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living in the watchtower - Comments

C.Wood's Avatar Comment 1 by C.Wood

Hello fellow countryman! :)

I'd suggest taking her to museums, showing her lots of documentaries on science, wild life, etc. These have a way to make children use their brains. Children love to learn, after all.

Answer all her questions truthfully and with reasonable arguments. There's no real competition for the actual truth. Replace magic superstition with reason and knowledge. Simple formula, I hope.

Or... You could have a chat with your in-laws. "Look, she'll pick her religion herself, when she's older. No need to indoctrinate her now, she's just a baby!"

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:09:50 UTC | #949498

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 2 by Premiseless

The most difficult transition is to develop her emotional dependency to rational individuals and groups, absent reliance and convergence upon their emotive network of peurile theism, concealing a trapdoor. Their shiny cloak conceals an unseen silver dagger. Pass through their water and your life is up for auction to their delusions, else you get sold down the river of emotional darkness and silent discourse. Also they have some pretty weird, covert, power influences. I've learned to utterly detest their holistic lies and how they act like they have "owned" those who got ducked in their delusions - by later "love" rejections ( so they will implode and come back begging for god) despite having had all secular friendships cut due their dogma claiming it a satanic necessity at best (secular people are only to be included as an essential to tolerate the JW agenda but must not be seen as genuine friends - the emotions must not let down the wall satan awaits your relaxing - else you might get too bonded or even shag a "worldly". N.B. They state Satan runs the world, hence worldly!) . Whatever you do especially promote secular associations with people so her emotional development doesn't become co dependent upon listening to myth filled mumbo jumbo - which they pedal surreptitiously ad nauseum.

The most potent thing of course is when an open dialogue has been nurtured between what your daughter thinks, feels and believes to be her own educated progress. What does she think and is she unafraid to test out her thoughts? If she has an interest in doing so, you have a relatively simple task to present myth and its historical dominance against the past few centuries of exponentially increasing findings humans have sourced about ourselves. Then how the residue of myth still displays its shadows the world over.

Hopefully she will get this concept and then see beyond all myth mongering as always being the result of assertive humans guessing stuff they then claim as unquestionable - masquerading in truth as their own wishes and delusions they try to impose on others.

What theists do is hard wire, by covert seduction, young minds against "testing god" per se, in all manner of ways. They almost have this off to a finely honed drip drip drip, as with the fashion sense next generations always seem to hold against their parents - or similar.

Best wishes with your daughter!

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:22:29 UTC | #949502

crucialfictionofjesus's Avatar Comment 3 by crucialfictionofjesus

Frank Zappa had it right- "the best thing I could for my kids is to keep them well away from religion" You owe it to your daughter to take a stand, shocking as that may be to the in-laws; YOU are parent and guardian, not them.

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:54:31 UTC | #949507

zengardener's Avatar Comment 4 by zengardener

Move out.

Take your kids to visit them often.

Tell them that you don't want them telling your children fairy tales.

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:11:23 UTC | #949511

VrijVlinder's Avatar Comment 5 by VrijVlinder

Your situation sounds familiar. My father was afraid I would be indoctrinated catholic by my mother and relatives. He was jewish and did not think he was indoctrinating but he was too. They decided after many fights that I would not be influenced either way and that when I was old enough I would choose my own way.

This sounds like a good idea if you can stick to it. They did not, however I think I was born immune to indoctrination if that is possible, and nothing they ever threw at me religion and indoctrination wise, stuck. Maybe the brainwashing was not consistent like their idea of leaving me alone about religion .

You could set limits with your in-laws and ask they respect your desire to raise your child the way you see fit. Ask them to abstain from religiosity around your child until she is old enough to choose on her own.

Then you must enforce this. If it is the only thing you should have the right to ask it is this. Even if you live in their house.

I also recommend listening to Hendrix All along the watchtower. Loudly if possible. There is a good message in there ...

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:56:56 UTC | #949524

papa lazaru's Avatar Comment 6 by papa lazaru

You were raised a catholic, right? And you didn't turn up too bad.

When she discovers Santa or the tooth fairy aren't real, maybe it's a good time to point out that some people never grow out of it.

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:19:04 UTC | #949526

DocWebster's Avatar Comment 7 by DocWebster

My mom has been a Witless for over 30 years now and we've had all of the arguments. She stopped trying to use "logic" to get me to meetings when I could answer every argument she had. The next attempt was visits by elders in her congregation. When they started to admonish me for not showing proper respect I knew I had won that round. Now I just get the yearly guilt trip around my birthday where she laments that I haven't found the truth yet and she worries about what will happen to me in the end times. She's taken both of my daughters to meeting at various times because I really see no point in making religion a forbidden subject. So far they have not been impressed, in fact my youngest calls going to meeting the most boring circus you'll ever see. She says the difference between church and a circus is that there's only one performer in church. He does all the tricks, but you don't get to see them. You just have to believe they were done and you loved them. Odds are you daughter will see the stupidity of religion and never be drawn to it, it's the kids that never get a break from having that bullshit pounded into them that end up being brainwashed.

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 01:00:30 UTC | #949537

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 8 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:19:19 UTC | #949553

Chala's Avatar Comment 9 by Chala

This may be easy for me to say but I'll say it anyway. Tell your in-laws you do not want them to involve your child in their religious engagements, or give instructions on prayers/observances at home. They are likely to oppose such an arrangement but I think you can just say (as you already have it) - I respect you, not your ideas. Also you might want to let them know that you'd otherwise like your child to spend time with them. Assert your right to provide the environment you want for your own child.

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:56:50 UTC | #949554

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 10 by QuestioningKat

zengardener offered up good common sense advice. Blunt and to the point.

People who are in subordinate positions are not taken seriously because it challenges the person in charged. You can only be taken seriously when you are an outsider standing on your own principles.

Do everything you can to take steps to move.

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:22:44 UTC | #949557

78rpm's Avatar Comment 11 by 78rpm

Depending on the in-laws' attitude toward your living there, you can either move out now (good advice from comments 10 and 4), or tell them that you will absolutely not remain there if you perceive that they are trying to influence the child's thoughts. Make it clear that you are adamant on this matter. And remind them every so often; if you don't know what they said to her that makes you bring up the subject, they do. This needs to be done now, ever though the girl is barely beginning to be verbal---nip it in the bud. I wish you strength.

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:44:52 UTC | #949579

DocWebster's Avatar Comment 12 by DocWebster


Shithovah's Witless' . Damn that's funny

My mom has a heart condition though so I won't be mentioning it to her, still it's damn funny

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:56:07 UTC | #949587

InTheMiddle's Avatar Comment 13 by InTheMiddle

...Wow, never thought this topic would get through...

Thanks for the comments and advice everyone.

Moving out is the plan and me and my wife have been planing for the end of the year but ultimately the problem remains. Telling them not to give witness and not to practice their religion is easy but to have them put that in practice is impossible, unless i had the memory eraser from MIB. If i can't convince them that the world is older than 6000 years how can i convince them to be neutral around a "person of the world"?

I'm sure my daughter will be enlightened by many other subjects ahead of religion, it just bothers me that my in-laws are most likely willing to tarnish any sort of relationship with their daughter and me to keep witnessing. It's nothing new, my wife and her older sister are what remains of the family, everyone else just cut them loose. I believe they are at a point in the religious fanaticism of the JWs, from what i have read, that they care more for their brothers and sisters than blood related family. it's not that this situation affects me, (comment 6) my past has made me a fairly cold person due to choosing to be homeless over following my parents religious insanity, so i have no problem in cutting off the weak stems, it's that my daughter is begining to bond with some family members especially her youngest aunt and it kills me to bet on a failed relationship. It's hard letting go.

I guess this happens to everyone in their life, i just hope this doesn't happen so early and with a family member. But hey, looking on the brighter side, maybe one day my daughter might do a better job convincing them that the earth is older than 6000 years than i can.

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:11:51 UTC | #949927

TJ Curioso's Avatar Comment 14 by TJ Curioso

Hi INTHEMIDDLE. I understand Your worries. I'm portuguese too. Until recently I was a elder in the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I left because I understand that there were many things wrong in the religion (pedophilia/blood_fractions, etc.).

We have in Portugal a portuguese forum about Jehovah's Witnesses, who pretend help people like you. If you have any interest came visit us here and talk to us:

With best regards, TJ Curioso

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:53:46 UTC | #950029

Zoey218's Avatar Comment 15 by Zoey218

My mother is a JW, but my father was not. I was allowed to make up my own mind. And when I was old enough to see the flaws in their thinking, I rejected the religion.

Just ensure your daughter is always allowed to think for herself and not blindly follow others.

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:21:05 UTC | #950042

Roger Belmar's Avatar Comment 16 by Roger Belmar

I agree with the first comment. One of my favourite places in London is the Natural History Museum and it's wonderful to see how many parents bring their children along. I also agree with Richard Dawkins that there is no such thing as a Muslim or Christian child. Children should be allowed space to think for themselves.

Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:33:57 UTC | #950370

Corylus's Avatar Comment 17 by Corylus

Comment 16 by Roger Belmar :

I agree with the first comment. One of my favourite places in London is the Natural History Museum and it's wonderful to see how many parents bring their children along.

It is a lovely place. It can also be an entertaining place to take a child to. On a recent visit with No1. Niece I pointed out a statue of an old guy with a beard sitting in a chair...

"Who is that?" I said.

"Dunno" she said.

"A clue." I said, "His initials are CD".

"Oh duh!" she said, "Charles Dickens"

We went to the gift shop to look at the purdy rocks after this.

Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:04:31 UTC | #950375

Barbara Necker's Avatar Comment 18 by Barbara Necker

There probably isn't much you can do short of moving out. Believers are usually utterly convinced they and their religion are right. I once worked for a very nice JW woman, who was usually very good about controlling her impulses to evangelize, but one day we did get into a slight discussion about religion. I'm an agnostic, & when I called her religion a "philosophy," she got all huffy & proclaimed it was NOT a philosophy, but "the word of god."

Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:47:35 UTC | #950379