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Comments by Roger Stanyard

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 196 by Roger Stanyard

BryanFisher - when we first saw Fundies Say the Darndest Things we thought that many if not most of the postings were jokes filed by non-creationists to make the cretinists sound stupid. We've long learned otherrwise. It's full of stuning Poes. Tens of thousands of them!

Worse still, the vast majority of creationist statements are so dim, repetitive or inane that they don't even warrent getting on FSTDT.

Of course it's always a good idea for RDF forum participators to post some of the creationist quotes that appear here. The fundies will hate you for it, I'm pleased to say. ;-)

Mon, 03 May 2010 16:13:00 UTC | #465344

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 194 by Roger Stanyard

Billysands - it's worse than that. It's fairly common for creationists to set up their own blog or enter a forum such as this and the reply to their own posts under different names. One of the most notorious a few years back went under the name Flubber (amongst others). He even tried to claim he as a 1960s Cold War spy for the CIA (he's only 22 now). Another is John A.Davidson, otherwise known as JAD. He's all over the place on the net at present and clearly has a severe mental problem (so does Flubber). JAD is so mad even the creationists ban him from their forums!

But then, anyone who looks at Fundies Say the Darndest tHings web site soon gets the message that the typical creationist is an arrogant, pigshit ingnorant halfwit who thinks he (sometimes she) knows everything.

Mon, 03 May 2010 13:52:00 UTC | #465298

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 191 by Roger Stanyard

DeepFritz claims

Evolution also occurs in engineering and the arts. A design can evolve over time to become more efficient, also replicating the natural world at times has it's benefits in terms of solving an engineering problem.

Utter rubbish.

Mon, 03 May 2010 08:32:00 UTC | #465216

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 190 by Roger Stanyard

Epeeist - LSwanson's statement about his qualifications is just an aargument from authoriy. When it comes to substantiated his position, he ran away, claiming that he didn't have time to answer. This is bog standard and highly predictable performance of creationists in online debates. I've just seen Paul Garner, head of the Biblical Creation Society duck and run in the same way.

Heck I'm a Bachelor of Science - that dosn't make me an authority on the key "creationist" issues of geology and evolutionary biology. The BSc is in economics.

The creationists are also notorious for lying about their qualifications and that habit starts at the very top of the creationist movement. None of the following leading creationists appear to have ever been near a university - Dr Kent Hovind, Dr Carl Baugh, Dr John Blamchard, Dr Ian Paisley.....

Diploma mill and Bible studies school "degree" qualfications are rampant amongst creationist/fundamentalist pastors. The European Theological Seminary in Northern Ireland has turned out some 300 such "graduates".

Mon, 03 May 2010 08:27:00 UTC | #465214

Go to: The Video That Ended a Career

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 27 by Roger Stanyard

FilthyWitness asks

I hope this is on-topic. I think it is.
Given the history of the pesent-day Bible (that it is a specific collection of old gospels and stories picked to establish a particular theology - correct me if I'm wrong!), is there a Christian sect that has recently gone back through all the available documents, picking different stories using more 'modern' criteria (in the light of current scientific knowledge), and created a new different bible£

Yes, unfortunately. The fundies are behind it so it's exceedingly selective and about as bigoted as you can imagine.

Conservapedia is re-writing the Bible for US fundies - taking out all the "liberal bias" and replacing it with American wingnut doctrine. Conservapedia, though, is also re-writing the whole of human knowledge and experience to get rid of any "liberal bias". Not surprisingly there are a pile f choice quotes from Conservapedia on Fundies Say the Darndest Things.

There;s big money behind it all as well. Conservapedia is headed up by bAndy Schlafly (otherwise an obscure non-entity). Mummy (Phylis Schlafly - a millionairess wingnut who made her money through marriage) is the prime source of dosh.

Does anyone here get te feeling that the USA has lost the plot£

Mon, 03 May 2010 07:18:00 UTC | #465200

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 185 by Roger Stanyard

Epeeist - I checked out the report about the Tory donors. It's outside of our remit. BCSE is a single issue organisation and we would only have a handle on what was going on here if the backers were creationists.

Still, it's a bit woorying that whilst religious belief is declining in the UK, the Tories appear to be getting close to religion. Seems to me that as religious belief declines, then religion increasingly falls under the control of extremists, especially where American "help" is available.

The Zeitgeist has changed in the last few years to the severe detriment of the Religious Right in the USA. It's party because of what Richard and others have done but mostly, I guess, because the fundamentalists always overreach themselves. They are full of bile and hate at the moment because they have been politically marginalised as the voters got fed up with the Republican Party but, I suspect, their long-term influence is on the wane.

Sun, 02 May 2010 14:21:00 UTC | #464957

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 184 by Roger Stanyard

Epeeist - We don't know anything about Philipa Stroud but she certainly wories me. We keep coming across New Frontiers churches in our research. Many if not all of them look to be creationist but creationism seems to be a fairly peripheral issue on their agendas.

From memory, the New Frontiers movement in the UK has received considerable financial help from the USA as well as management expertise such as training courses for its pastors. The New Frontiers churches look to be run like businesses (we've got one here in Winchester) and, IIRC, tithes are levied on members.

My memory my be failing me but, IIRC, the New Frontiers movement is operated out of Southampton.

What worries me is its members getting into politics. The Religious Right is basically wrecking the USA and there is no doubt that a lot of fundamentalists in Britain envy their political clout. The creationist movement in the UK has, in its activism, partly gone underground because of publicity given to it by the likes of the BCSE so we don't exactly know what it is doing, politically-wise.

Sun, 02 May 2010 12:43:00 UTC | #464931

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 180 by Roger Stanyard

Let's spell it out to LSwanson. We at the BCSE do know what creationists believe. We've spent years researching it and have a pile of well qualified members in science, theology and other subjects to get a grasp on it.

High amongst the Britsh creationist movement is Pastor David Anderson (described by Richard as a "twerp".

He has openly stated that Theology is the the 'queen of the sciences' which should be allowed to "to dictate the acceptable boundaries for other pursuits" - biology amongst them.

Other choice quotes from this foaming at the mouth bigot include " "Man is commanded to explore, harness and glorify God in every aspect of creation - physical, spiritual, intellectual etc".

And the legendary "Christian value number one is that Jesus Christ is Lord. Lord of all. Lord of our innermost thoughts; but also Lord of politics, Lord of taxation, Lord of government borrowing, Lord of social and family policy. Lord of all..."

So, LSwanson, rather than lie, patronise and preech in this forum, why don't you just answer my question rather than avoid it.

Otherwise, bugger off ond shove you "creation science" books up you're arse (where you're mouth is).

Sun, 02 May 2010 10:16:00 UTC | #464898

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 179 by Roger Stanyard

LSwanson - you're a lying bastard.

Let me ask you, yet again: "What is the scientific theory of creationism and how can it be tested with the scientific method."

It'll only take you a paragraph or so to reply.

Sun, 02 May 2010 09:47:00 UTC | #464893

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 160 by Roger Stanyard

stephenray says

Behemoth was a sauropod£

I have to hand it to these people. Their creativity is absolutely astonishing.

"Creation science" is full of idiotic crap like this. Answers in Genesis/Creation Ministries International have been claiming for years that dinosaurs roamed North West England in the 15th century (I'm not joking, they are that stupid).

The classic claim is that the Lochness Monster is proof that dinosaurs exist today. The flick up a picture of a plesiosaur to prove the point.

Alas plesiosaurs were not dinosaurs.

Even the dragon on the Welsh flag has been used as proof of creationism.

I've heard creationists repeatedly claim that because men are inclined to find white women in red high heeled shoes attractive proves creationism.

I've even come across one who convinced a young man to kill himself and then brag about what he'd done to the lad's mother.

See Fundies Say the Darndest Things to see just how bigoted and stupid the kook clowns really are.

Yet the creationists whinge we we don't treat them with "respect".

Sat, 01 May 2010 11:13:00 UTC | #464516

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 153 by Roger Stanyard

Just another quick reminder to everyone here. There are also some pretty vile attacks on Christians on Answers in Genesis's web site. And no apology to Margaret Buchanan either.

Sat, 01 May 2010 09:35:00 UTC | #464499

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 152 by Roger Stanyard

Epeeist - thanks for drawing my attention to your comments. Yep, the term "wordlview" does appear to be a fundies' effort at postmodernism. It's got no substance whatsoever. The older term which it really means is ideology. Most people are not ideologues. We have very individualistic understandings of the world which reflect our differing experiences and knowledge and the debates, contradictions, uncertainties, knowledge, culture, society and times we live in.

As I have long said, the fundies like LSwanson are ideologues, basically no different from Maoists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, Fascists or whatever. They are all underneath birds of a feather schreeching to the same tune. You only have to look at the Religious Right in the USA to get the message.

In all the years I've been handling fundies in "debate" I've never ever heard one of them say "I don't know".

Nor has one ever addressed the question I put to LSwanson.

LSwanson is clearly also a fundie "side stepper" well practised in the fundie shuffle.

Sat, 01 May 2010 09:28:00 UTC | #464496

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 151 by Roger Stanyard

LSwanson - Ken Scam not lying£ He never stops lying. Like you. The issue is not between religion and science. It's between Biblical literalists and the rest of the world and the majority of Christians do not accept Biblical literalism.

Strange isn't it that for years the fundies wouldn't accept "fllod geology" because it originated with Seventh Day Adventists who were not "proper" Christians.

If, as you say, creationism reflects a Christian "worldview" why is it, time and time again, the creationist claim that their "science" is justified soley by science£ After all they have told the courts this time and time again. Why were they lying under oath£ Why did the lose every single court case£

Remember, you've just told us all here that creationism is a religious position.

Sat, 01 May 2010 08:54:00 UTC | #464494

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 149 by Roger Stanyard

LSwanson - stop bullshiting and waffling about worldviews and cosmology and answer my question. It you and Ken Scam have an alternative explanation of the differences between species, where is it£

What is te scientific theory of creationism and how can it be tested with the scientific method£

Sat, 01 May 2010 08:23:00 UTC | #464491

Go to: Conservatives Say 'Don't Ask' Repeal Would Hurt Military Chaplains

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 62 by Roger Stanyard

Tough sh*t that gay rights "hurt" the US military chaplaincy. The military doesn't exist for the benefit of conservative evangelical chaplains. It exists for the benefit of all US citizens (including gays). Quite frankly if they don't like gays benefiting from it (and helping pay their salaries), they should find work elsewhere. They are public servants and answerable, at the end of the day, to the public at large, not their religious sect, denomination or beliefs.

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:08:00 UTC | #464352

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 101 by Roger Stanyard

LOL! One of the creationist books held up by Kentucky Kook Ken is Refuring Evolution by Jonathan Sarfati - one and the same person discussed recently in this forum.

Just a quick reminder. Sarfati works for Creation Ministries International who hate Ken Scam and Answers in Genesis because they ripped off CMI's income from dodgy publications. Then there was all that nasty business about necrophilia amongst creationists.....

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:03:00 UTC | #464350

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 97 by Roger Stanyard

Kentucky Kook Ken is, of course, an ex-teacher by profession.

Alas none of the children in this video are in any position to question what he is saying. He's basically exploiting the weak and vunerable, a clear measure of a first class bully. If Ken Scam and his pals had any balls whatsoever, they would submit their "creation science" work for peer review. Instead they run away and try and pass it off on children as real "science".

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:53:00 UTC | #464344

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 96 by Roger Stanyard

Just one point about LSawnson that everyone appears to have missed. He seems to be claiming that there are only 2 worldviews - that of creationism believing Christians and atheists. It's an old fundie trick of rhetoric along with the fundie side step.

The other fundie game he is playing is trying to equate lack of belief in (his) reliigion with despotism and totalitarianism. There's no such link I'm pleased to say. However, the belief is rsmpant amongst American fundies.

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:48:00 UTC | #464343

Go to: Creationism propaganda for children caught on camera

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 93 by Roger Stanyard


Yes, get government involved even more in the private lives of citizens - wouldn't that be grand? Let's hand over all our freedom because we certainly need them to prescribe what and what not to believe and what/what not to teach our children. Of course, we would want due punishment for those who do not fall into line, right? Do you understand the consequences of your suggestions when taken to their full measure? You are calling for despotism.

yep, you're dead right. Everybody has the fredonm to tell what they feel fit about religion to their children. They do not, however, have the right to proselytise to other people's children. The key issue is about teaching creationism in state schools. That's illegal in the USA and the UK.

There are also serious moral issues about the likes of Ken Ham and other creationists telling children that the world is only 6,000 years old, evolution never happened and Noah's Ark actually existed (or exists according to the latest crapola from creationists).

If you go about lying to children, you have something to answer for. It's not a matter of "opinion" that you believe creationism to be valid. If you have a valid position, then say so and tell us what the scientific theory of creationism is and how it can be tested by the scientific method. If you can't your opinion is bogus and you're a fraud and phoney.

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:41:00 UTC | #464338

Go to: Sometimes, it really is hard to tell faith from a mental illness

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 57 by Roger Stanyard

Yet another fine advertisement for Texas and Texans. Eyes roll.

Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:52:00 UTC | #463621

Go to: Will Christians swing the 2010 UK election?

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 36 by Roger Stanyard

The BNP is milking religion for all its worth. It has its own "christian organisation, the Christian Coalition of Great Britain, headed up by an ordained minister who, IIRC, is standing for election.

The DUP was for years the political wing of Paisely's Free Presbyterian Church and will use a hung Parliament to leverage its position for all its worth.

There are also a couple of loons standing for electon as heads of Christain parties. One of them is standing in Barking.

UKIP has also had its religious loons, notably the Young Earth Creationist Tony Bennett who later defected to Veritas. He was sacked by both.

Bennett is probably better know as the guy that wrote the book trying to claim there was a coverup over the death of a young man in Michael Barrymore's swiming pool. Bennett was disowned by his parents after the book was published.

It's also worth keeping an eye on Stephen Green , the head of Christian Voice and who wants rape legalised. He's an ex-Tory activist.

Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:41:00 UTC | #461711

Go to: Evangelist Spurned for Supporting Evolution

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 58 by Roger Stanyard

LSwanson - oh, I see. Death was invented by God because of Adam and therefore the whole of geology is wrong/

Big problem with that as Adam would have exploded within a day or so of being "created".

Perhaps he was also blind as Eve's external appearance was nothing but death itself. What, with her entire skin surface being nothing more that dead cells...

There are times when creationists display such utter stupidity it is difficult to know what to say.

Want to really piss the fundies off£ Point out to them that the Genesis account
does NOT even say that God created life---it says God "caused the earth to bring
forth life". In ancient times, the word used for anything that was buried in
the ground was "fossil". The Genesis account, therefore, says that life comes
from those things we find in the ground. From fossils. From evolution.

Hearing that usually gets their blood pressure nice and spiked. :)

Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:21:00 UTC | #461447

Go to: Court splits sharply on campus Christian argument

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 22 by Roger Stanyard

Aiser says

This is not bigotry. You shouldn't have to admit certain groups of people into you're organization if you do not want to. People often like to stick to their own kind. Why should every org just let everyone and anyone in....

Why? This is about the right of everyone to participate in the society they belong to. Taxpayers' money is involved and gays, like everyone else, all pay taxes.

This is an organisation open to Christians but bans gay Christians.

Who else does this Christian organisation ban? Other Christians who hold unacceptable views about religion?

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:14:00 UTC | #461250

Go to: Young and atheist

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 13 by Roger Stanyard

nairbe claims

I doubt secularism will ever take hold around the world. To let go of religion requires education, most countries around the world discourage their populations from becoming educated and the rest try to control what and how subjects are taught.

Bullshit. Governments worldwide spend staggering sums of money on educating their citizens.

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 09:48:00 UTC | #461247

Go to: Evangelist Spurned for Supporting Evolution

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 55 by Roger Stanyard

LSwanson says

Not saying that at all. I believe everybody (excepting those suffering from clinical sociopathy) has the ability to distinguish right from wrong. I'm saying that in the evolutionary model, there is no empirical truth about "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad", and certainly, the concept of sin is entirely incompatible with evolution.

If you study the history of science and the creation vs evolution debate you will find that over time, the church compromised on the issue of biblical authority and on the issue of a 6-day creation as recorded in Genesis WITHOUT giving consideration to what this means for the rest of the Bible, specifically, the death of Jesus for the atonement of sin. So, generally, it's not an issue of belief/understanding of sin & redemption that is the problem for Christians who also accept the evolution model, but an understanding of the inconsistency of sin/redemption with evolution.

But the creations have been telling the courts that evolution is compatible with sin. See what Michael behe told the Judge in the Dover trial.

There is no debate between creation and evolution. The creationists have never produced one iota of science from their creationist believs.

Moreover, the "Church" has not compromised over time on the issue of "Biblical authority" by which you clearly mean a literal interpretation of the Bible. As I have pointed out to you, it is not the position of the RCC and never has been. It's an invention of American fundamentalists in the late 19th Century and early 20th century looking backards to the Sola Scriptura invention of Martin Luther.

It's a figment of your fundamentalist imagination that there is an inconsistency between Christianity and evolution (or, as you put it, sin - right and wrong - and evolution. Its about as daft as saying that engineering is not consistent with sin.

Worse till, the entire issue is not one between "science" v "religion". Chrstianity does not represent religious believers. What the real issue is the political battle between conservative fundamentalists and the modern world with the fundamentalists wanting a theocracy, with them in charge.

In the evolution model, the concepts of sin & redemption are nonsense.
Jesus came to give redemption from sin (the message of the gospel).
Therefore, in the evolution model, the message of the gospel is nonsense.

No it isn't. It is only biblical literalists who claim so. ANd that, as I say, is based on a 16th century invention. The vast majority of Christians do not accept Biblical literalism and you're being dogmatic and disingeneous in suggesting otherwise. You clearly do not speak for Christianity. You rhetoric is exceedingly transparent and flakey.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:48:00 UTC | #461044

Go to: Evangelist Spurned for Supporting Evolution

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 47 by Roger Stanyard

lswanson claims

... in the evolution model, there is no sin - we simply do what we do, right£ Yes, we perceive "good" and "bad", but there is no sin, and therefore no need for atonement - which makes the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus a nonsense.

So£ Are you saying that nobody except creationists have any idea of the difference between right and wrong£ Or are you trying to say that sin has nothing to do with right or wrong£

Do Catholics understand and accept sin£

Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:06:00 UTC | #460697

Go to: Evangelist Spurned for Supporting Evolution

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 40 by Roger Stanyard

Rosie83 says

Many of you have asked how one could be or stated that it is impossible to be a bible believing Christian and accept evolutionary theory at the same time. If you sincerely want to know how how at least one Christian reconciles the two beliefs, then I recommend the book Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller.

That's just wrong. The term "Bible believing" normally refers to Christians who interpret the Bible literally on the basis of Sola Scriptuta - hence creationists who somehow convince themselves that Genesis is actually an historical account and the Noah's Ark story as completly "true". Such Bible believers are usually Calvinistic and exclusively Protestant.

By a massive margin Miller is not a "Bible Believer". He's a Roman Catholic and the RCC does not accept Sola Scriptura. Heck, Sola Scriptura was invented by Luther to undermine the RCC.

The only creationist RCC in the Anglo American world I am aware of is Michael Behe and he accepts evolution and the old age of the earth.

Get your terminology right before attacking Miller. When it comes to creationism, he's onside.

Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:55:00 UTC | #460570

Go to: Professor Antony Flew

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 45 by Roger Stanyard

InfiniteComplexity claims

Professor Flew was the world's leading atheist and changed his mind only because of the EVIDENCE.

Evidence of what£

Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:26:00 UTC | #460444

Go to: Evangelist Spurned for Supporting Evolution

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 23 by Roger Stanyard

lswanson says

Referring to the comments posted here and on the ABC website where the article was originally posted, why does a non-Christian have an opinion on what a Christian should believe regarding evolution£ Or what the "statement of belief" requirements of a Christian seminary are for its professors£ Why defensive of this Christian who possibly accepts evolution£ Why is a story like this even newsworthy£

Rosie83, if you research properly, you will understand why evolution is incompatible with the gospel...

Been researched and nowhere does the Bible say this. Your claim is by assertion.

Biblical literalism is nothing more than a derivative of Sola Scriptura, a Protestant 16th century political invention. If the Bible can be interpreted literally, there would not be 29,000 different Protestant sects and cults all with different interpretations. Instead there would be just the one.

Moreover, it may have entered your tiny little mind that Christianity pre-dates the 16th Century and most Christians simply do not accept that the Bible can be interpreted literally.

There are very good reasons why Christians and non-Christians should be interested in what has happened to this professor. The Bible believing literalists are highly politicised and want to get their "creation science" and other dogmatic views into public sector education. (See Texas State Board of Education.) We all pay for and use public education. When the religious right is calling for a theocracy, with them in charge, if affects everybody.

This man is a professor in a degree awarding institution (and accredited). It seems in the fundie world that such academics should have neither security of tenure or the right to express their own views (the two go hand in hand). That is very good reason to either strip the institution of its ability to award degrees or for the rest of the world to rightly conclude its degrees are bogus.

Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:28:00 UTC | #460435

Go to: Rally on the Steps of the Texas Capitol

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Jump to comment 22 by Roger Stanyard

by angkorman asks

Is there also a parallel campaign to lobby the state government? I only ask this because I fear the Board, having already displayed their ignorance, might just ignore the protest and plough ahead with the curriculum changes.

Yes. It's run by a first class organisation called the Texas Freedom Network. Well worth a visit to its web site.

Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:00:00 UTC | #459702