Comment 14 by xsjadolateralus :

Comment 12 by Red Dog :

Comment 7 by strangebrew :

I very much doubt believers would actually risk their soul fraternizing with the 'enemy' in any meaningful way...

In spite of your doubts it already happens all the time and has been happening for a long time. Many of the most dedicated people working for social justice and world peace are "believers" and they work with atheists and agnostics all the time. Some famous examples are Daniel Berrigan and Martin Luther King. I've also personally worked with many believers on these issues and I've often been impressed by their dedication and commitment.

Listen to what you're saying. "These people act so good, it's as if they're hardly religious at all".

Those are your words not mine. What I'm saying is that just because I disagree with someone about religion doesn't mean they are automatically a bad person. I've known atheists that were real aHoles (for a famous example take Ayn Rand) and I've known religious people who were moral, brilliant, beautiful, and very good in bed.

This isn't an avenue we should consider.

Why not? I believe in the values of the Enlightenment. Rational discussion and debate.

I stand firm with PZ and Hitchens, and many others.

I just finished Hitchens book God Is Not Great and I claim him for my side not yours. Of course he was vocal and passionate about his beliefs. I am too. But that doesn't mean that after I debate with someone I can't have a drink with them and treat them civilly. In his book Hitchens was clear that he has many friends and even wives that were religious. He didn't treat them with contempt. He even got married in a church more than once.

And again, it doesn't matter how much "good" you can do with this. Religion may get kids off drugs, help society (doubtful) but it doesn't make it's teachings moral, or it's factual claims true and at the end of the day we WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT.

And what did I say that makes you think I disagree with any of that? My point (and I'm amazed that I even have to make this argument) is that I can disagree with someone on one issue (religion) and still work with them on other issues (world peace, social justice, outlawing torture, protecting the environment) I wonder if you have ever actually spent much time working on any political issues like this? I have. And its hard work and you take all the allies you can get.