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← Muslim Women are LUCKY to be beaten (apparently)

Muslim Women are LUCKY to be beaten (apparently) - Comments

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 1 by SaganTheCat

so do they use euphemisms like "please excuse my wife, she's a bit emotional because she had a stroke of luck before we came out..."

sorry i couldn't watch all this. the bit about women wanting a strong man said it all.

it said, this muslim man hasn't got a clue what women want. muslim men don't know the difference between strength of character and succeptible to violent mood swings. if beating womwn makes them lucky then i can only assume these men are stepping in on behalf of the almighty woman-hater who was planning on letting them go about their business before cursing them to an eternal lake of fire but with men stepping in there to slap them from time to time they at least stand a small chance of spending an eternity serving (and presumibly being beaten by) their husbands.

lucky

Wed, 18 May 2011 10:08:36 UTC | #627863

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 2 by Jos Gibbons

In summary, the position the imam advocates is that, provided certain rules are followed, and the motivation was her refusing sex, a man can infrequently beat his wife, because his need for sex takes precedence over her need to not suffer pain. (Judging by what little the interviewer says, perhaps women wanting men who solve problems is also seen as defending them being "strong" enough to beat wives.) This is the sort of view which only makes sense in the context of Islam thinking a man raping his wife is an oxymoron, a view Medieval Christendom shared but which is now recognised as misguided.

The Bible provides "OK if you follow these numerous rules" approaches to slavery and rape. I don't know enough about the societies which existed when Abrahamic texts were authored to know whether these attitudes were improvements on the time, but they are certainly much worse than our modern standards: no slavery, no rape, no beating of wives or, indeed, of people in general.

If the Koran or Hadith really contains vile nonsense like this, then we must demand Muslims stop taking said nonsense seriously today - and if that means moving beyond a literalist infallibilism for the texts, so be it. The Bible has gone through it (though to nowhere near the extent needed on factual matters, as creationism's pervasiveness demonstrates), and the Koran must follow suit. No doubt there are Muslims who will deny this Imam's claims really are backed up by scripture. But they're pretty damn detailed for a forgery, and I'd like to see their real source, if not Islamic scripture, tracked down by such Islamic apologists.

Wed, 18 May 2011 10:12:51 UTC | #627864

VDubster's Avatar Comment 3 by VDubster

I like the end where he says...

"You must not beat your wife in the same way you beat an animal or a child.

Slapping left and right". (I particularly like his mime to this effect. He looked very comfortable and reasonable while doing it)

So according to Islam the order of dominance is as follows...

Husband (Dictator)

Wife (Slave)

Animals (beasts of burden)

Children (Commodities?)

And as long as you dont hit her in the face, she can take it.

Now, as for the children...

Just to have a balanced view, where does the English phrase "Rule of thumb" come from? Is it that you were allowed to beat your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb. I'd be interested to know.

Wed, 18 May 2011 10:35:15 UTC | #627869

mmurray's Avatar Comment 4 by mmurray

Comment 3 by VDubster :

Just to have a balanced view, where does the English phrase "Rule of thumb" come from? Is it that you were allowed to beat your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb. I'd be interested to know.

That story seems to be incorrect.

wikipedia

Michael

Wed, 18 May 2011 10:41:58 UTC | #627872

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 5 by Jos Gibbons

Where does he make the animal/child comment? I've watched it several times now & I see no such subtitles. Perhaps you understand a message in the Arabic which the subtitles have missed.

Wed, 18 May 2011 10:51:25 UTC | #627875

VDubster's Avatar Comment 6 by VDubster

Yes I read that, but Wiki says that whilst this definition of the "Rule of Thumb" was never enshrined in English law, the origin of the phrase is unknown.

Wed, 18 May 2011 11:48:10 UTC | #627893

12PM's Avatar Comment 7 by 12PM

Does that mean a Muslim woman has to be all time ready? Then the one never been beaten got to be someone like that. and the one who is always lucky is not all time ready. :D

and if one is always lucky would end up in the stones eventually

Wed, 18 May 2011 11:50:57 UTC | #627895

VDubster's Avatar Comment 8 by VDubster

Apologies for the Animal//Child confusion, this was in the link "How to beat your wife" on the same youtube page, my confusion.

You should watch it as it demonstrates perfectly how reasonable it is to beat your wife PROPERLY.

Wed, 18 May 2011 11:53:58 UTC | #627896

Phen's Avatar Comment 9 by Phen

Wow, I actually have a sick stomach from watching that. The interviewer took it in his stride though, good on him. In my mind, he was furiously scribbling down notes off camera.

Wed, 18 May 2011 13:07:43 UTC | #627929

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 10 by Schrodinger's Cat

Rules about beating ? Sounds like something straight out of John Norman's alter-Earth 'Gor' novels.

( there's so many similarities between Gor and Islam that it's a wonder Norman is on his 29th Gor novel without a fatwah on him ).

Wed, 18 May 2011 14:07:02 UTC | #627961

green and dying's Avatar Comment 11 by green and dying

It's all in the scriptures. Actually this does seem lenient, the Quran says to beat women for any kind of rebellion. This guy says it's only if you want to rape her.

Wed, 18 May 2011 14:46:35 UTC | #627976

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 12 by AtheistEgbert

So no Islamic apologists or sufis here so far. Odd that. Odd that there is no condemnation of the horrible parts of the koran, or condemnation of the horror done in the name of Islam or its holy book. Where are you?

Wed, 18 May 2011 14:47:32 UTC | #627977

Barty77's Avatar Comment 13 by Barty77

Well, religion sure does make honest and moral people, eh? Sure don't need any other ethical stand point when you have something so very perfect and fair on everyone...

...shame hell doesn't exist for 'men' (or is the proper term barbarian?) like him.

Wed, 18 May 2011 15:22:45 UTC | #628000

alphcat's Avatar Comment 14 by alphcat

comment 2 @ jos gibbons

This is the sort of view which only makes sense in the context of Islam thinking a man raping his wife is an oxymoron, a view Medieval Christendom shared but which is now recognised as misguided

Er not totally consigned to history by christians. There is an extreme British Christian group called Christian Voice headed by a vile individual called Steven Green which has said there is no such crime as marital rape and that it should never have been enshrined in British law.

The clip made me feel sick. A bully telling others the godly way to bully so there are no obvious signs.

Wed, 18 May 2011 16:15:01 UTC | #628021

njwong's Avatar Comment 15 by njwong

"Allah honored wives by instating the punishment of beatings." (0:33).

"There is a beating etiquette." (1:16)

"All these things honor the woman" (1:24)

"The honoring of the wife in Islam is also evident in the fact that the punishment of beating is permissible in one case only: when she refuses to sleep with him." (2:26 to 2:38).

With such sagely advice and wisdom from the learned cleric, methinks this imam needs to be beaten by each of his 4 wives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptr8tgdEcd4

Wed, 18 May 2011 18:43:18 UTC | #628093

helena!'s Avatar Comment 16 by helena!

I can't get over the extreme irony that this man was born from a woman. Does he not get that? Talk about extreme cognitive dissonance!

This man is revolting and disgusting.

Wed, 18 May 2011 18:48:57 UTC | #628095

josephor's Avatar Comment 17 by josephor

Primitive savages. They kill women who have sex before marriage and beat them up if they don't submit completely to their husbands whims when they are married.What would Baroness Warsi's take be on this? (a) it was taken out of context or (b) she does not mind having the crap beaten out of her for not being" in the mood".

Wed, 18 May 2011 19:27:40 UTC | #628118

Cosmo_7's Avatar Comment 18 by Cosmo_7

Oooh, so there exists a "beating etiquette", how lovely :-) And Allah forbid she was to be ugly! This is sickening!

Wed, 18 May 2011 19:32:22 UTC | #628122

Geoff 21's Avatar Comment 19 by Geoff 21

To be honoured by Allah with such consideration it makes one wonder how men, who are worth twice any woman, are honoured.

How should a woman beat her husband ; are there any rules? When she and her fellow wives haven't had sex for weeks, and are desperate, do the other wives hold him down so she can give him a really good thrashing? If he is a 'real man' and Strong perhaps she's allowed to disregard those oh, so tender, caveats and kick him in the balls!

One can only wish it were so.

Wed, 18 May 2011 20:15:08 UTC | #628138

Tord M's Avatar Comment 20 by Tord M

The message seems to be that women are lucky to be beaten instead of being disfigured, dismember or brutally murdered.

I sort of agree with that, but...

Wed, 18 May 2011 20:26:13 UTC | #628144

Arnott Bird's Avatar Comment 21 by Arnott Bird

Errmmm...how many here speak Arabic. I would point out that you might be being fed exactly what you want to see and hear. There are little clues, however, that point to there being something....not quite right with the subtitles.

He suggests that admonishment should start with, perhaps, refusing to share the bed with her, and if she is not repentant then to beat her. But later it is advised that the only time a wife can be beaten would be if she refused to sleep with her husband. That seemed a little contradictory. That got me wondering. Then there is the 'universal sign language' used later in the interview (at about 2:08) (another note, it follows on from the most obvious disjoint/edit - there are others within the video) where what he clearly relates through sign would be recognised as 'seeing and thinking' - and doesn't quite ring true with what it is claimed he is saying.

Just saying. This video may not be all it is claimed to be.

Wed, 18 May 2011 20:27:00 UTC | #628145

green and dying's Avatar Comment 22 by green and dying

Comment 21 by Arnott Bird :

Just saying. This video may not be all it is claimed to be.

I don't know whether you're right but I will point out that you can find very similar things on YouTube in English.

Edit: watched it again and I disagree about the "signing" after 2 minutes, it's claimed he says "face and head" and he points to his cheek and then the top of his head. Seems fine to me.

Wed, 18 May 2011 20:47:15 UTC | #628156

Arnott Bird's Avatar Comment 23 by Arnott Bird

Well, I can tell you that neither the Arabic for face, nor the Arabic for head is used during that section of the video.

Wed, 18 May 2011 21:05:12 UTC | #628169

green and dying's Avatar Comment 24 by green and dying

Comment 23 by Arnott Bird :

Well, I can tell you that neither the Arabic for face, nor the Arabic for head is used during that section of the video.

How did you find that out?

I have one Arabic-speaking friend but I'm not going to send this to her. There must be some Arabic speakers on here. Please contribute?

Wed, 18 May 2011 21:15:15 UTC | #628174

Sean_W's Avatar Comment 25 by Sean_W

Thankfully most Muslims are moderates and rely exclusively on that old fashioned whitewash, the Protestant pout.

Wed, 18 May 2011 21:43:13 UTC | #628183

green and dying's Avatar Comment 26 by green and dying

Okay, the video says "translated by MEMRI".

Here is a criticism of other translations by MEMRI. However, it also says, "The curious thing about all this is that Memri's translations are usually accurate (though it is highly selective in what it chooses to translate and often removes things from their original context)."

Since there's no context in which saying any of this would be okay (except quoting someone else but he doesn't seem to be), and that they are the sort of things found in many other videos, my guess is that the translation is basically accurate.

Wed, 18 May 2011 21:46:50 UTC | #628186

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 27 by Stevehill

alphcat

There is an extreme British Christian group called Christian Voice headed by a vile individual called Steven Green which has said there is no such crime as marital rape and that it should never have been enshrined in British law.

That may well be because Stephen Green has a vested interested in avoiding criminal charges for - er - abusing his estranged wife.

Wed, 18 May 2011 21:52:41 UTC | #628187

Osiris's Avatar Comment 28 by Osiris

Comment 3 by VDubster :

I

"You must not beat your wife in the same way you beat an animal or a child.

Well now I am totally confused...if like Mohammed I choose to take a 6 year old bride and decide she needs a bit of a beating do I treat her as a wife or a child ??.

Wed, 18 May 2011 22:05:17 UTC | #628197

skiles1's Avatar Comment 29 by skiles1

About a month ago, I watched several clips from Arabic language talk shows, wherein the subject of conversation was how to properly beat your wife (wives) - properly: according to the Koran. As I've mentioned above, there are several clips available on the subject, but I'm holding out that the interviewees and interviewers are regarded within the Islamic community as controversial extremists whose advice no serious Muslim considers. Still, all the interviewees were different people, all the talk shows different, and there are - again I mention it - several clips on the subject. I'm left wondering.

The men talked about how you shouldn't hit a wife on the face as you would hit "children and animals". A wife must also only be struck so you don't ruin her beauty or cause her injury, and she (assuming gay marriage isn't allowable) can only be beaten in such a way when she refuses sex. According to the men on the talk shows, this is what the Koran instructs. This - the men agreed - is something "Western women" crave but don't have - portraying Western men as weaker, less dominant than Islamic men of the East - because Western men aren't allowed to beat their wives. So it wasn't characterized as abusive, to say the least. Actually, the men frequently quoted the Koran, going so far as to paraphrase Mohamed's opinion that sex is a basic right for all men. Obviously, such views hold that women are inferiors.

If you do a Google search for "Koran Wife Beating", under the Videos category, several videos as I've described should be made available to you. Click on one from youtube.com, and You-Tube will direct you to yet more videos on the same subject.

I should also mention how horrifying I find such fundamentalism (and woman, animal and child beating) to be.

Wed, 18 May 2011 23:58:46 UTC | #628230

Tord M's Avatar Comment 30 by Tord M

You must not beat your wife in the same way you beat an animal or a child.

Does this mean I can not maim or disfigure her in the same way as I usually do with my animals and children?

What about chopping off her nose and tongue once in a while? Surely that must be ok?

Thu, 19 May 2011 00:07:39 UTC | #628233