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"Ark Man" tours the UK - skeptic action needed! - Comments

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 1 by Stevehill

These are not major rock and roll venues.

Can't help feeling the best medicine here is to ignore the idiot.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:23:53 UTC | #870012

Jay G's Avatar Comment 2 by Jay G

Stevehill is correct. The time I just spent to type this was a total waste.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:29:52 UTC | #870015

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 3 by Schrodinger's Cat

Rod Wallace is a man who has spent ten years of his life doing a 'feasibility study' on the biblical ark, including making scale models.

One has to laugh.

Just how 'feasible' is it that two of every one of the 7 million ( known ) species on Earth somehow made their way to the Ark.......that 4 people fed all 7 million for months, each with it's own special diet.....not to mention the feasibility of 4 people dealing with several hundred tons of poop every day. The fact that all those species might 'fit' into the Ark.....something I'd actually dispute.... is somewhat irrelevant.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:55:24 UTC | #870054

Robert Howard's Avatar Comment 4 by Robert Howard

Comment 3 by Schrodinger's Cat :

One has to laugh. Just how 'feasible' is it that two of every one of the 7 million ( known ) species on Earth somehow made their way to the Ark.......that 4 people fed all 7 million for months, each with it's own special diet.....not to mention the feasibility of 4 people dealing with several hundred tons of poop every day. The fact that all those species might 'fit' into the Ark.....something I'd actually dispute.... is somewhat irrelevant.

Yeah, how exactly did Noah manage to aquire breeding pairs of every critter on earth? This would have made him the most travelled person in history and would surely have taken hundreds, no, thousands of years. Not to mention returning them all back to where he got them from once the flood waters had receded. I have this image of him returning the polar bears to the North Pole and saying, "What's next on the list, Ham? Penguins? We got them from the...South Pole, didn't we?...The other side of the planet..........Ah, fuck it, let's just leave 'em here".

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 04:43:05 UTC | #870132

BigBlue's Avatar Comment 5 by BigBlue

Having sat in on similar events in the past, it's most likely that he'll only answer questions that he has vetted earlier and not those of an ad hoc nature.

In other words, he'll make sure he can't possibly get floored by a question from a person with a modicum of reason or intelligence.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:51:53 UTC | #870157

Thunderballs's Avatar Comment 6 by Thunderballs

What slogans would be appropriate for protest signs ?

Suggestions below please ....

Remember the target audience ofc !!

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:32:41 UTC | #870217

Phen's Avatar Comment 7 by Phen

Comment 6 by Thunderballs :

What slogans would be appropriate for protest signs ?

Suggestions below please ....

Remember the target audience ofc !!

"Down with this sort of thing"

"Careful now"

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:13:23 UTC | #870249

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 8 by Alan4discussion

Rod Wallace is a man who has spent ten years of his life doing a 'feasibility study' on the biblical ark, including making scale models.

What a waste of effort delusions can inspire in fanatics!

I think some comment in the local press on the farcical nature of such meetings, would be more appropriate, but only if Wallace is getting publicity anyway. Otherwise quietly ignoring stupidity, rather than giving it status and credibility as a subject worthy of debate by "debating the controversy", is a better option.

Comment 6 by Thunderballs

What slogans would be appropriate for protest signs ?

I think cartoons would be better than slogans.

Something like a picture of a 20 foot skin covered rowing boat with Noah telling the unicorns and dinosaurs they had no tickets, and he only had room for the first 7million pairs of animals.

... Or perhaps a couple of Sumerians - the 5th to 3rd millennia BC standing on the shore, looking out to sea and saying, "That silly bugger Noah is still out there with his zoo! Doesn't he know the river level has dropped again?"

Early ships

Where's aquilacane??

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:21:48 UTC | #870254

mole at the counter's Avatar Comment 9 by mole at the counter

What I want to know from Mr. Wallace is, how come only the ark managed to stay afloat? Why not any of the other boats or ships around at that time?

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:47:45 UTC | #870274

Egon Voolavon's Avatar Comment 10 by Egon Voolavon

The Ark through the eyes of Sinbad, forgive the length but.....

"No.... Please.... Stop all this mamby-pamby sunday school colouring book reasoning. This is "Bible & SCIENCE"

Is the Noah story plausible?

Lets gather some facts.

Noah's ark was approximately the size of the Staten Island Ferry. The Ark was about 480ft by 79ft The Staten Island Ferry is 310ft by 70ft but the Staten Island ferry is much taller than the Ark and has 7 usable decks where the Ark only had 3 decks. In terms of total volume and deck space, both vessels are of similar capacity.

The Bible states that all living organisms was created "after their kind". This means that God created each individual species as we see it today. There is no Macro Evolution where one species can evolve into a different species.

The simplest and most generally accepted definition of a "Species" is a group of organisms actually or potentially capable of interbreeding and producing viable offspring. For instance A Jack Russell Terrier can bread with a Beagle and produce viable offspring, therefore Jack Russell Terriers and Beagles belong to the same species (Dogs). However a Jack Russell Terrier can not successfully breed with a cat. So we can say that cats and dogs are separate species. Variation within a species (Micro Evolution) is allowed biblically, so Noah would only have to take 2 dogs onto the Ark to explain all the varieties of dog we see today.

According to the latest figures (as of March 2004) there are 304,000 known distinct species (http://www.sp2000.org) all of which would have to survive for about a year on the Ark. There were 2 of each species (some say 7 of each except the unclean animals). Lets assume 2 of each, that's 608,000 creatures on the ark.

There were 8 people on the ark.

Lets assume that on average, each creature is fed only once a day. We will also assume that The Noah Clan feed animals for 8 hours a day, Clean up the mess made by 608,000 creatures for 8 hours a day and spend 8 hours sleeping and eating themselves.

608,000 Creatures / 8 people / 8 hours / 60 minutes = 158.3

Each person would have to feed and water 158 creatures every minute, without a break. That's 2.63 animals per second. In other words, each animal would get about 0.379 seconds of attention during feeding and the same again during cleaning.

Now I know that it takes about 10 minutes to feed and water a single horse. I would think a Polar bear would take a little longer.

I'm not too sure where Noah would keep a year's supply of bamboo shoots for the Panda's or how he managed to get to China to capture the Panda's in the first place, but I feel quite sure he could not locate and prepare the food, then feed the Panda's in 0.379 seconds before moving on to the next species, which he would also have to feed and water in about half a second.

I'm sure that some of the animals could find their own way to their food stores and rustle up a tasty snack but many creatures such as the Amazonian humming birds are specialist feeders and would need more than a mere one third of a seconds worth of attention.

Lets do some more calculations:-

The length of the ark was 300 Cubits which is about 480 feet.

If we assume Noah kept the food supplies in the middle of the Ark for easy access.

The maximum distance he would have to walk to get food is 240 feet and the minimum 0 feet.

On average he would have to walk 120 feet to get food for each animal or 240 feet for a round trip.

Now we know that Noah and his 7 staff had to feed one animal about every third of a second.

So lets work out Noah's average velocity while doing his feeding and cleaning chores.

240ft x 3 times a second = 720ft/s 720ft/s x 60 seconds in a minute = 43,200 ft/min 43,200 ft/min x 60 minutes in an hour = 2,592,000 ft/hour 2,592,000 ft/hour / 3 ft per yard = 864,000 yards per hour 864,000 yards per hour / 1760 yards per mile = 491 miles per hour

If we assume he spends half that time stationary, preparing the food and feeding the animals and half the time transporting food to the animals, we can see that poor old Noah would need to run at an average velocity of about 982 miles per hour.

The speed of sound at sea level on a cool day is about 760 miles per hour.

We know that Noah must have been stationary at both ends of his food dash, so, in order to maintain an average velocity of Mach 1.3, we know he must accelerate from zero up to Mach 2.6 and then decelerate back down to zero, TWICE in one sixth of a second and also be stationary for another sixth of a second . that's pretty good for a 600 year old man.

Accelerating a human body from 0 to 2.6 times the speed of sound, then back to zero in one twelfth of a second would cause that human body to immediately explode.

The Ark was built on 3 or 4 decks, so Noah and his staff would have to negotiate stairs at very high velocities.

The shock wave generated by such violently dynamic movements would cause severe structural damage to a wooden vessel.

The friction caused by such high velocity bodies would cause the Ark to catch fire.

If we assume Noah split the crew up into three, 8 hour shifts with 3 people on the busy shifts, we can calculate that the food store would be accessed 9 times a second by three people travelling over twice the speed of sound. Collisions with a combined velocity of over 3900 miles per hour would have been common.

A shift of 3 people would generate 18 sonic booms per second

I can just visualise Noah rocketing down a ladder with a small Eucalyptus tree for the Koala's .... Colliding with Mrs Noah coming in the opposite direction carrying a large tub of Elephant Diarrhoea. That would be one Huge "Whoosh-Splat". Even if they managed to avoid a collision, how many leaves do you think would be left on the Eucalyptus tree by the time it gets to the Koala's?

If we now assume that there were 7 of each species (except unclean animals) all the velocities would need to be multiplied by about 3.5.

Of course this is all plausible.

Additionally, Noah's Quality Control failed big time.

God made a bad choice when he selected Noah to organise the survival of life on planet earth.

Noah may have been righteous but his quality control sucked.

Why did Noah save all the Cockroaches, Termites, Tsetse Fly, Mosquitos, Rats etc.... Head lice and Tape worm. Thread worm, Ring worm, Pin worm, Round worm, Genital Crabs, Fleas, bed bugs and Thrush.

There are hundreds if not thousands of species of parasite that infect humans. Noah must have collected specimens of all these and cultivated them somehow.

Why did he leave out the Unicorns but go to all the trouble of rescuing Bubonic Plague, Cholera and Malaria.

How did he manage to store and cultivate hundreds and thousands of Bacteria and Viruses that would not survive a year under water? Perhaps he was chosen because he had a lot of spare petrie dishes and nutrient gel to cultivate viruses.

Perhaps Noah came all the way here to England to find a good example of Mad Cow Disease. Did he go all the way to China to find the nastiest chicken flu virus. Maybe he just got the most ill looking pair of chickens he could find.

Perhaps he just went around collecting the most rancid disease ridden, vermin infested specimen of each animal. If he only saved 2 cows, each one must have had about 5000 bovine specific diseases and parasites.

Noah and his family must have been the most disease ridden family to have ever existed with Herpes, Typhoid, Botulism, Leprosy, Mumps, HIV, Athletes Foot and ten thousand other diseases each.

One thing is for sure. Noah must have been an expert Veterinarian to look after so many desperately ill animals for a whole year in such a cramped space. Plus he did all this when he was so ill himself.

What a guy."

All the Best.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:20:11 UTC | #870300

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 11 by Schrodinger's Cat

Comment 10 by Egon Voolavon

What a guy.

Well there you have it. Now we know that Noah was the original ancestor of Ace Rimmer.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:46:15 UTC | #870318

DaveUK9xx's Avatar Comment 12 by DaveUK9xx

@Phen

"Down with this sort of thing"

"Careful now"

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Feck, arse, tits, girls.

Damn I miss that series - and Dermot of course.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:38:10 UTC | #870360

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 13 by Alan4discussion

Comment 10 by Egon Voolavon

The Ark was built on 3 or 4 decks, so Noah and his staff would have to negotiate stairs at very high velocities.

You have to admire the fellow! This was before the invention of (bronze) nails or saws, so the whole structure would have been rough hewn timber plus basket work covered with animals skins stitched and water proofed with tar, so getting this sort of performance out of a boat of this size and construction was truly miraculous!

If we now assume that there were 7 of each species (except unclean animals) all the velocities would need to be multiplied by about 3.5.

But they said TWO of each kind. You know 2 bees - one must have been a queen! Was the other one a drone or a worker needed to raise the young? 2 ants? 2 termites?

.. and then there's the VOLUME OF WATER needed to cover the highest mountains (Everest). It must have been extra terrestrial - there's not enough on Earth! - and getting rid of the water into space afterwards!

Never mind! A comical story is a comical story!!

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:23:30 UTC | #870379

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 14 by irate_atheist

What a complete nobber.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:28:27 UTC | #870381

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 15 by Tyler Durden

Comment 13 by Alan4discussion :

Comment 10 by Egon Voolavon

The Ark was built on 3 or 4 decks, so Noah and his staff would have to negotiate stairs at very high velocities.

You have to admire the fellow! This was before the invention of (bronze) nails or saws, so the whole structure would have been rough hewn timber plus basket work covered with animals skins stitched and water proofed with tar, so getting this sort of performance out of a boat of this size and construction was truly miraculous!

Never mind! A comical story is a comical story!!

No need to panic, all is explained here: Noah’s Ark Questions and Answers

Including such gems as: How did animals get from the Ark to places such as Australia?

We also lack information as to how animals were distributed before the Flood. Kangaroos (as is true for any other creature) may not have been on an isolated landmass. For all we know, kangaroos might have been feeding within a stone’s throw of Noah while he was building the Ark.

and:

One commonly raised problem is ‘How could Noah fit all those huge dinosaurs on the Ark?’

First, of the 668 supposed dinosaur genera, only 106 weighed more than ten tonnes when fully grown. Second, the Bible does not say that the animals had to be fully-grown. The largest animals were probably represented by ‘teenage’ or even younger specimens. It may seem surprising, but the median size of all animals on the Ark would most likely have been that of a small rat, according to Woodmorappe’s up-to-date tabulations, while only about 11 percent would have been much larger than a sheep.

Seeing that the Bible can be trusted on testable matters, nonbelievers disregard its warnings concerning future judgment at their own peril.

facepalm

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:58:19 UTC | #870392

myDefinition's Avatar Comment 16 by myDefinition

The soles of my shoes melt when I try to enter these venues...

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:02:23 UTC | #870394

Sample's Avatar Comment 17 by Sample

DId Noah and his family consume free range eggs for breakfast? Doubtful.

Mike

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:58:27 UTC | #870416

paulmcuk's Avatar Comment 18 by paulmcuk

Comment 7 by Phen :

Comment 6 by Thunderballs :

What slogans would be appropriate for protest signs ?

Suggestions below please .... Remember the target audience ofc !!

"Down with this sort of thing"

"Careful now"

Chortle. "These cows are small, but the ones in the field are faaaar away".

I'm very much of the ignore him ilk. He seems to be touring church halls when, if I recall rightly, his stated goal was to have his ark as part of the Olympic festivities. Most people will mock and laugh at him - and anyone who believes him - anyway so it doesn't require any kind of organised response.

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:21:16 UTC | #870430

Geoff 21's Avatar Comment 19 by Geoff 21

From a previous thread...

Bill Nye the Science Guy comment 2 by TheRationalizer It's mainly people desperate to hold on to religious beliefs who deny evolution. My dad was in a doctors' waiting room and over heard the Muslim receptionist talking about how people are getting shorter over time. My dad asked her what would make her say such a thing, she told him that her religion told her that Noah was over 60 feet tall.

Egon, I think you should factor this into the equation ;-)

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:50:44 UTC | #870473

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 20 by Stevehill

It's temping to join the fun, and point out that if the Flood happened two out of every three litres of water have since mysteriously left the planet, and for that 4.6 billion cu km mass of water to attain escape velocity the planet would have been immolated by the energy expenditure required.

Or to say that at the highest levels of rainfall ever recorder anywhere, it would have to have rained at that rate for 60+ years to cover the Himalayas. In which period, more smart people would have built boats.

But the fuckwits are only going to say "ah, but God can do anything", so what's the point?

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:04:43 UTC | #870480

Robert Howard's Avatar Comment 21 by Robert Howard

But the fuckwits are only going to say "ah, but God can do anything", so what's the point?

It does raise the questiion, if God can do anything, why exactly did He need Noah? Why didn't the big guy just zaaap a few members of every species into some celestial storage area until the flood was over, instead of entrusting their welfare to one individual member of the species He was sending His flood to destroy in the first place?

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:21:57 UTC | #870492

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 22 by Chris Roberts

Good points guys, I think he deserves scrutinity at the least but ignoring him could also be a good strategy. He certainly deserves ridicule just for being so incredibly stupid.

I just wonder if he fed the animals on the sabbath?

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:55:16 UTC | #870510

ShadowMind's Avatar Comment 23 by ShadowMind

We should set up a stall at the door:
"Check your coats, umbrellas and common-sense here!"

Why do these idiots even bother getting out of bed in the morning?

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:59:04 UTC | #870514

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 24 by Chris Roberts

The thing that worries me is that people like this can have great influence on a lot of people.

Take my mother in law, she is a wonderful person but she used to think that Noah was a real person and a true story. As she had been raised a staunch Catholic she had NEVER thought to question any of it. Once this belief is instilled, this nearly spread to all her children and grand-children.

I am pleased to say that I have been able to put them right, four of her five grand kids don't beleive a word of the bible! (the other one is only 9 months old and 3 of them are my kids who have been raised to question everything, much to the annoyance of some of their teachers).

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:03:44 UTC | #870517

AsylumWarden's Avatar Comment 25 by AsylumWarden

A lot of Midlands dates. If I'd had a bit more notice I may well have gone along to debunk him :(

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:52:53 UTC | #870535

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 26 by Alan4discussion

Comment 19 by Geoff 21

From a previous thread..

the Muslim receptionist talking about how people are getting shorter over time. My dad asked her what would make her say such a thing, she told him that her religion told her that Noah was over 60 feet tall.

Well of course he was, it just needs interpretation - otherwise there would have been no centipedes saved on the ark to use for measuring!

Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:44:04 UTC | #870556

Vicar of Art on Earth's Avatar Comment 27 by Vicar of Art on Earth

"This Rod and his Staff do not comfort me" "Where are our unicorns, Noah" "Don't rock the ark, Rod" "Wallace, stop making fun of our Bible" "Yards are a measure of oppession, bring back cubits" "Noah was a wash up" "Stop the ark of the incompetence" "This is the ark of public sneaking" "Ark and Science do not mix"

"Rod Wallace is the Anti Christ" " Joseph in Egypt invented Socalisum"

Alfred Wallace he's our man, if science can't do it, no one can! Go evolution

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 03:04:25 UTC | #870628

PY's Avatar Comment 28 by PY

It's extraordinary, how the human mind commits itself to justifying behaviour, not only believing in the story of Noah's Ark but in creating improbable public events like this. You'd think this stuff would be impossible to make up, but there you have it --- and all the more reason for sound science, facts and logic to rule the day. As a Chaplain's son I remain deeply offended that this story and many others like it were forced down my throat as a child. My best response is to yell from the highest plank on the ship "Ok, I'll go! But only if I get to take my fishing rod with me!". That makes as much sense as any part of this fairytale.

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 07:35:35 UTC | #870661

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 29 by Alan4discussion

Further to comment 8 -

I think cartoons would be better than slogans.

I think a picture of two cartoon sea-birds sitting on a nest half way up a cliff, looking at a Heath-Robinson ark out at sea, would be a good idea:

1st bird: "Keep the youngsters away from that thing!"

2nd bird: "That idiot has been running around kidnapping animals and imprisoning them in his stinking boat!"

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:05:09 UTC | #870668

CarolineMary's Avatar Comment 30 by CarolineMary

Sunday 11 September 8.00pm Ridley Hall Evangelical Church, Ph: 020 7720 1819, Broughton Street, Battersea, London, SW8 3RD. (England)

Comment 1 by Stevehill :

These are not major rock and roll venues. Can't help feeling the best medicine here is to ignore the idiot.

I agree Steve - I know it's after the fact, but I used to work in Battersea and I've never heard of that 'church'. Can't find it on the internet either. I Ccan't even see a building that looks like a church on Streetview.

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:57:01 UTC | #870689