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The Magic of Reality
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Sean Faircloth:
Attack of the Theocrats!
Jos Gibbons:
I'm not sure what you mean here by "the situation".
Sorry if my language was imprecise there, I was speaking colloquially. By "no absolute moral standards" I meant the stronger charge that there are no moral truths, i.e. moral objectivism/realism/universalism is incompatible with atheism.
Then they should come up with a criteria by which moral statements can be true or false that doesn't beg the question by assuming utilitarianism or some other ethical theory.
Yes it's definitely a fallacy but surely the correct response is to point out that it's a fallacy rather than denying that these consequences exist?
This is an appeal-to-consequences-fallacy in itself! If theists can't handle the fact of moral relativism, and react against its mere suggestion with damaging and wrong-headed ethical theories, that's no reason to say it isn't true.
And so is this.
Give a specific, concrete example of a moral axiom being falsified. Scientific theories have a basis for falsification: empirical observation. We can't apply this method to moral statements because the moral content is a value judgment applied to material reality, not an empirically testable claim about material reality itself.
This makes more sense when you look at how ethical systems are derived and evolve in practise, for example in the work of Peter Singer. At each point in the process, a novel situation can be encountered (or hypothesized in a thought experiment), and existing axioms within the system are applied to yield a prescription for correct moral behaviour in that situation. If the prescription is wildly contrary to moral intuition (and often they are deliberately contrived so that they are) then the theorist has a choice of either a) expanding the set of axioms to accommodate the novel situation to yield a more palatable result, or b) just accepting the conclusion as counter-intuitive but moral. This is superficially similar to the scientific method but there is a fundamental difference: the standard being applied is just "are the implications of our theory grossly incompatible with our moral intuitions?" and NOT "did our theory predict observed reality?" Ultimately it is subjective.
We can eliminate sets of axioms that are self-contradictory but that can still leave multiple mutually hostile but internally self-consistent systems of moral axioms. There is really no way we can say that one ethical system that (for example) values individual autonomy over minimizing suffering is better or worse than the reverse, and that's the kind of difference of opinion that rests at the bottom of real-life ethical disagreements (and not cartoon strawmen about whether it's ok to be a serial killer).
Permalink Tue, 29 May 2012 07:58:52 UTC | #944169