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Enders's Avatar Joined almost 5 years ago
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Go to: BBC rewrites history of science

Enders's Avatar Jump to comment 43 by Enders

Wouldn't it be funny if the reporter just read a translation of the accusation and that mistake was actually in the Vatican letter?I think that would be hilariously.

Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:36:08 UTC | #926418

Go to: Canadian imams issue fatwa against honor killings

Enders's Avatar Jump to comment 123 by Enders

Comment 122 by Ignorant Amos :

"Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf (Arabic: كعب بن الاشرف‎) (died 624) was a chief of the Jewish tribe of Banu Nadir and a poet, who plotted with Quraysh and a group of Jews to fight against Muslims and assassinate the Islamic prophet Muhammad. He was assassinated by Muslims on the order of Muhammad before he could carry out his plans. Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf was born to a Jewish-Arab mother from the Banu Nadir tribe and a Arab father, and he followed his mother's religion."

First time I heard or read of him trying to assassinate Mohammed was in the wikipedia article. The hadiths just starts with Mohammed asking who will kill this man for me. I don't know if the reason for it is mentioned elsewhere in the hadiths.

Another version of that hadith is in Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369.

The German wikipedia entry for Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf also mentions the murder of Abu 'Afak and Asma bint Marwan. But the chain of transmission for those stories is considered weak, which still doesn't mean it didn't actually happen.

I just found a list of murdered people:

He is alleged to have penned derogatory poems that qualified as blasphemy.

"A number of reasons are given for the assassination. One reason is that al-Ashraf had tried to provoke the Quraysh against Muhammad, and later composed verses insulting Muslim women. Another reason is his attempt to assassinate Muhammad. According to Norman Stillman, Muhammad was acting in accordance with the norms of the Arab society of that period which demanded retaliation for a slight to a group's honor."

I guess taking his mothers religion and running with the wrong crowd would've been enough on it's own.

I suppose any of the reasons could be considered honour killings as those that did the killing were doing it for the honour of the prophet. Some might say self defence in respect of the foremost reason I present here.

I tried to read the Uri Rubin source, but I am not going to pay 34 Dollars to read the entire article (" "). But on the one page it points to another source: Kister "Markets", 181. But all I could find was:

Doesn't "Self defence" need a direct and current thread to your life? I am sure I could not claim self-defense if I hired an assassin to murder someone who threatened me.

I just realized even if Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf was trying to assassinate the prophet, the reason I mentioned him was to show that Mohammed had allowed to lie in order to murder someone. So the three reasons given in your post are at the very least incomplete or if you want to be harsher they are a lie.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:39:15 UTC | #916792

Go to: Canadian imams issue fatwa against honor killings

Enders's Avatar Jump to comment 121 by Enders

Comment 109 by Ignorant Amos :

Provisions for lying in Islam

Most Muslims are familiar with the principles of Islam that will justify lying in situations where they sense the need to do so. Among these are:

War is deception.

The necessities justify the forbidden.

If faced by two evils, choose the lesser of the two.

These principles are derived from passages found in the Quran and the Hadith.


Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf was murdered because he insulted Muslims, that is an honour murder right? The command for the murder came directly from Mohammed and the murderers lied in order to be able to murder him. Source: Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 45, Number 687

Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:26:32 UTC | #916671

Go to: Canadian imams issue fatwa against honor killings

Enders's Avatar Jump to comment 106 by Enders

Comment 98 by mmurray : ....These crimes are major sins in Islam punishable by the court of law and almighty Allah.

“They (wives) are your garments. And ye are their garments." (2:187)

Great, but "court of law" includes "court of sharia law" like it is done in the UK. If they said something like: "court which applies the laws of the country you live in" THEN it would be a good thing, but right now it is just a wischi-waschi formulation.

Now for the second part: ONE LINE out of how many thousands? Why do you assume that the quoted line is even valid today? You do know that in the quran later verses overwrite earlier verses and that Mohammed changed quite substantially after the Battle of Badr? What makes you so sure they didn't lie by omission?

Why is there a hadith comparing women to donkeys and dogs? Or another one where Mohammed claims that women have a lack of intelligence and faith? Why do the canadian imams ignore those even though those hadith are considered to be canonical and true? Because they cherry pick.

That fatwa is a nice start, but it is probably in contradiction with the Islamic faith. And unless the moderate believers of all religion finally realize that being a "moderate" believer is actually equal to NOT being believer I am not satisfied and I am not happy, no matter how nice the words sound. I DO NOT know any religion which states you can pick and choose which parts of it you ignore and which you believe in.

I agree with A.C. Grayling here:

Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:10:46 UTC | #916218

Go to: Cardinal Edward Egan Just Withdrew His Apology for the Catholic Sex-Abuse Scandal

Enders's Avatar Jump to comment 47 by Enders

He also claimed that the Church had no obligation to report abuse to the civil authorities.

He probably confused it with Germany where even today there is no obligation to report abuse afaik.

Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:01:18 UTC | #916180

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