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← Foxhole Atheist response to evangelical event on Fort Bragg

Foxhole Atheist response to evangelical event on Fort Bragg - Comments

Et's Love Child's Avatar Comment 1 by Et's Love Child

Good luck with that.

ELC

Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:58:43 UTC | #531329

TheRationalizer's Avatar Comment 2 by TheRationalizer

Not being an anti-religion event is an excellent approach.

Sat, 09 Oct 2010 18:22:19 UTC | #531379

raytoman's Avatar Comment 3 by raytoman

As an athiest I am a 7 and basically hate religion and how the inventers and perpetrators brainwash/indoctrinate their followers, using parents who should know better. I have about zero luck helping others to see the light, and that after almost 50 years of trying.

My heroes include Ghandi and Mandela. You would think I would have realised by now that a more gentle approach (a 1 rather than 7) would have more success.

I like your idea. Good luck.

Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:11:51 UTC | #531427

biame's Avatar Comment 4 by biame

Hi Japanther, first let me say I admire what you and others at the camp are doing and trying to achieve, and I wish you all the best in your endeavours and personally hope it is a roaring success.

Even though science is against you in this cause, this should never stop a person from trying. Say it long enough, say it loud enough, and it will sink into to a minority of people. Don't expect any miracles, just like with the atheists and secular naturalists who attended the "Rock the Fort," affair, the majority of people who attend will leave with exactly the same opinions they had before they attended. If you manage to get one person to listen and hear what you are saying, you will have been very successful.

Sat, 09 Oct 2010 23:26:32 UTC | #531449

Steve Hanson's Avatar Comment 5 by Steve Hanson

You're in the E-4 mafia, eh? There's plenty of power right there to get done what needs to be done, so good luck to you. But as for the "rock the fort" event...it doesn't matter whether or not they'd offer "the same" opportunity for others. It was still unconstitutional for them to do that.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 00:47:03 UTC | #531466

SourTomatoSand's Avatar Comment 6 by SourTomatoSand

Damn straight, SPC Griffith. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Sounds like a great time.

-SGT Jones, 101st ABN Division, Fort Campbell

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 02:31:16 UTC | #531478

Steven Mading's Avatar Comment 7 by Steven Mading

Good idea - challenge their claim that they would allow anyone to do this.

I'm not sure exactly how one can even state the atheist position without it being an attack on religion, though. I mean, basically, it's the position that the religions of the world are all wrong. It's a bit hard to even state that without it sounding like an attack on religion. Granted the same is true of religious claims - they can't be even stated without them being an attack on all the other religions out there plus atheists. (The basic core of Christianity is that everyone goes to hell by default, except for those who are Christian - you can't even STATE that without it being an attack, and you cant explain what Christianity even IS without at some point stating that.)

I just can't figure out this whole "say positive things about atheism without saying negative things about anything else". It's an impossible goal because it contradicts itself. To say positive things about atheism requires comparing it against the alternative.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 05:03:55 UTC | #531522

besleybean's Avatar Comment 8 by besleybean

But surely one can be positive about atheism and allow others to perceive any negativity elsewhere. Besides, we can be negative without being rude.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 07:13:15 UTC | #531532

Roedy's Avatar Comment 9 by Roedy

I am an atheist and there have been a number of incidents in my life where I thought I there was a good chance I would die soon.

Never once did the idea of asking Jehovah for help enter my mind. At a time like that you have to concentrate fully. Dithering about with ridiculous wishful thinking will just get you killed.

I go almost apoplectic with frustration when I see people praying for a lost child to be returned. You stupid, stupid people! Get out and search!!! You are just wasting precious time.

Remember that pilot endlessly repeating some prayer as the plane crashed. It is enough to ban religious pilots. They go tharn like some rabbit in the headlights. He was distracted by thoughts of his personal afterlife and sky gods.

Praying is as silly a notion as carrying a hamster in your back pocket to sacrifice on such occasions. It has never worked ever for anyone. If it did, Christians would live longer and have fewer accidents. There would be a practicing Christian Allstate insurance discount.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 07:40:48 UTC | #531534

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 10 by the great teapot

I can't see how you can have an atheist event without being antireligous. If there is no antireligion how would recognise it as atheist.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 09:28:23 UTC | #531553

El Bastardo's Avatar Comment 11 by El Bastardo

Comment 11 by the great teapot :

I can't see how you can have an atheist event without being antireligous. If there is no antireligion how would recognise it as atheist.

Really?

From what I gather it's not about "Down with religion" but more a case of "We're here, we are doing the same jobs, fighting the same wars, and are as entitled to the same rights as anyone else"

You can be for something without being against something else.

Japanther, it's a brilliant idea, if I were on the same continent I would actually be there to help, but all I can do is send moral support.

Oh, have you tried notifying the news stations? I'm sure Fox would get wind, get outraged, generate a frenzy and at least get you some publicity.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:17:08 UTC | #531570

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 12 by Stevehill

There must be a couple of reasonably well known not-very-pious bands who would love this opportunity!

Good luck with it.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:16:06 UTC | #531589

Steven Mading's Avatar Comment 13 by Steven Mading

Comment 12 by El Bastardo :

Comment 11 by the great teapot :

I can't see how you can have an atheist event without being antireligous. If there is no antireligion how would recognise it as atheist.

Really?

From what I gather it's not about "Down with religion" but more a case of "We're here, we are doing the same jobs, fighting the same wars, and are as entitled to the same rights as anyone else"

You can be for something without being against something else.

Not when the thing you are for is the antithesis of something else, and is purely defined ONLY as being the antithesis of something else. When two things are opposites, then promoting one of them is opposing the other. What you CAN do, however, is be neutral about it and promote neither, which it sounds like is really the intent of this - concentrating instead on a message about atheist demographics: "Atheism exists. We are here. Get used to it." That's a useful message too , but it's a misnomer to call it promoting atheism. It's not the same thing as promoting atheism because it makes no argument about the correctness of the position and instead merely talks about the popularity of the position.

However, if you do, at any point, make statements promoting the correctness of the atheist position, then you are automatically opposing theism RIGHT AWAY as soon as you do that because the atheist position is by its very definition nothing more than saying "The correct position is to not be a theist".

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:09:14 UTC | #531595

El Bastardo's Avatar Comment 14 by El Bastardo

You can be for something without being against something else.

Not when the thing you are for is the antithesis of something else, and is purely defined ONLY as being the antithesis of something else. When two things are opposites, then promoting one of them is opposing the other. What you CAN do, however, is be neutral about it and promote neither, which it sounds like is really the intent of this - concentrating instead on a message about atheist demographics: "Atheism exists. We are here. Don't forget to count us too." That's a useful message too , but it's a misnomer to call it promoting atheism. It's not the same thing as promoting atheism because it makes no argument about the correctness of the position and instead merely talks about the popularity of the position.

I stand by my inital statement, "From what I gather it's not about "Down with religion" but more a case of "We're here, we are doing the same jobs, fighting the same wars, and are as entitled to the same rights as anyone else""

Nor promoting the Ahtiest cause or reason, just promoting the existence of antheists in foxholes. Not against anything at all, if a believer in a foxhole wasts to ask a skyfairy to help them out, fine. This doesn't seem to be about a cause or an argument, or even a point of view, just simply stating, "Oi, we're here too, like it or not".

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:19:53 UTC | #531598

Barefoot Bree's Avatar Comment 15 by Barefoot Bree

It would be very, very cool if you could get the band They Might Be Giants. Just a thought.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:31:20 UTC | #531602

Matt B's Avatar Comment 16 by Matt B

This is a very brave and noble cause. I wish you the best of luck.

I also recommend being as clear and transparent as possible regarding this event; by specifically not being a christian event, and coming after this latest publicity, it might very well be seen as an "attack" by many popular christians. The media are experts at twisting stories and creating agendas (most news is more about getting attention/publicity than actual reporting).

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:58:23 UTC | #531676

Ryou Concord's Avatar Comment 17 by Ryou Concord

You have my best regards, thanks for helping out the 'atheists in foxholes', and any secular person who serves in the military. It pleases me to know there are people like you in our U.S. military. I'll try to spread the word.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 18:24:19 UTC | #531687

Justin Griffith's Avatar Comment 18 by Justin Griffith

@great teapot

We are not holding a 'deconversion' or 'debaptism' event. We are not going to put on any offensive or divisive entertainment.

The point of the event is to provide a day of secular entertainment. Many speakers/musicians may touch on their own personal atheism, agnosticism, humanism, but this is meant as a means of 'coming out' much like Richard Dawkins' brilliant scarlet A campaign. We'd love to help remove the negative stigma associated with the word 'atheist'.

I don't think getting up there and being angry and divisive would be the right answer.

We have a website that never strays into being anti-theist, or anti-religious, or anti-anything. Our event will stand on it's own, while being made possible by an earlier offensive event.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 19:59:12 UTC | #531736

raytoman's Avatar Comment 19 by raytoman

There is an Athiest Group/Movement in New Zealand (just realised I'm not a member) which has placed posters around the place saying something like

"You are all athiest about most gods, we just take it that one god further"

Sounds pretty sensible and not too controversial.

Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:15:14 UTC | #531743

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 20 by Ignorant Amos

Good for you SPC Justin Griffith, I wish you and your comrades, all the best with this project and hope you receive all the support you need.

Ex Cpl. Craig, P.J. Royal Engineers

Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:15:18 UTC | #532228

zchsoko's Avatar Comment 21 by zchsoko

I think this is a great idea, and I hope you have great success with it. As a soldier at Fort Drum, I'd love to see a "freedom festival" here as well. Although I am pleased to note that there aren't as many evangelical organizations pestering us here as there are down south. In any case, good luck

Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:23:10 UTC | #532404

Sarmatae's Avatar Comment 22 by Sarmatae

Any stories about soldiers being discriminated against if they didn't attend this proselytizing event... Ahem, I mean "Concert"?

Like this one

In fact, LTG Helmick, the post commander responded by saying that the same opportunity would be offered to non-believers, and other faiths.

Interesting. But it isn't the spirit of separation of church and state that the state, in any of its incarnations, try to endorse or establish all world views equally. That still leads to inequality and favoritism. The point is that the state shouldn't be endorsing or establishing any. Just having a "Christian" or whatever type of event is a violation of that.

P.S. MelodySheep - John Boswell He is terrific. I like his youtube auto-tune music. Very talented. He is worth checking out if you haven't already. My favorite is "A Glorious Dawn". I'm Sagan fan though.

Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:57:43 UTC | #532805

lebbano's Avatar Comment 23 by lebbano

I kept running into all the time while I was active duty. Christianity oozes out of every corner in the U.S. Army. Christian concerts, change of command ceremonies and every other kind of ceremony started with a prayer, having to speak to a chaplain just to be able to get married. I do not see how there is any separation of church and state, but honestly I think making a big deal about it will just have an adverse effect. I know thats a horrible attitude, but anytime I've seen someone make waves, even when they are in the right... things go poorly for them. Good luck though.

Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:38:11 UTC | #533676