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Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

merlinaeus's Avatar Jump to comment 33 by merlinaeus

How can a church that is so divided on this issue produce so one-sided a statement?

Quite. Grrrr

Quoted from this

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:24:49 UTC | #947104

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

merlinaeus's Avatar Jump to comment 118 by merlinaeus

It's not only the uneducated RC's who don't know the doctrine of transubstantiation and therefore don't know the 'correct' answer to the survey question. The educated ones question transubstantiation too. For example the learned Sebastian Moore is about as critical as he can be without actually stating he doesn't believe in it. But I'm pretty certain that he still regards himself as a Roman Catholic.

Oh, in connection with 'this is my body/blood', Moore also says that Aramaic has no word for 'is'; the word has been added in the Greek (assuming Jesus said the words of institution, and said them in Aramaic). If that is so, then the phrase is: 'This my body/blood', with no verb at all, and pleasing ambiguity to play with. Augustine and others did that very nicely: Augustine refers to the bread and wine as representing the Body of Christ, and bids the congregation: 'It is your own mystery lying there on the altar ... Be what you see, receive what you are'.

So there is a rich history of interpretation prior to the doctrine of transubstantiation, which suggests it was never intended to be understood as some bald mechanistic process.

I'm not RC, so I have no need to defend transubstantiation. It does interest me though.

Sat, 09 Jun 2012 19:20:00 UTC | #946609

Go to: How to tell if you’re an atheist

merlinaeus's Avatar Jump to comment 9 by merlinaeus

One of the patterns we have observed, not surprisingly, is that many clergy don’t identify with the label “atheist” even though, from some perspectives, they share many of the same characteristics as atheists, including not believing in the supernatural.

Reminds me of a tweeted comment by Rev Giles Fraser (24/1/12)

"Dawkins says he is 6.9/7 sure there is no God. I am 7/7 sure that there is no God as Dawkins imagines him."

But he didn't go on to elaborate.

Thu, 31 May 2012 16:39:13 UTC | #944773

Go to: Come Ye Out From Among Them, 3 former preachers talk about Coming Out.

merlinaeus's Avatar Jump to comment 19 by merlinaeus

Comment 13 by Schrodinger's Cat :

If we ever invent a time machine, the first thing we should do is send Dave Allen back to the first century.

They'd have crucified him too.

Wed, 02 May 2012 06:40:13 UTC | #938944

Go to: Come Ye Out From Among Them, 3 former preachers talk about Coming Out.

merlinaeus's Avatar Jump to comment 7 by merlinaeus

Comment 3 by Schrodinger's Cat :

. Sort of makes you realise why nobody cracks a single joke in the whole Bible.

Well, I'm not so sure. What about all the puns on names in Genesis, or the antics of that buffoon Abraham at the oaks of Mamre? Or the incomprehensible parable of the unjust steward, or the tale of the Gadarene swine which is a veiled swipe at Roman occupation?

I find it impossible to imagine these stories being told without a twinkle in the eye. I think they would have been treated as starting points for rabbinic-style teaching, extemporisation and debate, rather than enshrined as the last word on the matter.

Tue, 01 May 2012 07:31:47 UTC | #938587

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