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Rayy's Avatar Jump to comment 159 by Rayy

Hi, Augustus Osari.

Thanks for your comments, I'll try and address your questions.

You say; 'the realm of existence requires that first some set of laws that allows all things to exist'. You illustrate your point well by saying a framework is required. I agree. Stating with the big bang it's reasonable to assume that the universe has a common structure. It's likely that any aliens we may encounter evolving through common laws would have many common features to ourselves. I might be reasonable in trying to find God that he would share in his make up some of those elements; perhaps iron as its so common, but it rusts; so maybe gold, as it seems more pure. Clearly rubbish. As you say for something to be, it needs a structure. I would not expect science to find God; I would not even bother to look. I'll come back to a structure that might be associated with God later.

Our universe provides structure that has evolved our bodies and enabled consciousness that allows us to experience life. It has also given us a structure for language, structure for social interaction and as discussed an appreciation of beauty as well as its likely survival function. Life as experienced is often chaotic, even though supported by reliable functions. Expressed another way physics and chemistry are neat and tidy compared to the social sciences; these are messy, people get in the way. To clarify your question, I mean life as experienced.

I'll move on to look at what I think is one of our universal characteristics; it's the sense of fair play. May be it has a genetic foundation as it appears so quickly in children. We all here the insistent cry 'It's not fair, it's not fair'. And it's easily corrupted when children blatantly try to take advantage of it. 'It's not fair' is connected to the call to love your neighbour as yourself; compassion and empathy. We all want to be treated fairly, love your neighbour as yourself is universal; acted upon it is the basis for a structure of morality. It is not owned by anyone, believers and atheists share it. Moral courage is universal, but in short supply.

Returning to the 'God of gold' and anthropomorphism. Put on an agnostic hat for a moment. What characteristics would you have if you had manages somehow to create a system like our universe that supported conscious life. I suggest that as a product of that universe you might have great difficulty in making a definition; it would be beyond your capability. You may decide it had some sort of structure independent of its creation and some sort of relationship with its creation. You would be very well aware of your limitations. That limitation is something religious people are also well aware of. So you see, you will not get a religious person to define God as you can with a material or process. It's the wrong question. The answer to how you find God then is through the structure of a moral route. It does not require high intelligence, or higher education and it is universally available and it is very simple. Love your neighbour as yourself; its very easy to say and difficult to do. You find God as you do it.

I hope this explains to some extent why debate between religious people and atheists is often seen as the deaf shouting to the deaf.


Thu, 25 Oct 2007 05:05:00 UTC | #77977