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Are atheists the new Jews? - Comments

Quine's Avatar Comment 1 by Quine

Well, that guy would make anyone with an objective view of reality fly off the handle. He knows that if we demand that children be told the truth and not molested, it makes religion hard to keep going.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:05:55 UTC | #885352

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 2 by justinesaracen

Well, of course, we ARE his worst enemies. We see that the Pontiff is morally naked. And we call him on it.

By equating Nazism with atheism, he both defuses his attackers, and diverts attention from his own participation in Nazism, ALL THE WHILE HE WAS A CATHOLIC. Curious that he is able to ignore the fact that millions of self-identifying Christians (including passionately Catholic Austria) were enthusiastic supporters of Hitler. Yes, Virginia, Christianity IS compatible with Nazism.

But the masses who stream into Vatican Square whenever he comes out to (ahem) pontificate, are way past seeing the sleight of hand. Once you're tainted as a child, you will eat up any crap the church feeds you. And if you can't eat it, such as those Catholics who practice birth control, you simply cause that particular message to evaporate and go along with the rest.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:49:51 UTC | #885359

Dixiedog's Avatar Comment 3 by Dixiedog

If there is one book one is allowed to lambast without ever having read, then I suppose that Mein Kampf is that book. So, I've never read it. However, I am reliably informed that it makes numourous references to God and Hitler is at pains to point out his christian credentials. Pope Rat's Arse has perhaps never read Mein Kampf either, so he probably thinks that he's free to claims all kinds of things about Hitler and the Nazis. But surely history teaches us that the Catholic church was in cohoots with Hitler's murderous regime and with Mussolini's too so it just won't wash that atheism had anything to do with the death camps. In fact, I'd go so far as to claim that atheism has never had anything to do with hideous dictatorships. Even if they start out 'atheist' they always end up quasi-religious in nature: slavish adherence to a doctrime, denial of any evidence that may contradict the doctrine and the worship of one man/entity. Of course, religious zealots don't see any of this since they are in a thrall to their religion's tenants and so, therefore, are compelled to reject any evidence to the contrary. So am I outraged by Pope Rat's Arse. No, I pity him for he is living in a dictatorship. Despite the opulence of his surroundings, he is in an intellectual camp. Poor bastard.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:10:45 UTC | #885361

besleybean's Avatar Comment 4 by besleybean

He is a living dictatorship. I don't mean the individual man, I mean his office.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:11:55 UTC | #885372

Lapithes's Avatar Comment 5 by Lapithes

To be fair we did pick a fight with him. I'm glad to see that he feels the need to fight back and to demonstrate his incompetency in it.

(Edit: video of pope doing same last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8006545/Pope-visit-Benedict-XVIs-speech-at-Holyrood-House.html)

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:10:49 UTC | #885384

Lapithes's Avatar Comment 6 by Lapithes

To be fair we did pick a fight with him. I'm glad to see that he feels the need to fight back and to demonstrate his incompetency in it.

Edit: the pope did same last year: video

Transcript

Citation:

Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny”

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:29:46 UTC | #885389

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 7 by Premiseless

What is it he wrangles his conscience over? Is it the confusions of a thousand generations he suspects only enforced afterlife speculations can admonish and depress ambitions to supplant current hierarchies? Is it that he sees all humans desire to each fulfill their potentials and thus compete for the romantic realities, already afforded the elite, rally pernicious possibilities to overthrow what power has established and so need shackling to their own conscience to make them suffer their own plight in silence? Is it a prerequisite of leaders everywhere to condemn ambition that upsets the existent inequalities? Is he saying everyone ought to put up and shut up therefore await chance to change their already doomed plight?

I see how this could be a widespread problem.

I see how education is not easily shared out in ways that enable continued peaceable tolerance of exploitation. I see his need for delusion to trick the oppressed into a prison of self flagellation. It is an equation that enables the less fortunate to leave alone the more fortunate - to enjoy a life most would say all people deserve to lead. This is the stand off which posits religion, therefore the prison of the mind and emotion string puppet, many harbor as various constructs of 'god'.

I see the problem power has in releasing everyone from such bondage. Real education is seen as potential anarchy too free to control. This is the real hard problem all powers of delusion are entrenched in.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:40:14 UTC | #885402

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 8 by Schrodinger's Cat

"The enemies of religion...."

That truly takes the biscuit. In terms of totally corrupting the relatively mild mannered 'golden rule' teachings of the founder of Christianity......I cannot think of a greater 'enemy of religion' than Catholicism. The Pope and his cronies are precisely the sort of peope to whom Jesus would have proclaimed " Woe unto ye...scribes, pharisees, hypocrites ! !

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:18:49 UTC | #885418

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 9 by Mr DArcy

And there was I thinking that all those SS soldiers running the camps exterminating the Jews and others, were good Lutheran and Catholic Christians! Now, Holy Joe has put me straight, - they must have been atheists after all!

What a vile small minded little man. And what a corrupt and decadent organisation!

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:25:10 UTC | #885420

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 10 by MilitantNonStampCollector

Ratzi the paedophile protecting Nazi does it again. His false opinions and lies are as worthless as those of the village drunk. Nothing to see here.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:57:33 UTC | #885429

RomeStu's Avatar Comment 11 by RomeStu

And this from an organisation that actively wishes to canonise Pope Pius XII, who boldly remained neutral during WW2. Pius XII, who as Eugenio Paccelli was papal legate in Germany until 1930, and then as Cardinal Secretary of State signed the German Concordat with Von Papen (Hitler's deputy) in July 1933 - 4 months after Dachau opened. Although originally the main opponent to the nazis, the German Catholic Centre Party voted in favour of the Enabling Act in 1933, giving Hitler's government dictatorial powers for 4 years, and then a couple of months later Paccelli's concordat agreed to the withdrawal of the catholic church from German politics, effectively removing the main opponent ot Nazism. Shortly afterwards Hitler abolished the Catholic Centre Party and then sacked Von Papen anyway.

None of the above means that Pius XII or anyone else at the time was necessarily actively supporting the Nazis and their policies (ok, I'm being kind, but this is supposed to be a civilised forum and I don't want to attract ranters) , but "when good men stand by and do nothing, evil flourishes" .... so making them saints and then blaming atheists instead kind of gets my goat!

The current Pope is running out of distractions for his organisation's horrific crimes, but it takes the cake to link atheists with Nazism given the actual facts of history .... but then again revisionism is par for the course I guess.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:57:41 UTC | #885430

RomeStu's Avatar Comment 12 by RomeStu

"The horrors of the concentration camps reveal with utter clarity the consequences of God’s absence."

Perhaps if god had been a bit less absent (excused due to non-existance) then things wouldn't have got so bad.....

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:01:38 UTC | #885431

Red Dog's Avatar Comment 13 by Red Dog

Are atheists the new Jews?

No we aren't. I'm not Jewish but I have several friends and loved ones who are and especially the older ones among them take the memory of the holocaust pretty seriously. I think the last thing atheists should do is start playing the "we are poor victims" game that so many minorities seem to love. The discrimination atheists face is nothing even close to what Jews have faced historically.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:49:09 UTC | #885458

RomeStu's Avatar Comment 14 by RomeStu

@13 Red Dog - very good point.

However I think the thrust of the article was not that atheists themselves are "playing the victim", but rather that because the RCC is now politiclly unable to use jews as its "bogeyman figure" as it did in the past, the Pope is now turning on atheists in a sad attempt to distract the world from the disgraceful crimes of his organisation. Benedict XVI linking atheism and nazism is just one example of this hypocritical german's desperate need for a PC hate figure to wave in front of the masses while his minions are fiddling with their children.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:47:52 UTC | #885474

PatW's Avatar Comment 15 by PatW

Herr Ratzinger,

Just as Gertrude entrapped herself with her own words, "The lady doth protest too much methinks." (Hamlet Act III, Scene II), so did you commit the same self-entrapment with your own anti-Semitic words. Your own words are what many of us in the US now call - Pulling a Palin. That means clearly expressing anti-Semitism, and then vehemently denying the expression was anti-Semitic. So clear it was, that many Jews and Gentiles couldn't truthfully miss it, because Jews and Gentiles clearly expressed it couldn't be missed.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:11:33 UTC | #885480

hueman0un's Avatar Comment 16 by hueman0un

This lady is absolutely right..

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:11:39 UTC | #885481

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 17 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

This is outrageous. Or, am I flying off the handle here?

Both!

It is outrageous, but don't worry about it. It comes from religionists. It's gibberish. What else can you expect from them?

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:50:03 UTC | #885488

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 18 by Neodarwinian

To answer one of your questions.

That it know it's place and stay in it. Also, that it pays it's fair share of taxes!

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:59:09 UTC | #885492

Helga Vieirch's Avatar Comment 19 by Helga Vieirch

ref. Comment 13 by Red Dog

I too have relatives on one side of my family who died in the Holocaust. I do not consider myself a Jew or a Christian, despite the heritage from my various sets of grandparents and great-grandparents. My reference to atheists as the new "jews" was merely taken from the the text I quoted, where it was pointed out that the Pope is probably picking on the atheists now since, these days, he can no longer with impunity scapegoat the Jewish people as the cause of the first great depression.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 20:08:17 UTC | #885496

PatW's Avatar Comment 20 by PatW

Quite frankly, I have no idea how neutrality was exhibited by any pope. Since, the origin of anti-Semitism came right of the Vatican from the day that organization and theism was instituted and proselytized for around 17 centuries by now.

Hitler did publicly proclaim he was a Catholic for life. Hitler's incessant parade rituals were saturated with Catholic rituals, mysticism and the acts of mass murder committed during the Crusades. Where did Hitler declare himself a Catholic for life? In his autobiography "Mein Kampf".

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 20:10:17 UTC | #885497

Alyson Miers's Avatar Comment 21 by Alyson Miers

It's especially handy that most people swallow the lie that Hitler was an atheist, so Papa Ratzi knows that he's not likely to get a lot of pushback for bringing out that line.

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:16:37 UTC | #885540

Red Dog's Avatar Comment 22 by Red Dog

Comment 19 by Helga Vierich :

ref. Comment 13 by Red Dog

I too have relatives on one side of my family who died in the Holocaust. I do not consider myself a Jew or a Christian, despite the heritage from my various sets of grandparents and great-grandparents. My reference to atheists as the new "jews" was merely taken from the the text I quoted, where it was pointed out that the Pope is probably picking on the atheists now since, these days, he can no longer with impunity scapegoat the Jewish people as the cause of the first great depression.

OK, fair enough. I have to admit I had sort of a gut reaction to the headline but the explanations make sense.

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 00:25:36 UTC | #885569

SheerReason's Avatar Comment 23 by SheerReason

It's probably a bit premature to compare the plight of us atheists with that of the persecution of the Jews throughout history. However, there does seem to be a re-doubled, closely coordinated attack by many seemingly unrelated religious organizations on atheism and freethinking in general. Their agenda is clear. They live in the age of reason. Reason and freedom of expression are their enemies.

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 01:33:56 UTC | #885584

jbkaffe's Avatar Comment 24 by jbkaffe

...Their agenda is clear. They live in the age of reason. Reason and freedom of expression are their enemies.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God/Yahwe, and the Word was God/Yahwe."

So the rest of us better shut it......or else...

It really is quite simple once you see through it, isn't it. :-)

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 02:02:22 UTC | #885589

Sample's Avatar Comment 25 by Sample

I am glad he talks about atheism though his musings are typically offensive populist-stroking rants. I'd rather his nonsense be out in the open instead of secret letters. Bring it on.

Mike

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 02:28:13 UTC | #885597

A. R's Avatar Comment 26 by A. R

Does this mean woodcuts of PZ and Richard mutilating crackers?

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:47:00 UTC | #885612

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 27 by AtheistEgbert

Atheists have been persecuted and killed for centuries. What makes atheism a different genocide to that of others is that atheism is not a group or religion or ethnicity.

Atheists don't help themselves either. Soviet communism lead to the starvation and destruction of millions of fellow communists and therefore atheists too.

Of course, theists have been murdering each other too. Neither theism nor atheism solves the clear insanity of human societies.

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:12:55 UTC | #885671

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 28 by SaganTheCat

it is utterly outrageous but hopefully sense will prevail

atheists are not quite up there with jews when it comes to nazi oppression but it could easily happen. no doubt if a right wing governement were to suggest atheists were the cause of their woes i'm sure ratzi would be more than happy to provide a list of catholics to leave alone. who knows, now he's so liberal maybe he'll provide a list of practicing jews to leave alone as well.

i am in no doubt that if we lived in such times like 30s europe, the pope would be calling for "understanding" among nations while utterly ignoring the plight of us sinners

he is an utterly repugnant human being, his poorly veiled threats are being missed by his followers but one hopes his followers will start to diminish soon.

the fact he's able to make such statements of fact really galls me. anyone else who stated "without my philosophy in place bad things will happen to the human race, end of" would be laughed at.

more pointing and laughing is required until the rest of the world stops deluding themseleves he's just an old fashioned sort of chap who means well

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:41:38 UTC | #885710

KRKBAB's Avatar Comment 29 by KRKBAB

Comment 13 by Red Dog - "I think the last thing atheists should do is start playing the "we are poor victims" game that so many minorities seem to love."- This will surely sound like pedantry, but I'm not sure that's true, other than on a purely superficial comparison level. Jews are often elected as public officials. Not only are atheists not, but it's literally on the books as illegal in some states (USA) still. And many atheists were tortured and killed through-out history. Having millions of Jews killed in the 20th century and also antisemitism in general through out history pretty much is on top of the human horrors list. Women, darker colored races (globally speaking) and non heterosexuals have been systematically bullied (and killed) through-out history in large numbers also. Obviously though, the concentrated killing of so many Jews in such a short time span during the holocaust highlighted antisemitism in an absurdly horrific way. A huge number of people were killed in Europe who were declared witches also- not just in such a short time as the atrocities committed by Nazis. If this sounds like insensitive pedantics- my apologies. But I think the contemporary notion of "playing the victim card" is overstated when it comes to pointing out that other groups of people have been massively persecuted also.

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:37:56 UTC | #885728

KRKBAB's Avatar Comment 30 by KRKBAB

A little more on topic this time (sorry), is that no, Helga, I see it as outrageous too and I don't think you're over reacting. In shifting the blame of their own horrors and just trying to avert attention from their utter inept and hapless criminal organization, the Vatican just seems to be in the process of changing over from the new "Jews are the root of all our problems" to "Atheists are the root of all or problems" policy. It probably all happened in a board member meeting. Except the board members all wore silly outdated costumes. Let's face it- Catholicism is up against the ropes and they're pulling out all of the stops- even the real ugly ones that they know have little chance of being effective. It definitely looks just like desperation to me.

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:49:21 UTC | #885731