This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

flamenco's Profile

flamenco's Avatar Joined about 5 years ago
Gender: Male

Latest Discussions Started by flamenco

More Discussions by flamenco

Latest Comments by flamenco

Go to: Cleric says polio vaccination 'un-islamic', warns of jihad against docs

flamenco's Avatar Jump to comment 11 by flamenco

Religion. Poisons. Everything.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:00:17 UTC | #947368

Go to: [Updated 15th Jan]- Atheists have no right... - Atheists face Muslim-led censorship from UCL Union

flamenco's Avatar Jump to comment 335 by flamenco

Comment 332 by ijonesp

Flamenco admitted that society was "probably" affected by the bible.

No he didn't. I am Flamenco and I have said nothing of the sort. How dare you.

You have been asked to back up your ideas with evidence, reasoning and honesty.

Give an example of morality derived from the bible which you have which you could not have arrived at by yourself. I didn't think you could.

I still don't think you can.

Believe whatever you wish but don't pretend I and others here have said things they have not. That is not moral.

You made a lazy swipe at the God Delusion and at god Is Not Great. Your misunderstanding was pointed out and you were invited to think again or back up your view with a better argument.

You have failed.

Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:41:37 UTC | #908690

Go to: [Updated 15th Jan]- Atheists have no right... - Atheists face Muslim-led censorship from UCL Union

flamenco's Avatar Jump to comment 324 by flamenco

Comment 323 by ijonesp

We have our modern morality and attitutes IN PART because of Christian morality. I stress "in part" because I recognize there are other influences. But "in part" is good enough to me to demonstrate that the statement I quoted from Richard Dawkins was not based in reality i.e.

"..we do not - even the religious among us - ground our morality in holy books, no matter what we may fondly imagine."

Ok. Give an example of a moral idea that you have which you derived ONLY from your holy book and which you would not and could not have come up with by yourself.

See what I mean. You ain't got one.

And if I ask are there ANY ideas in the bible you KNOW to be amoral... you could provide a substantial list.

Morals are NOT derived from the bible or any of the many other 'holy books'.

Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:34:57 UTC | #908654

Go to: [Updated 15th Jan]- Atheists have no right... - Atheists face Muslim-led censorship from UCL Union

flamenco's Avatar Jump to comment 322 by flamenco

Comment 319 by ijonesp

So most of the literate people within our society read the bible regularly for hundreds of years and you are saying they didn't find any ideas whatever about morality which they hadn't already worked out for themselves?

You don't get it. They (and you) have already rejected all the stuff which deserves rejecting, so what they have left is nothing they couldn't have worked out - as people for soooo long had already done so.

There was absolutley no influence of any idea which would which was not "natural morality"?

None.

On a cultural level what you are saying is simply impossible. And how do you explain the fact that other cultures not influenced historically by Christianity (e.g. the far east or India) have different morality and attitudes to ours in the west?

You'd have to explain what "different morality" and "attitudes" you think demonstrate such peoples and cultures are lacking something which the one holy book (among sooooo many) you have decided is The Right One has given you and your fellow believers.

Because so far I ain't seen nothing. And you haven't made your case.

Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:47:10 UTC | #908648

Go to: [Updated 15th Jan]- Atheists have no right... - Atheists face Muslim-led censorship from UCL Union

flamenco's Avatar Jump to comment 317 by flamenco

@Comment 316 by ijonesp

It is simply not possible for so many people to read a book for hundreds of years without it affecting the "zeitgeist" as Richard Dawkins put it. I am happy to conced that some ideas come back from secular thought and influence Christianity. But there simply MUST be traffic in the opposite direction. I really don't see how anyone could deny it.

But the point is that people HAVEN'T accepted the "morality" of the bible. They have actually rejected so much of it. (As you have - because for example - you don't think people who work on the sabbath should be executed.)

The "morality" which people accept now is pretty much the same as the morality they already had. Do unto others etc is NOT a christian idea (it predates the bible by a long time and in many different places independently.)

So - lots of people reading a book has not made much of a difference, thankfully.

Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:44:14 UTC | #908623

More Comments by flamenco