mankind his message?" ;-)

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:41:00 UTC | #254014

isthatclear's Avatar Comment 21 by isthatclear

song:I believe I can fly
Dawkins I believe I can have many interviews, write many books, give lectures, get funny and be exhausted at the end, by bein an end in the new version of Vanity Fair


Elephant and butterfly

Elephant: What is wrong with that guy?
Butterfly: No ideas! I guess he is a loose cannon. How come we can be related? Our structures are different. I can fly but you can't.
Atheist : May be he can try to fly? I believe he can fly.
Butterfly: Come on. Don't make jokes. This is just a song.
Elephant: what are you these guys doing to me?
Atheist: They are taking you to the roof of skyscraper and push you out of the roof and you will see that you can fly and please sing I believe I can fly. I will be here on the ground watching you over?
Elephant: Butterfly please land on me I am scared. This guy is lunatic.
Butterfly: No worries, I will be right on your neck.
Elephant: God please help me. I will close my eyes. My god we are falling. I can't fly.
Butterfly: we told him. Guess what? If that atheist guy is not staying away, we are landing right on him?
Atheist: Sing the song fat elephant. Sing it. I believe I can fly. Oh my evolution it is falling right on me. You forgot to sing that is why.
Elephant: Poor guy I just smashed him to the ground. Sorry pal. I can't fly and by the way all the elephants are fat. What IQ do you have?

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:05:00 UTC | #254017

LeeC's Avatar Comment 22 by LeeC

Hi isthatclear

Atheist : May be he can try to fly? I believe he can fly.

Why would an atheist believe that an elephant can fly by jumping off a building?

Have they not heard of this thing called gravity?

Lee

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:17:00 UTC | #254019

SmartLX's Avatar Comment 23 by SmartLX

Rod and everyone else: got your Hadith death-to-apostates passages right here. (The first is new, the second is the same as Layla's.) Take note of the name and numbers, and spread the word whenever someone throws the "religion of peace" meme around.

Sahih al-Bukhari 9.83.17: "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases:...for murder; a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse; and the one who reverts from Islam..."

Sahih al-Bukhari 9.84.57: "Some Zanadiqa [atheists] were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment [fire].' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (The last bit is sometimes translated differently, but "kill him" is a constant.)

Background for those not familiar with the Hadith: it's a written collection of oral accounts of Muhammed's adventures outside the Quran. Muslims regard it as canon, so to speak. The Sahih al-Bukhari is apparently the most reliable subset.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:41:00 UTC | #254025

Cluebot's Avatar Comment 24 by Cluebot

I've just marked isthatclear (aka "clearmind") as a troll. However, just in case he is actually so badly misinformed he thinks his drivel is relevant, here's a simple explanation of what creationists have to refute:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R_RXX7pntr8&feature=PlayList&p=DB23537556D7AADB&index=6

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:08:00 UTC | #254029

GordonYKWong's Avatar Comment 25 by GordonYKWong

21. Comment #267603 by isthatclear on October 20, 2008 at 8:05 pm

Dawkins I believe I can have many interviews, write many books, give lectures, get funny and be exhausted at the end, by bein an end in the new version of Vanity Fair
statistical process involving a number of random variables depending on a few of us trying to save evolins?

Anyway i will talk to a lower, communalistic level of clowning around or gishing and galloping around?

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:00:00 UTC | #254043

Gregg Townsend's Avatar Comment 26 by Gregg Townsend

25. Comment #267629 by GordonYKWong

Gordon,

I'm starting to understand that program of yours. Should I be frightened?

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:06:00 UTC | #254046

GordonYKWong's Avatar Comment 27 by GordonYKWong

26. Comment #267632 by Gregg Townsend on October 20, 2008 at 10:06 pm

You should seek help immediately ;-)

even wooter doesn't understand what "I" am saying. I must crank up the loony coefficient.

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:20:00 UTC | #254051

Gregg Townsend's Avatar Comment 28 by Gregg Townsend

I choose the blue pill!

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:24:00 UTC | #254053

Roy_H's Avatar Comment 29 by Roy_H

Hitler was no atheist, Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

So former triple jumper Johnathon Edwards,has quit religion.That was news to me too. Would you call that a leap of faith?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435374/Olympic-champ-Jonathan-Edwards-insists-marriage-intact-despite-Christianity-crisis.html

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:43:00 UTC | #254056

GordonYKWong's Avatar Comment 30 by GordonYKWong

21. Comment #267603 by isthatclear on October 20, 2008 at 8:05 pm

Elephant and butterfly

Elephant: What is wrong with that guy?
Butterfly: No ideas! I guess he is a loose cannon. How come we can be related? Our structures are different. I can fly but you can't.
Crazy Fundie Wooter: You all can fly, there is a guardian angel spying on all of you. If you pray hard enough we can all fly. Sing it with me brothers:

"There can be miracles, if you believe...
Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill"

Butterfly: Come on. Don't make jokes. This is just a song.
Elephant: what are you these guys doing to me?
Crazy Fundie Wooter: Sing and rejoice, creatures of God... Testify to the glory that is Almighty God... Speak in tongues like I do:

"Take in more information than the greenish residue in my dreams. Now my religion too. Swearing holy prophets and the one keep looking at the same thing he does. Get married, establish a family."

Elephant: Butterfly please land on me I am scared. This guy is lunatic.
Butterfly: No worries, I will be right on your neck.
Elephant: God please help me. I will close my eyes. My god we are falling. I can't fly.
Butterfly: we told him. Guess what? If that fundie guy is not staying away, we are landing right on him?
Crazy Fundie Wooter: You must pray. You must have faith. You must speak in tongues:

"Fear god does not fit in logic dress. No intelligence allowed No honesty is allowed ACCORDING TO the little worm. It is also out of nowhere with perfect order and design but no worries as you see in Al rawandi's comments. WHY?"

Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:17:00 UTC | #254061