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Pharyngula under attack - Comments

HenkM's Avatar Comment 1 by HenkM

I am getting negative responses from his side. I am from the Netherlands. Will report asap.

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:16:17 UTC | #600593

HenkM's Avatar Comment 2 by HenkM

From the Netherlands I am getting the message: error 404, page not available. Will report to PZ asap.

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:18:22 UTC | #600595

Billy Sands's Avatar Comment 3 by Billy Sands

Working in Glasgow

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:34:16 UTC | #600597

supernorbert's Avatar Comment 4 by supernorbert

still not working in germany

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:38:40 UTC | #600600

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 5 by Neodarwinian

@ CrystalineEntity

" Thread from Pharyngula ' shows some weird Lady Gaga thing with here misusing the term mitosis, among other things and terms.

I suspect attacks from all sources irrational can be expected from time to time. One weapon they have is disinformation. If they can get your info stopped then there nut bag nonsense gets a chance.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:04:24 UTC | #600609

G.F.Roddam's Avatar Comment 6 by G.F.Roddam

Comment 5 by CrystalineEntity :

Richard,

You were recently shown a thread from Pharyngula in which someone was called a "racist" merely because he said Islam is the most evil religion in the world. You will find a repeat performance on many others of their threads, such as the one on the Ground Zero Mosque (where we find it is racist to suspect there is anything improper about a huge mosque being built 250 yards from Ground Zero). That is typical of the blog. That is the level of discourse over there. The slightest "politically incorrect" misdemeanor is answered with the most astonishing eruptions of sheer, naked hatred. Why do you continue to associate with these fringe nutcases?

Its entertaining?

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:06:17 UTC | #600611

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 7 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 5 by CrystalineEntity :

Why do you continue to associate with these fringe nutcases?

If PZ is a fringe nutcase then so am I. Are you sure you're not a fringe nutcase hiding behind a kind of strangely reasoned attack against professor Dawkins, who has no control over the comments over on PZ's blog. Why would you think he has any such control, and why do you think this is a valid reason to criticise professor Dawkins? Why is this an acceptable reason to ddos atheist websites?

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:10:10 UTC | #600613

supernorbert's Avatar Comment 8 by supernorbert

@ CrystalineEntity

Tone is always an issue at comments on the Internet. But I don't think the tone on Pharyngula is especially rude. At least they tolerate a multitude of different opinions. This was especially the case on that debate about ground zero mosque

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:24:46 UTC | #600619

supernorbert's Avatar Comment 9 by supernorbert

@ CrystalineEntity

It is an anti-religion blog, yet critics of Islam are branded "racists".

Do you really want to tell us it is impossible to criticize Islam on Pharyngula?

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:31:10 UTC | #600620

The Alchemist's Avatar Comment 10 by The Alchemist

Who did I annoy now? Crazy astrobiologists? Fans of Ray Kurzweil? David Brooks? Every Christian, Jew, and Muslim on the planet?

I haven't been to that blog, but from what I can conclude from the above, I think there is no further need to annoy "Crazy astrobiologists? Fans of Ray Kurzweil? David Brooks? Every Christian, Jew, and Muslim on the planet", as the blog seems to be doing a good enough job already. However, in light of what has happened recently to the blog, I guess more annoyance for these crazy irrationals is in order. Go on PZ, and make your scientific rationality known to these crazy idiots once and for all.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:41:25 UTC | #600627

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 11 by Steve Zara

Comment 12 by CrystalineEntity

They DO NOT tolerate a multitude of different opinions.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but so what? If you don't like Pharyngula, don't post there. It's not compulsory. Set up your own blog, and post your views. It's easy to do. Having people insult you and call you all kind of things is part of what posting on the internet is about, and has been for a very long time, because it's not a friendly clique. If you think your views are worth posting, then post them and ignore the insults. If you believe you are right, why care about the insults anyway? I haven't had an easy time on Pharyngula in the past - I think I came across as something of a concern troll at one point. In hindsight, I probably deserved what was said about me!

The Internet is at its best when communities develop based on a vigorous and open exchange of views. That is what is so oppressive about denial of service attacks: it's an attempt to shut down debate without any argument.

I would FAR rather have all kinds of insults hurled at me than have the insulters shut down by such an attack. At least the insulters are trying to make an argument.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:43:24 UTC | #600629

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 12 by Steve Zara

Comment 16 by CrystalineEntity

I have witnessed MANY different occasions over the years in which you have backed out of interesting debates, only because someone called you a name, or in some cases not even that

Yes, and I was an idiot for doing so. Hopefully I have learned to be less of an idiot over the years. Do you want to follow my bad example?

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:57:10 UTC | #600638

Al Denelsbeck's Avatar Comment 13 by Al Denelsbeck

Stop feeding the trolls.

CrystalineEntity is most likely Crystal, AKA Hyperon, et cetera. Banned to the dungeon from Pharyngula for excessive bigotry. All of the related comments have been expunged from the very thread CrystalineEntity has linked, though not the various takedowns.

While PZ Myers is not responsible for commenters on Pharyngula, and it's asinine to think this should be the case, calling Pharyngula, Myers, or the commenters protective of islam is fatuous in the extreme.

No sympathy for puppets here.

MODERATORS, kindly take note. You can confirm this better than I.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:08:12 UTC | #600642

Matt B's Avatar Comment 14 by Matt B

Yes, and I was an idiot for doing so. Hopefully I have learned to be less of an idiot over the years. Do you want to follow my bad example?

I don't know about "idiot." Debating on a forum comprised largely of intellectuals is no easy task (I'm still getting used to it, and am not that good at it). Sometimes it's just not worth the time/energy defending yourself to strangers, especially when a hasty (not completely thought out) reply will just draw more criticism. One thing is for sure - the debate "training" I've received here recently has come in handy for the less intellectual crowd.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:10:15 UTC | #600643

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 15 by Steve Zara

Comment 19 by Just Al

Thank you. I should have realised. Good advice.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:10:43 UTC | #600644

Matt B's Avatar Comment 16 by Matt B

@ Steve and Just Al:

A possible piece of evidence for trolling is reviewing a person's previous comments and seeing that they only go back to this one thread. Another piece of evidence for trolling is ... when they troll. Just an observation.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:19:57 UTC | #600648

The Alchemist's Avatar Comment 17 by The Alchemist

A possible piece of evidence for trolling is reviewing a person's previous comments and seeing that they only go back to this one thread. Another piece of evidence for trolling is ... when they troll. Just an observation.

Evidence for trolling? One can clearly see how this site is dedicated to evidence-based understanding of nature and human behaviour, however, I am pretty sure this is one area where no evidence or reason is required, and decisions are made solely or largely on hunches and intuitions.

As CrystalineEntity just said:

Ah yes, just taking it on faith, are you? Not going to ask for any evidence to back up these claims?

No evidence required here.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:49:09 UTC | #600650

marshall621's Avatar Comment 18 by marshall621

Well damn, I was wondering why I've been having trouble accessing his site. It was probably the Raelians. They have the technology.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:12:18 UTC | #600655

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 19 by Bernard Hurley

Comment 25 by marshall621 :

Well damn, I was wondering why I've been having trouble accessing his site. It was probably the Raelians. They have the technology.

Has PZ annoyed them too?

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:30:50 UTC | #600659

Danish's Avatar Comment 20 by Danish

It is quite simply ridiculous to say that Islam critique is unwelcome on Pharyngula. PZ Myers does not shy away from criticizing Islam or actions by some Muslims when he feels it is appropriate. When he does, he often receives harsh critique back from some of the commenters - including some of the regulars who don't all share PZ's opinions about everything. The latter is apparently a shock for trolls like CrystalineEntity who don't like that people disagree with their world-view.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:40:53 UTC | #600662

Matt B's Avatar Comment 21 by Matt B

Evidence for trolling? One can clearly see how this site is dedicated to evidence-based understanding of nature and human behaviour, however, I am pretty sure this is one area where no evidence or reason is required, and decisions are made solely or largely on hunches and intuitions.

Agreed, but I won't take that chance here.

~ Matt

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:59:45 UTC | #600664

anonymous.shyster's Avatar Comment 22 by anonymous.shyster

Not meaning to point out the obvious, but why are people who criticize Islam branded as racist? Anybody with any sembience of intelligence can take a look around them and obseve that muslims come in a variety of different races and aren't all middle eastern. I know a lot are Indonesian, North African and plenty of other places that I am sure this plague has reached.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 03:14:30 UTC | #600667

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 23 by aquilacane

shyster I was thinking the same thing. Racist, really? Religionist maybe but that's kind of the whole point of being an atheist. Attack the religion not the person... unless they're an asshole.

I've been on the receiving end of many a smack down for throwing my mouth around and sounding like an idiot. Sometimes I get in a good shot though. It's a learning thing. Steve (love ya buddy) has even placed a few well aimed boots between the old legs but I'm still standing.

As for CrystalineEntity, I have word Q is on his way.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:03:04 UTC | #600670

Jice's Avatar Comment 24 by Jice

I assume it's because the line between criticism and bigotry is quite a big one. Being critical of Islam is not the same as being Racist against Islamic people. Saying, 'Every Islamic is a terrorist and shouldn't be allowed to fly,' is racist. Saying, 'Of the two attempted airplane bombings of the last 5 years, both have been Islamic' is being critical.

Lines get blurry when people can't judge the difference between the two, and they think deportation for Islamic people who were born in the country they are expected to be deported from, is just criticism and not racism. But, they would never suggest a European/American Xtian be deported to Vatican City for the same deplorable ideals. Thus, they are singling out a group based on their faith, which is bigotry and should be called out as such.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:18:13 UTC | #600676

JuJu's Avatar Comment 25 by JuJu

CrystalineEntity is right.

I noticed that a lot of the posters on Pharyngula and some of the others a the scienceblogs have got a problem with anyone who mentions Islam in a negative light.

PZ is not the problem its the people leaving comments. Dispatches with Ed Bryant has the same thing going on. Its really weird.

And the American liberal media has the same thing happening. If you mention radical Islam and how fucked up it is they automatically start calling you a bigot and a racist. They assume your attacking all Muslims, even though I've made it very clear who I have a problem with and who I don't.

They seriously think I am being irrational when criticizing Islam. Its like they don't want Islam to be thought of as having problems or something.

If you clearly state that you don't have much of a problem with moderate Muslims and that its only the fundie radicals that are of concern, they for some reason hear: All Muslims are radicals and I wish they would all disappear from the face of the earth.

Even though that's clearly not what I stated. Its really weird, kinda like the twilight zone.

I think it has something to do with them thinking of Muslims as a ethnic group and Islam as their culture. Its almost like they don't realize its all about religion.

I actually had to inform someone during a heated debate that Muslim is not a nationality, they didn't believe me and I had to explain it all to them.

Prior to that the same person had told me that he studied Muslims and the Islamic culture as a sociology major in college. Of course I was thinking "how can you studied Islam for even five minutes and not realize Muslims are not a nationally or race but that they are a religious group"

Right now in America there is a major misunderstanding of what Islam is. America is shielding itself from what most of us on this website have educated ourselves about.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:25:05 UTC | #600678

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 26 by aquilacane

Comment 32 by JuJu

I think it has something to do with them thinking of Muslims as a ethnic group and Islam as their culture. Its almost like they don't realize its all about religion.

Wow, how racist do you have to be to call all Muslims the same race. That old Greek Swede, Yusuf Islam would be pissed. I don't think he thought he was changing his race when he dropped his brain into the Islam bag.

Actually, if you look at the word Muslim, and it's true meaning, it is typically translated as "one who submits to god" I guess Catholics are of the same race as Islam followers.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:12:29 UTC | #600682

Moderator's Avatar Comment 27 by Moderator

Moderators' message

The deleted posts above were removed because they were by a sockpuppet of a previously banned user.

PLEASE: if you suspect a contributor of being a sockpuppet, or troll, or of breaching our Terms of Use in any other way, use the red flag icon to alert us to it rather than simply posting comments on the site. It is by far the fastest and most effective way of bringing it to our attention, and also avoids the further derailing of threads. Thank you!

The Moderator Team

Terms of Use

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:16:09 UTC | #600691

Sarmatae's Avatar Comment 28 by Sarmatae

Comment 23 by Matt B

@ Steve and Just Al:

A possible piece of evidence for trolling is reviewing a person's previous comments and seeing that they only go back to this one thread. Another piece of evidence for trolling is ... when they troll. Just an observation.

Lol. CrystalineEntity shows up with an account that is literally hours old. Yet claims to know and shows intimate and accurate details of Steve Zara's activity on this site dated back for years. It stretches credulity. Just not normal commenter behavior. If Crys is so familiar with Steve why the added anonymity, why not some more familiar account? Being so obviously outspoken surely they'd have taken the time years ago to sign up for an account. It's just a little creepy.

Oh yes Pharyngula. It's working fine for me in Massachusetts US. You know, I go to Pharyngula from time to time. I seldom comment. Too many Americans there. When I want to talk to Americans I can walk out my door and do so. I come here for a wider perspective. Thanks all.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:38:48 UTC | #600692

Sarmatae's Avatar Comment 29 by Sarmatae

Comment 34 by Moderator

That's a bold statement. Kidding lol.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:40:50 UTC | #600693

besleybean's Avatar Comment 30 by besleybean

Sadly, seems to be the current fashion. My last forum was crashed by a malicious hack.

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:59:30 UTC | #600694