This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Sanctimonious male virgins have no authority on sexual & reproductive issues

Sanctimonious male virgins have no authority on sexual & reproductive issues - Comments

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 1 by potteryshard

The issue at hand is whether employers should be able to impose their beliefs on their employees.

I'd say there is an even more fundamental and crucial issue at hand... By what right do these sanctimonious busybodies claim the legal and moral authority to strive to impose their beliefs on anyone other than their adherents? They can make whatever arbitrary rules they want for their own people (who largely ignore said rules) but pushing the same rules for others is the true original sin.

Maybe they push religious dictates through politics and legislation because the Catholics themselves are laughing off the Bishop's meddling. If only our politicians had the courage to ignore the Bishops to the extent the that the Catholic flock does.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:15:58 UTC | #922252

Sample's Avatar Comment 2 by Sample

I like not having to reinvent the wheel. I'll send one to our local diocese

Letter printed (with a few tweaks) and it will be mailed today.

Thank you!

Mike Edit: I ended up faxing it (probably more people will pass it around that way).

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:55:21 UTC | #922270

CdnMacAtheist's Avatar Comment 3 by CdnMacAtheist

Speaking as an ex-Scot atheist living in Toronto, I fully agree with this OP. This protection of citizens employed by religious institutions (those taking funds from the State to provide public services) from the imposition of faith-based doctrines is what democratic & secular government should be all about.

This continual demand for respect and accommodation of delusional memeplexes is about the biggest social problem holding the USA back from being a truly respected free country. The social and political pandering to religious institutions, their lobbyists and voters is not just a cause of world-wide ridicule, but of fears that the best Secular Democracy in the world is heading into a 'Christian' Theocracy that will take the USA back into the 19th century, and thus enable socially indoctrinated religious cults to continue their quest for world domination.

There are different ways for widespread cults to take over populations - some are backed by huge finances, many by acts of intimidation and violence, most are tied to political ideologies, all are supported by moderates who are evolving from their fundamental beliefs (especially those no longer under threat of death) and who are not living as their religions demand - but unwilling or unable to speak out.

The religious 'authorities' don't represent the actual beliefs, actions and morals of their flocks - as the IPSO-Mori Poll in the UK just demonstrated (although the USA is behind much of Western Europe in the outgrowing of faith viruses) - and we can hope that the Zeitgeist will move (asap), as it has elsewhere among reasoning people. Peace. Think. Evolve.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:56:02 UTC | #922272

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 4 by Premiseless

Mature and civilised debate is not the agenda of catholics inherited dogmatic insistence.

In this respect the problem is always demanding preservation. It will not relinquish the very territory required to secure intelligent outcomes. And then to cap it all, it suggests a superior intelligence said it must be so. Quite preposterous.

No wonder belief preserves the tribal codes of past, much cruder forms of family feuds!

Partly, this is why I was impressed by The Arch in Oxford employing reason counter to an ancient writings demands. A believer believing reason is responsible and essential to make it worth having a brain in the first place!

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:10:24 UTC | #922334

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 5 by Alan4discussion

@OP - Sanctimonious male virgins have no authority on sexual & reproductive issues

In male dominated primate (and other mammalian) groups, alpha males repress the sexual activities of others in the group.

It is therefore unsurprising that pseudo-alpha males (unrelated father figures) should carry out such activities as exercising their "authority" acting the part. They are servile to others above them in their hierarchy, deviously aggressive against any opposition, and ruthless in the sorts of characters with whom they will make alliances: - while posturing peace, honesty and forgiveness!

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:54:36 UTC | #922469

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 6 by QuestioningKat

Your title lacks a crucial point... "Sanctimonious male virgins have no authority on sexual & reproductive issues for women. I think the label of "sausage fest" used by Jon Stewart is very telling. A group of ALL MEN telling women what to do with their bodies is worse than telling a woman she only needs to use one square of toilet paper. Butt out guys, tend to your own garden.

I think all Catholic women need to boycott one month of Sundays and instead meet elsewhere to hold mass. Yes, they will be "sinning", but it certainly would send a message.

Your letter also needs to state that you certainly do not speak for Catholic women... otherwise your just another sanctimonious male on the other side of the issue.

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:58:40 UTC | #922470

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 7 by Schrodinger's Cat

The Catholic church cannot be damned enough. It is without a doubt one of the most evil and hypocritical organisations ever to have existed. One can only hope there is an extra hot place in hell for it's leaders.

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 21:47:51 UTC | #922565

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 8 by Border Collie

S. Cat ... agree completely. The pervasive unending attempted control of natural bodily functions by the devoid (my new term for the devout) has been pissing me off for about six decades now. So, sky pilots, keep your filthy, perverted hands off my penis AND my brain!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 02:17:15 UTC | #922628

Rob Schneider's Avatar Comment 9 by Rob Schneider

First, what is with all the cats? Followed by a border collie? but I digress.

I think the most important argument we can consistently, and loudly make is "Institutions do not have beliefs." The concept of "free exercise" applies to individuals.

Oh, wait... There is that pesky "Citizens United" ruling, granting "people-hood" to corporations. I'm sure something similar is coming for churches. We MUST get back to a situation where the focus is on individual, not organizational rights.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:08:03 UTC | #922665

Vicar of Art on Earth's Avatar Comment 10 by Vicar of Art on Earth

Who says they are virgins, there seems lots of publicity about the money they are putting out in abuse settlements and the out of wedlock children that pop up, something is going on. Chaucer, The Dcameron, Voltaire, and many stories of Western civiliztion center on the sexual adventures of church people.

As many have pointed out, their obsession with gay sex is beyond belief and they need to learn about safe sex and practice it. Praying after sex is not protection, safe sinning, or polite abusing. If anyone needs free and readily available good sex education and birth control like condoms it is the holy.

Given the Roman Church puts the church/corporation above it's beliefs, it would be in their best interest to cut the scandals of Cardinal-Parents and HIV infected priests and nuns.

Can we now get back to the cost benefits of killing young gay people and harvesting organs by pork eating interest charging fundimentalists from around the World.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:51:22 UTC | #922674

mmsood99's Avatar Comment 11 by mmsood99

Sent it to two diocese...I live close to a state border (NH/MA)

Thanks!

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:56:41 UTC | #922690

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 12 by QuestioningKat

Comment 9 by Rob Schneider :

First, what is with all the cats? Followed by a border collie? but I digress.

Really! What's with that? I just ran across another cat today. Actually Kat is my name, as in Kathryn.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:05:13 UTC | #922774

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 13 by Schrodinger's Cat

Virginity is such an absurd concept. I can't think of any other bodily function that has a word associated with the first time one does it. There's no word for whether a person has ever had a headache, or done a fart, or picked their nose, or had a bath, or cut their hair, or eaten spaghetti bolognese for the first time. Yet the obsession of religion with sexual parts ensures there's one for that.

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:52:43 UTC | #922912

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 14 by xmaseveeve

They say that sex is for procreation, but they are turning a baby into a curse. If you use contraception, you are escaping God's punishment for fornication. How wrong is that?

Of all the thousands of catholics I've known or been related to, I've only known three who actually didn't use contraception. One was a priest, one a nun and the other had 10 children and was the worst drummer you ever heard...

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:31:46 UTC | #922960

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 15 by irate_atheist

Fuck the Pope.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 20:02:58 UTC | #923224

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 16 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 15 by irate_atheist

Fuck the Pope.

As daubed on many an Ulster gable wall....a see one of the Pope's men in the news again this evening....only his fourth fuckin' conviction you understand.

Bishop apologises over paedophile priest

....to be continued.

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:12:32 UTC | #923254

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 17 by xmaseveeve

Ha ha - in Glasgow they even abbreviate it to FTP - they've got to be quick with the big Strathclyde Polis!

Thu, 01 Mar 2012 00:19:03 UTC | #923314

DJGutekunst's Avatar Comment 18 by DJGutekunst

QuestioningKat - you are quite right, and the point is well-taken. I failed to spell out "for women" in the title, and in no way mean to imply that I speak for Catholic women. And I agree that as usual, Jon Stewart and Colbert have nailed this issue. Cheers!

Comment 6 by QuestioningKat :

"Your title lacks a crucial point... "Sanctimonious male virgins have no authority on sexual and reproductive issues for women...Your letter also needs to state that you certainly do not speak for Catholic women... otherwise your just another sanctimonious male on the other side of the issue."

Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:26:28 UTC | #923352

SalGagliano's Avatar Comment 19 by SalGagliano

I think it's a non-issue trotted out for purposes of distracting Americans from what should be the real question: Why is the government continuing to mandate a health care system that is run and managed by private insurance companies? Health care should not exist as fringe benefit of employment. It's an essential service.

Fri, 16 Mar 2012 06:31:49 UTC | #927719