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Go to: Atheist Jokes ?

joecatholic's Avatar Jump to comment 168 by joecatholic

It does not help. I am entitled to form questions and others are not entitled to stop me from asking them. My hypothesis is the question is whether the wonder of the universe implies a Divine Agency. You are wrong to insist that this is aberrant thinking and you give no reason to defend your demand. I know that I and many others are tenacious in our faith; and for a unified group of atheists to roundly and rankly disparage us and shoulder us out of respectability is not morally defensible. I hope this helps. And you're still ducking 115.

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:08:00 UTC | #897624

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joecatholic's Avatar Jump to comment 162 by joecatholic

It was suggested that I moved on too fast: thus In answer to 88 (would I go for monuments to other faiths in public places:

How about the Star and Crescent-moderately unhappy; the Star of David-moderately happy; the Wheel of Dharma-moderately unhappy; the Pentacle-no; the Swastika-no; Sigil of Lucifer-no no; the Khanda or the Happy Human-can't say; simple Cross-happy; happy face-unhappy; ornate graphic Catholic crucifix-moderately not happy; an atheist symbol 'A'-overjoyed because then I could try to get it torn down;

But if something is there for decades, oh what the heck. I was unhappy when I believe it was Islamic Afghans blasted away at Buddhist mountain face sculptures a couple of years ago.

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:29:50 UTC | #897577

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joecatholic's Avatar Jump to comment 160 by joecatholic

The indoctrination which you suppose was a witnessing passed down from Luke one of the eyewitnesses and backed up by scripture. It was then self-appropriated responsibly on the basis of personal experiences. It wasn't a case of blind leading the blind at all. It was a case of people witnessing to what they found helpful in their lives. I cannot say why you think this is not sensible. It is radical to believe; my quest is to design a theology consistent with modern science; yours is to throw out theology. But think this is not the sensible approach.

you are all still ducking my comment 115. Answer please.

Incidentally I realize I am a guest here and I will ease up. Thanks for the repartee.

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:57:56 UTC | #897569

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joecatholic's Avatar Jump to comment 155 by joecatholic

"From my perspective, God existed before the earth, before the Big Swish, before everything." you answer:

"That doesn't work. If God existed before everything, then mind could exist before everything. "

Here you miss the point of the previous exchange. I just want to say that it is not a simple matter to say the 'burden of proof' is on the believer' simply because the believing was just as spontaneous and then considered as anything you have done with your mind and preceded the criticism you levy on the believer.

You hold that believing in God is an aberration. From my perspective, the perspective that preceded yours (in my view) yours is a position of downright insolence (I do not take offense personally although I am shocked by a danger) and I hold that any self respecting believer should and may say, prove it.

Calling belief in religion an aberrant suspension of judgement is the result of an oversimplification for which you feel you need not supply a reason. I feel that you must. Why is it an aberration to look through all the myths and believe that the one that says Jesus saves mankind from sin is true while the one that says Zeus throws firebrands is false? Why?

I do not believe that Mickey Mouse is real but I believe that Popeye is. But I do believe that any of the characters of Dickens or Trollope have a measure of reality in that they have a useful cultural place. The moreso Jesus Christ. He's Really Real God Bless Him

I believe in the ancient view (call it a myth if you please) 'you gotta change your way of living before the Good Lord say that's all'. I believe it and I think I had better think twice before I suspend by belief in that. And you can't stop me and the burden of proof would be on you to get me to change my belief.

You've all ducked by comment 115 answer please

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Sat, 10 Dec 2011 14:51:18 UTC | #897521

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joecatholic's Avatar Jump to comment 147 by joecatholic

The supernatural is not unnatural. The supernatural becomes the natural in the Holy Eucharist each and every morning at Mass. I reason thus: nothing is known to the mind that is not first known to the sense. The concept of God is known to my mind. Thus it must have come through my senses. So the supernatural must have been in the natural for that to have happened. Show me why I can't think that. Show me why I can't hold the hypothesis that the wondrous stars are the Divine Workmanship. Who says I can't hold an hypothesis that came into my mind as I studied the heavens. And it must have come into a human mind at some time before religion. So how did that happen. If you say I must abandon that hypothesis. That I suffer from an aberration I think the burden of proof is on you as any self-respecting person might.

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:22:48 UTC | #897472

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