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← Geoffrey Robertson vs the Catholic Church – some thoughts from the GAC

Geoffrey Robertson vs the Catholic Church – some thoughts from the GAC - Comments

zeerust2000's Avatar Comment 1 by zeerust2000

Just imagine if these things were perpetrated by a secular multi-national corporation, instead of the Catholic Church. There would be hell to pay.

Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:52:19 UTC | #937021

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 2 by Tyler Durden

In response to the Victorian government's investigation into child sex abuse claims against the Catholic church, would-be Prime Minister of Australia, Tony Abbott said:

"There has been a lot of pretty gruesome behaviour in many institutions over the years and we should be careful not to single out particular institutions, given that a lot of this has been or it was pandemic a generation ago."

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:05:23 UTC | #937025

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 3 by MilitantNonStampCollector

Robertsons' The Case of the Pope should be recommended reading.

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:02:00 UTC | #937275

maria melo's Avatar Comment 4 by maria melo

we should be careful not to single out particular institutions

That´s precisely one of the reasons to consider it a sistematic crime, capable of being held as crime against humanity, isn´t it ? The sense of morality is all tangled up when justice needs to be done against such a "sacred" figure as the pope.

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:34:35 UTC | #937308

maria melo's Avatar Comment 5 by maria melo

I mean not the crime itself but the policy of covering up it was sistematic, and the cover up of a crime may be itself considered as crime. I don´t know any news about the development of the charge in the ICC, how long will it take to decide. It´s a pity that Hitchens cannot follow it anymore as he wished.

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:11:00 UTC | #937322

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 6 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

Comment 1 by zeerust2000 Just imagine if these things were perpetrated by a secular multi-national corporation, instead of the Catholic Church. There would be hell to pay.

It really is incredible how almost the whole of society is unable to grasp the seriousness of crimes when they are committed in a religious context. Aside from these cases of child rape by Catholic priests, every year thousands of children from Western countries have their genitals mutilated for superstitious reasons. And this is still going on. Yet there is scarcely any concern among politicians, the police or even the media.

Why is the media not interested? They love a scandal. They love stories about abuse of children. Yet they've hardly touched these issues at all. Surely the rape or mutilation of just a single child is far more serious than the story about News of the World eavesdropping on a few answer phone messages, a story that regularly fills the first 5 pages of my newspaper. But even 100,000 cases of child rape doesn't seem to interest them. Would a million cases of child rape interest them? 10 million? Would it interest them if every child in Britain had their genitals mutilated? How bad does religious behaviour have to be before it raises more than an eyebrow?

Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:03:25 UTC | #937556

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 7 by xmaseveeve

Geoffrey, congratulations on today's verdict! I have been a fan for years. You are brilliant. Did you see my thread by Eammon O'Neill, about Lombardo? He told me other stuff which wasn't in the article. Very shocking, brazen criminals who essentially laugh and say catch us of you can. They blatantly lie, and they close ranks. Then they deny meetings even took place.

How can anyone be held to account unless we focus on particular institutions? Single them out! The Anglicans too - and get into the mosques. Demand access to the Vatican records. The Pope was in charge of a cover-up. How dare they hide behind their corrupt institutions? No one is above the law and they are common criminals.

Geoffrey, thank you for keeping going! Is there a petition we could sign?

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 02:02:19 UTC | #937604

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 8 by xmaseveeve

I derailed my own comment! I meant to say that, after today's precedent, Benny Frill has nowhere to hide. GR, please let me know if I can be of any help. I would be poud to carry your clipboard and raincoat! I am also a good interviewer, because people assume I'm daft (can't think why...).

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 03:40:26 UTC | #937613

nick keighley's Avatar Comment 9 by nick keighley

Comment 6 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee :

[...] every year thousands of children from Western countries have their genitals mutilated for superstitious reasons. And this is still going on. Yet there is scarcely any concern among politicians, the police or even the media.Why is the media not interested? They love a scandal. They love stories about abuse of children. Yet they've hardly touched these issues at all. Surely the rape or mutilation of just a single child is far more serious than the story about News of the World eavesdropping on a few answer phone messages, a story that regularly fills the first 5 pages of my newspaper. But even 100,000 cases of child rape doesn't seem to interest them. Would a million cases of child rape interest them? 10 million? Would it interest them if every child in Britain had their genitals mutilated? How bad does religious behaviour have to be before it raises more than an eyebrow?

it isn't completly ignored in the UK. From the NSPCC's site NSPCC FGM policy

[links don't seem to work well on this site]

http://www.nhserewash.com/safeguarding/NSPCC%20Policy%20Summary.pdf/ "NSPCC policy on FGM"

it contravenes several UN conventions and is specifically in violation of UK law "FGM has been a criminal offence in the UK since the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985".

Amnesty International has also campaigned against it.

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:23:14 UTC | #938163

xmaseveeve's Avatar Comment 10 by xmaseveeve

It's high time the mysterious euphemism, 'female circumcision' (which can mean different things) was changed to 'female genital mutilation', which is more explicit and accurate, and much more serious than the similarly-named male version.

Even the word 'prevention' waters down the seriousness of the crime. Do we refer to prevention of rape laws? Do serial killers break the prevention of murder laws? The word 'prevention' stops it even being called a crime. It implies something not punishable when not prevented.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 02:24:02 UTC | #938269

EvN's Avatar Comment 11 by EvN

Comment 9 by nick keighley

"FGM has been a criminal offence in the UK since the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985".

FGM has been a criminal offence since assault became a criminal offence in the UK. The Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act is political smoke and mirrors.

Comment 10 by xmaseveeve

It's high time the mysterious euphemism, 'female circumcision' (which can mean different things) was changed to 'female genital mutilation', which is more explicit and accurate, and much more serious than the similarly-named male version.

Not 'female genital mutilation." ASSAULT.

This is sexual molestation and its proper designation is SEXUAL ASSAULT of a child. In most cases this would also be assault with the intention to do grievous bodily harm.

The word 'prevention' stops it even being called a crime. It implies something not punishable when not prevented.

Indeed. We do not have a "Prohibition of having sex with a woman without her consent Act." Rape is handled by the common law as is assault.

We need to call a spade a spade.

Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:26:49 UTC | #938301

raytoman's Avatar Comment 12 by raytoman

If they had over 10,000 children sexually abused by over 800 paedophile priests in a small country like Holland where cayjolicism isn't even the main religion, the global number of victims must be in the millions, not thousands.

The fact that the RC Church (arguably the worlds largest paedophile organisation) refuses to recruit married people as Priests and Nuns and will sack those who subsequently marry, suggests their recruitment requirement is either aimed at or favours sexually abnormal people.

Those of you who agree that homosexuality is normal for about 10% of the population will also understand why homosexuals would join or why latent homosexuality would prosper in RC employees. This is not the problem, it is the paedophiles who are encouraged by the access to children, power over them and their parents and the almost 100% successful protection from prosecution offered by teh RC Church. In fact, their policy seems to be to move them on to other potential new victims and in some cases, move them out of the country or to the protection of the Vatican City where they cannot be extradited.

The 800+ paedophile priests in Hollond cannot be successfully prosecuted it seems because of the continuing protection of the RC Church. Few of the guilty in Ireland have been prosecuted, even though paedophilia was found to be systemic in RC run instutitions.

Good luck to Robertson and anyone who takes on these odious criminals. Ratzinger should be charged with crimes against humanity and his paedophiles should all be identified and prosecuted. I have no faith in this happening.

Wed, 02 May 2012 00:03:05 UTC | #938857

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 13 by Alan4discussion

It seems covering up is good for promotion within the RCC

Here is some news from Ireland!

Cardinal Brady 'failed to act on sex abuse claims' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17894419

New revelations about the failure of the Catholic primate of all-Ireland to protect children from abuse have been uncovered by the BBC's This World show.

It found Cardinal Sean Brady had the names and addresses of those being abused by paedophile priest Brendan Smyth, but did not ensure their safety.

The investigation centres on a secret church inquiry in 1975 when a 14-year-old boy was questioned about abuse.

Smyth abused him and others in guesthouses on trips across Ireland.

In 1975, Cardinal Brady was a priest and teacher in County Cavan in the Republic of Ireland, when he was sent by his bishop to investigate a claim of child sexual abuse by a fellow priest.

That priest was later exposed as Ireland's most prolific paedophile, Father Brendan Smyth.

The first child to tell his parents about the abuse was 14-year-old Brendan Boland.

The man tasked with the secret church investigation that followed would later become the most senior priest in Ireland.

Sean Brady's role in the affair became clear in 2010, when it became known that he had been present when the abused boy was questioned.

He claimed, however, that the boy's father had accompanied him, and described his own role as that of a note-taker.

However, the BBC This World investigation has uncovered the notes Cardinal Brady took while the boy was questioned.

The child's father was not allowed in the room, and the child was immediately sworn to secrecy.

What Cardinal Brady failed to tell anyone in 2010 was that Brendan Boland had also given him and his colleagues the precise details of a group of children, some of whom, were being abused by Smyth.

Cardinal Brady did interview one of them and swore him to secrecy.

Cardinal Sean Brady has issued his response to the BBC's This World documentary, The Shame of the Catholic Church. - Here is the full text of his statement. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17926449

Wed, 02 May 2012 12:46:22 UTC | #938997

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 14 by Tyler Durden

Comment 13 by Alan4discussion :

It seems covering up is good for promotion within the RCC.

Here is some news from Ireland!

Cardinal Brady 'failed to act on sex abuse claims'

According to Sean Brady:

"In 1975 no State or Church guidelines existed in the Republic of Ireland to assist those responding to an allegation of abuse against a minor. No training was given to priests, teachers, police officers or others who worked regularly with children about how to respond appropriately should such allegations be made;

and:

"Even according to the State guidelines in place in the Republic of Ireland today, the person who first receives and records the details of an allegation of child abuse in an organisation that works with children is not the person who has responsibility within that organisation for reporting the matter to the civil authorities. This responsibility belongs to the 'Designated person' appointed by the organisation and trained to assume that role. In 1975, I would not have been the 'Designated Person' according to today's guidelines;

Yet more mis-direction, hand-wringing, obsfucation and equivocation from RCC hierarchy.

I really hope nobody is waiting on Brady to sound a fire-alarm, call 999, and alert the fire brigade if needs be. He might claim not to have the proper training to do so, or claim not to be the first person who noticed the impending blaze.

Wed, 02 May 2012 13:18:50 UTC | #939002

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 15 by Alan4discussion

Comment 14 by Tyler Durden

I really hope nobody is waiting on Brady to sound a fire-alarm, call 999, and alert the fire brigade if needs be. He might claim not to have the proper training to do so, or claim not to be the first person who noticed the impending blaze.

Even a clerk taking notes, could reasonably be expected to follow up and check that action was being taken!

... But the misleading statement about the father and the "child sworn to secrecy" gives it away.

Why am I not surprised by a, "not my fault" response? (It disappeared into the bureaucracy and nobody asked any questions about how it was progressing!) - sounds familiar - (nobody was designated as having responsibility, so we're all absolved!!!!!) - The sheeples will swallow that - won't they?

Wed, 02 May 2012 13:34:58 UTC | #939007

EvN's Avatar Comment 16 by EvN

From the Statement:

"In 1975 no State or Church guidelines existed in the Republic of Ireland to assist those responding to an allegation of abuse against a minor. No training was given to priests, teachers, police officers or others who worked regularly with children about how to respond appropriately should such allegations be made; ...

Strangely enough, I personally reported abuse against a minor by a family member a few years ago. I had no "guidelines" or "training" or "responsibility" either and went "against the family's wishes."

How do these people think decent people should behave in the face of child abuse? Ignore it?

(Personal Note: On top of that, I was treated with suspicion by the dogmatically Christian authorities because of my agnosticism. I did not declare my out-and-out atheism at that stage - too dangerous for the child's case. Atheists are immoral and make up lies against "spiritual" people don't you know?

The family (thankfully) disowned me and the sister who supported me, but that was a small price to pay for the safety and happiness of a small child. The little girl was eventually removed from the family member and is now thriving, BUT we had to fight like lionesses AGAINST the Christians in the family!)

Wed, 02 May 2012 14:53:50 UTC | #939027

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 17 by Alan4discussion

Guess what has been found in Mexico? - But don't worry - the VATICAN is investgating!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/vatican-investigating-child-abuse-cases-113353279.html - The ultra-conservative Legion of Christ movement on Friday said it had reported seven suspected cases of child abuse by its priests to the Vatican for investigation under new anti-abuse rules.

Six of the cases "are from decades ago" and one "refers to recent events," the movement said in a statement, adding that it had taken precautions such as "restricting the priestly ministry of the accused" to protect children.

The Legion did not give further details about the cases but said it had received allegations about abuse "in several countries" and that internal preliminary investigations found that seven "had a semblance of truth."

...

The Legion of Christ's late founder Father Marcial Maciel was accused of having an illegitimate daughter and abusing eight seminarians.

The movement expanded hugely under late pope John Paul II and is now present in 22 countries, particularly in Latin America.

It has 800 priests, 2,500 seminarians and 70,000 lay people among its members and it also manages 12 universities.

Fri, 11 May 2012 19:04:26 UTC | #941067

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 18 by Alan4discussion

"For 30 years, as Cardinal Ratzinger, from 1981 on, he was in charge of what to do about paedophile priests and he declined on the whole to even defrock them.

...and then there's this:-

Vatican Bank chief Tedeschi dismissed - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18200083

The bank's board of directors unanimously passed a no-confidence vote in Mr Gotti Tedeschi, a statement said.

It said he had failed "to carry out duties of primary importance", but it did not elaborate.

In 2010 Italian police launched an investigation against Mr Gotti Tedeschi as part of a money-laundering inquiry.

The Vatican Bank has been headed by Mr Gotti Tedeschi, 62, a trained economist, since 2009.

When Mr Gotti Tedeschi was placed under investigation in 2010, the Vatican said it was "perplexed and astonished", and expressed full confidence in him.

See no evil - hear no evil - investigate no evil??? The pattern looks familiar!

It said the matter was the result of a misunderstanding, and that none of its employees was involved in any wrongdoing.

As part of the inquiry, Italian tax police seized 23m euros ($29m, £18.4m) that the Vatican Bank had tried to transfer from a small Italian bank called Credito Artigiano.

Fri, 25 May 2012 19:17:03 UTC | #943550