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Comments by strangebrew

Go to: Belief In God Plummets Among Youth (CHART)

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 42 by strangebrew

I wonder how long it will take the jeebus droolers to come to the conclusion that they will have to ban teh 'inta'tubes to survive.

Imagine Benny baby passing a kidney stone of an edict that 'surfin' da tubes' is a sin enough to get ya sorry ass excommunicated and that definitely means ya ass is grass!

I know some fundamentalist Jews already ban computers and radios...let alone TV's...and the Amish are famous for their insularity from the world.

But xianiity is between a rock and a hard place here...they hateses the internet...but they need it badly to disseminate their effluence...let alone warn us all about the next rapture date!

So methinks that overall...they is screwed right royally!...oh dear how sad never mind!

Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:01:28 UTC | #947772

Go to: Belief In God Plummets Among Youth (CHART)

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 30 by strangebrew

Comment 29 by scottishgeologist

The article is worth reading ro get a feel for what evangies are up to.

Yeah indeed, this will not be a rare occurrence elsewhere either.

With the C of E disintegrating like a pack of cards....why does 'Catwaezle really want out?...it will be impossible to keep them selves intact after several years of bitter in fighting. Most battles orchestrated by evangelical fervour.

The evangelicals are stirring the pot...they want the reins...always have...these feckers really want a theocracy none of this namby pamby secular state with religion for them...it is a straight dash for the crown and glory...they want national control...simples!

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:42:17 UTC | #947459

Go to: Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 8 by strangebrew

The man deserves great respect...I wish him all the best!

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:26:54 UTC | #947455

Go to: Belief In God Plummets Among Youth (CHART)

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 17 by strangebrew

Comment 14 by Sample

Living in a country with such a high overall rate of religious participation, it might seem that religious liberty for all would be guaranteed and protected. Unfortunately, that is not the case. (Bishop Edward Burns)

They will only be mollified when the numbers state 100% and then some!

What he actually means by religious liberty is that his church are not getting the liberty to discriminate...suppress and practice intolerance...(as if they needed to practice) They are very sad little penguins cos they don't get to burn anyone any-more and they cannot preach hate as easily as they once could...sad penguins...cannot play at kiddie fiddling without someone being beastly to them in the media or on the World Wide Web...and they are not happy cos the government do not play the same games they do...they want to bully and they cannot...alas!

And people are beginning to laugh at them...openly!

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:57:31 UTC | #947383

Go to: The Dawkins Challenge

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 35 by strangebrew

Comment 30 by JackR

they seem smart enough to write articulately

Not convinced that articulation is high on their list to be honest...more like bullshitting a naive and awe stricken congregation that think there is a point in the word salad and that point is what the church is all about...even though the bedazzled have not a real clue about what the word salad actually means. The more the delivery is convoluted and stinks of 'fistikated feelology' the better, it does not have to be coherent or articulate...just sound like it is to the nominally brain dead!

but not smart enough to be embarrassed about the utter guff they write.

How can they be embarrassed they are delivering a message from jeebus? (Actually they are delivering a 'stall 'em and baffle 'em with bollix' edict from the Vatican) but that is the mystery of 'gawd!.

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:35:24 UTC | #947361

Go to: Belief In God Plummets Among Youth (CHART)

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 11 by strangebrew

They are trying to soften the reality. Everyone knows that religiosity is on a downward spiral globally...well certainly in the Western world that tends to export their delusional bollix to anyone else that will listen...

The question was deliberately couched to be ambiguous and convoluted to instil a moment of confusion...it is a crock of shite and they still did not get the answer they wanted cos the drop is so marked they cannot 'error bar' it away...but there is only so much padding to the numbers they can do...best is displaying a drop being not so dramatic as it actually is.

“I never doubt the existence of God.”

That is redolent of preacher speak...when they harangue the victims in youth camps...." You must never doubt the existence of god"...etc etc.

Why not a simpler...

Do you believe in god ?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:22:30 UTC | #947336

Go to: Cleric says polio vaccination 'un-islamic', warns of jihad against docs

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 7 by strangebrew

That stench of pompous irrationality...that is fear that is...fear that their scam is waning in popularity, fear that they have been sidelined by a global movement to understand the world as it really is..

It is the fear of being the only child left without a clue! It is the fear of a bully that finds his threats no longer make the victims pee themselves in awe and anxiety.

It is fear of their own ignorance!

It is just fear!

And it kills!

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:08:34 UTC | #947334

Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 51 by strangebrew

It is little wonder that the likes of Benny the babe hanker after the Bronze age.

How can a 'modern' church do its thing without 'traditional values'...like homophobic ranting & raving....whipping them wimmins' into the kitchen...burnin' the atheists and the heretics...demanding money with menaces from everyone else...losing the priestly privilege of kiddy fiddling whenever they had the urge and not getting fired or tried for it...having the community respect and fear them in unequal measure...amass vast fortunes by tithing the poor...over-abundance of poor = over-abundance of dosh...having heads of state lick their posteriors enthusiastically....blackmail...extortion...criminality...political gerrymandering...etc etc.etc...

The C of E are not quite so pedestrian, but not quite as experienced in inflicting utter misery like the competition, but they do a fine line in pompous morality even more breathtaking then their old sparring masters in some respects... but they have this ridiculous notion that every-time they get their ways blocked then it is because of the fact that they are victims of repression and are suffering abominable intolerance if not outright hatred by secular hedonists. Then they go into an all incoherently hysterical and all footsy stamping tantrum with quivering bottom lips then come the sensationalist hard done by claims, the recriminations ...then the hyperbola out right lies.

The Rt Rev Tim Stevens, bishop of Leicester, speaking on the same programme, conceded there were "some grounds" for saying the Church of England obsesses about sex.

"I rather sympathise with that statement but I don't think this is anything to do with obsessing about sex," he said.

No of course not...WTF?

"I think this is the church trying to uphold our traditional teachings and understanding about marriage and trying to avoid a sudden and rapid redefinition of marriage for everybody at a time when many marriages are in difficulties and where it is very unlikely that, within just a few weeks, a universally acceptable new definition of a fundamental social institution can emerge."

Sudden and rapid...err how long has Homosexuality been known about and the issues surrounding it? And who were the bunnies that fought tooth and nail to repress it for at least 2000 odd years? A clue it was not the secular society!

Now the lies flow...some small...some big...some just ridiculous...

"We have supported various legal changes in recent years to remove unjustified discrimination and create greater rights for same sex couples."

No they have not, that is plain when you peruse voting records in Hansards!

The actual debate appears to be in several parts dealing with different aspects...but you do get the flavour of the innate bigotry posing as tradition and concern...and typical howling wolf and recounts of horror stories and hypotheticals of a some what unlikely tenor!

And overall not a great deal of clerical support, rather grumpy and reticent in the main, and all lamenting the slippery slope and whining about the M word being weakened by some shadowy undefined consequence...but it is really bad and the end of civilization as we know it!

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:58:01 UTC | #947210

Go to: Why We Don't Believe in Science

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 60 by strangebrew

Which bit is gods word Nordic?

Cos the whole thing was only started about a century after some terrorist got nailed to a tree!

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:47:55 UTC | #947112

Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 32 by strangebrew

Ahh yes 'Catweazle'...

A kids series in the early 70's I think...

The hero was a Merlin like character whisked by time travel into the present day...well early 70's anyway.

The character was quite endearing...a bit like Rowan...but totally inept at his magiking...again a bit like Rowan!

The hair styles are identical b'twixt 'n' b'tween the two.

A quick taster

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:10:33 UTC | #947099

Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 30 by strangebrew

Comment 29 by Vorlund

Soon, very soon we'll be seeing the lights go out.

To be honest they started flickering intermittently a while back!

'Catweazle' is jumping ship before the darkness and panic really sets in...but he better get a wiggle on!

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:35:33 UTC | #947096

Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 21 by strangebrew

When you consider this whining tantrum...methinks the C of E might have over egged the hissy fit...cos if it does go through they will have to split with state...cos legally they have not a hope in hell of denying gay marriage in church....which according to a few web sites it looks to be a certainty!

The dumb muppets have stuck a whole Wellington boot in their gobs while simultaneously shooting themselves in the same foot..how fucking dumb can ya get!

They just committed operational suicide...next tax 'em...to the hilt...they will no longer be state sponsored!

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:26:52 UTC | #947083

Go to: Church accused of 'scaremongering'

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 18 by strangebrew

OP

The Church of England has said it could be forced to stop conducting weddings on behalf of the state if gay marriage is legalised.

OUT THROW WATER BABY THE BATH THE WITH

Arrange into a well known phrase so beloved of hysterically frothing religio-nuts when they cannot get their way and no one is paying them any attention!

The Rt Rev Tim Stevens, Bishop of Leicester

"We continue to be supportive of the gay community and want to see that inclusion in our society increased and developed," he said.

Short version

We thought we were throwing the dog a bone but it has now got completely out of hand.... We want to increase and develop provision for the 'teh ghey cure' ... a mission in every parish!

"I think the difficulty we have here is the substitution of equality for uniformity, that is to say that there can be no distinction at all between men and women."

Short version

How are we supposed to perform misogyny if no one can tell the difference between sexes.

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of Stonewall

The Church also warned that in spite of ministerial assurances that churches would not have to conduct gay marriages, it would be "very doubtful" whether limiting same-sex couples to non-religious ceremonies would withstand a challenge at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).

However...

A successful legal challenge brought at the ECHR could make it impossible for the Church of England to continue its role conducting marriages on behalf of the state, it said.

So they are screwed!

If they refuse to marry a gay couple...they will get royally spanked at the ECHR in front of the world for being bigoted homophobics...quite rightly to!

The Government’s plan to introduce same-sex marriage is one of the most serious threats to the Church of England in its 500-year history

I really hope so...I really do...because they are simply not up for the challenge...simples.

If this forces a state/religion split...then at least parliament will get rid of a gang of disreputable old farts without a valid clue between them.

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:56:02 UTC | #947076

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 230 by strangebrew

Comment 227 by Tyler Durden

Fr Gabriel Daly

“By the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood.

That is a definite claim and that claim of a meaning and a reality has been ratified by the Council of Trent in the 16th century. It has never changed. What is more ...

Roman Catholics believe in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.

But all of a sudden...

Real presence” is not synonymous with “transubstantiation”

Okay this 'real presence' ...so jeebus in corporeal form not standing in the wings or hanging loose by the alter cloth or flirting with the organist or whatever!

But the 'reality' is...

“This change(Eucharist) the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.”

So that is the ceremony of magikal jiggery pokery nailed...it is called the 'transubstantiation'

Consequently if we use the language of substance and accidents in treating of the Eucharist, we must follow the teaching of the Council of Trent, which simply states that the term “transubstantiation” was fittingly used by the church.

Quite so...

But err...2/3 of your victims do not believe it is as you say it is! They do not buy the scam and the lie!

That is the fucking point Gabriel!

Do I detect the church trying to distance itself from its own doctrine!

He seems to be whining about being trapped in their own doctrine...I can here a little mewling...'But its just tradition' slipping in here!

This 'ere 'fistikated feelology' ...well what can one say...'.ha! ha ! ha! ha! ha!...see how they run'...seems appropriate!

Like cockroaches scrabbling for the shadows!

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:41:11 UTC | #947015

Go to: My Journey

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 4 by strangebrew

Amen!

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:11:09 UTC | #947000

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 226 by strangebrew

Comment 223 by Ignorant Amos

Don't fret Amos...I understood the comment for what it was...I just claim that the devil made me do it...:-)

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:04:56 UTC | #946998

Go to: Church pastors become atheists

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 3 by strangebrew

OP

"I'm sure there are many pastors actively serving in churches who are going through a faith crisis and have lost their faith, but they haven't left because it's their livelihood," said Jenkins. "But they need to move on. They don't need to stay with a church and use their position as a pastor with sacred trust to try and take others with them."

That is their real fear...right there!

No mention of help or advice about how to move on you notice!

Just the selfish and egocentric issues of the church take precedence.

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:54:48 UTC | #946994

Go to: Major Threat to Religion? Clergy People Coming Out as Atheists

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 26 by strangebrew

Comment 25 by Roedy

Not many con men give up an easy life and turn straight.

Well to be pragmatic here, I would imagine that the more ambitious conmen gravitate to the fringe cults 4 jeebus.

The mainstreams are fairly tied together under the auspices of the main hierarchy and it would seem that a greater amount of lateral freedom of actions to perpetrate their little schemes is the environment the pig ignorant thrive. Certainly in Blighty.

There are a few blood sucker fleas on the mainland but they are usually small yapping and nominally one or two delusional spouting bile and insanity in equal measure from a basement computer terminal. Maybe a congregation of half a dozen and completely ignored. The brits regard them as more like a visible embodiment of eccentricity and tend to let them be the entertainment at Speakers corner for the tourists.

Last time I was there. about five years back, there were about three of them howling about the rapture and them 'omo's and a hell bound society. All was as usual with giggling and photo flashes from the Japanese tour group...until a group of Hawaiian shirted and nominally loud and gregarious American tourists actually knelt down on the grass to pray with the ranter who was exhorting everyone in ear shot to 'praise to jeebus and his kingdom of heaven' ...this caused a damn sight more hilarity in the crowd that were taking in the Sunday afternoon city sights, and there were far more photo and video clicks and whirs . The ranter himself was shocked this had never happened before obviously and he started stuttering and stumbling over a prayer he was making up on the spot and turning bright red. It was entertainment in the finest tradition, comedy gold! Thing is the Americans never twigged that it was not the way to behave at Speakers corner they seemed to get very confused if not agitated and were not at all sure which ranter to follow! As they say, like a dog with three dicks!

But that is not to say the mainstreams are not scam merchants, they are, always have been but they do it with the backing of the state or at least their whole clergy & congregation yomping along behind them.

America is a different battle zone, they have as many jeebus cults as there are pornographic web pages on the world wide web, maybe the deregulated playing field makes it much easier to live the American dream and much more cash flashing around.

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:43:41 UTC | #946993

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 222 by strangebrew

Comment 220 by Ignorant Amos

The space we are alluding to contains god....which you very well know is outside space and time....and takes the form of an immaterial mind.

No it doesn't Amos ...and no he isn't ...and no it can't...now pull yourself together and get sensible again...folks are watching and wondering! ;-)

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:36:21 UTC | #946937

Go to: Major Threat to Religion? Clergy People Coming Out as Atheists

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 16 by strangebrew

I would think the biggest threat to religion is religion itself! It seems to be badly tying itself up in Gordian Knots year on year.

Soon it will suffocate itself, that seems to be happening in the RC stable where 'believers' don't believe in some facets the dogma any-more. Not just the little foibles but the big ones the very big ones.

And as the church reacts to a changing attitude in the world...they try ever harder to hobble their herd in panicky fear only to drive more away and create more of a stench of desperation that no one can miss.

Religion will be religions undoing...simples!

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:44:07 UTC | #946903

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 206 by strangebrew

Comment 202 by Marcus Small

But here something that might offer you peace of mind. If one can say nothing about God, if God is beyond all predicates, then we are left to make our own minds up about is right and wrong. If we can know nothing of God’s will, then it follows that we cannot use God to justify our actions, be they good or bad. They rest on our own authority upon our individual autonomy and we have to take responsibility for them.

Well not so much peace of mind , more an affirmation in that is precisely how I live my life...and many here do likewise.

The problem is that this has never been accepted as a valid statement by religion and certainly never the xian brand.

And that is ample cause for friction and great antipathy.

They seem to prefer to harangue atheists and atheism as beyond the pale, Nazis, hedonists, irresponsible, and a slave to our desires....projection never so blatant I would say.

It is but passing odd that many xians, especially across the pond, maintain that they would probably be serial killers without jeebus whispering sweet FA's in their ear!

And that is not only frightening but is indicative of a very serious problem in the very fabric of their society, which is ostensibly xian!

So chicken and egg scenario here, does xianity in the USA pre-determine and prime the pump to insure a self fulfilling prophecy by such indoctrination as to force sheeple to believe and act in accordance with their scuttlebutt or is the danger so real that xianity is the only safe course.

I have my opinion...but what would be yours?

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:00:08 UTC | #946884

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 204 by strangebrew

Comment 197 by Marcus Small

That space is what the buddhists call Śūnyatā, emptiness, which is not dissimilar to Kenosis, self emptying.

Do you not appreciate the point that appealing to Eastern mysticism does not exactly put Western xianity on a stable platform? And it does not a lot for your case either!

Certainly seeing as Western xianity likes making the oft repeated boast of being the only true religion and all else worship the anti-christ....to paraphrase the committed!

Picking and choosing the best bits is the xian way granted, but out of the wholly babble and only from certain other religions they denigrate, absorb, just to eradicate...tis the xian way! To my knowledge they ain't quite raised the banner over Buddhism as yet!

The amount of pagan ritual that has found its way into western xian dogma is startling.

What is more if Buddhism had a point , how come you gyrate for a competitor in matters 'spiritual'?

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:36:26 UTC | #946881

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 198 by strangebrew

Comment 190 by Marcus Small

I used the polo/doughnut because the substance of the doughnut/polo is a metaphor for that which is manifest in the religious life in terms of community and practice and the believer’s experience of them. No one can deny their reality. It is these which sustain a religious life, not the hole in the middle which stands for the unanswered (unanswered for me that is), question of God.

You seem to imply that gods existence or indeed non-existence is a minor detail...one to be viewed as a Weather Barometer on the wall that is given a tap or a finger flick from time to time in passing to see if it flinches?

In fact according to how I read you the main import of religion is the actual interaction with folk, the community and practice of ceremony and liturgy and how that impresses the sheeple and their experience of it. I do not suggest that some clerics do not do a worthwhile watered down version of social security

I am sure there is some outstanding help and counselling offered...unfortunately the outstanding is somewhat diluted to homoeopathic strength by the proselytizing evangelicals with the shiny eyes and intractable desire to lay their twisted hang ups on victims that really need good advice and not jeebus drooling dogma!

i maintain religion is a crock, it always has been, but I have no real desire to see it vanquished totally, besides it is impracticable and virtually impossible to educate all the present victims, your self included, in how to think truly analytically, but that said religion should be a private at home affair, it has no place in the public arena... none!

Comment 194 by Marcus Small

I still think Dennett does it better

But obviously not 'better enough' to convince you! It would appear that no one has the words to sway your self imposed delusion back to a testable rationality, the real sort not the invented twaddle most theologians dream up to excuse their ..ahem!...fantasy world.

Be that as it may...

Religion might well be adapting to the environment...

It seems to me that religion on the ground is becoming less dogmatic

The C of E nearly ex top doggy seems to extrude the same rhetoric as your metaphorical adventure into polo land.

With his now infamous...

“silent waiting on the truth, pure sitting and breathing in the presence of the question mark”

Seems he cannot find his hole neither...or maybe he did and that is his problem it being a hole and all that suggests. But the point is he was rather a laid back ecclesiastical without a valid clue maybe, but relaxed enough not to throw a bunch of back stabbing cretins in the tower for jumping ship a while back and joining the competition.

So not really a Tommy Becket reaction a Tommy Cranmer or a Tommy Wolsey, or was he RC?, what the hey they are all much of a muchness any-ways! Surprised Rowan was not a Thomas, well that is breaking the mould to start with!

But is it not a little to late to reinvent the invention?

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:48:38 UTC | #946869

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 176 by strangebrew

Comment 171 by Marcus Small

But it seems to me then that you have nothing to say to the Gay Christian, other than stop being Christian.

It is not the gay xians that require a word...it is the holier then thou 'haters 4 jeebus' that need a little word in their shell like, preferentially by 'moderate' jeebus droolers and that would have more effect and better chances of being heeded then the bigoted chorus et al of jeebus sunbeams being harangued by the anti-god contingent that they all despise equally and would never listen to anyway even if their warped little lives depended on it.

But unfortunately the hatred and discrimination is seemingly now rampant in the 'moderate ' camp as well...seems xians cannot get enough of that' teh ghey bashing fur jeebus!' Probably cos they don't tener cojones to take on the rational squad and bullies love the weakest target!

god loves him some homophobic shepherds

So in other words never mind berating the "opposition' about lack of a cohesive strategy...your task, should you choose to accept it, lies closer to home then should make you comfortable!

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:00:21 UTC | #946833

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 141 by strangebrew

What about Bertrand's teapot?

Richard Dawkins,

A Devil’s Chaplain:

The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell’s teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don’t exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don’t stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don’t warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don’t kneecap those who put the tea in first

But of course a teapot orbiting the sun in an elliptical orbit is a silly notion...how much sillier can it get?

Oh yeah...talking snakes and magikal sky fairies... .

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:30:22 UTC | #946767

Go to: Why We Don't Believe in Science

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 47 by strangebrew

This is a direct result of molly coddling a 'belief system' in the class room. To not challenge an orthodox explanation and to allow the rest of the class to go uneducated because one or several students are to precious and to indoctrinated at home by fallacious and subjective twaddle.

Ya reap what ya sow...and sewing a get out clause into every situation in life from classroom to work is not showing respect or sensitivity, it is dumbing down a whole generation, some of whom are not actually religious. That is not a springboard to success or long term happiness...it is slamming a cell door on science and giving ridiculous and dumb ideas to rule a world It is sacrificing over 300 years of work and deep thought by some very brave and intelligent folk...it is an insult to their memory.

A sad indictment of the human race, and an even sadder indictment of the inherent stupidity in politicians and school boards.

So yes...Ya reap what ya sow...and what you get is dumbness and ignorance...enjoy!

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:27:31 UTC | #946708

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 127 by strangebrew

Comment 124 by AULhall

I concluded quite a while ago that the 'average' passionate theist is a very insecure and desperately confused contradiction continually battling an internal tumult of doubt and anxiety in the world and in relationships and their place and function in a society that overtly accepts the fairy story as a 'normal' facet of life. They listen to the preachers and the politicians they are relived that some one might have an answer, even if it sounds like gobbly gook.

They all want to be accepted and respected in their sphere of life from family to neighbours to town councillors to work colleagues they need acceptance, it is what defines their life.

Not so different from the vast majority of humanity, but the overriding and insidious nature of the cultural meme...Religion...poses some awkward hurdles, because that is a defining trait all on its ownsome!

A good upstanding well respected god fearing bunny fits in, to do otherwise is social suicide, it is a fear ever present and ever requiring maintenance.

But there are doubts, sometimes doubts that call into existence a scepticism of the very essence of the culture they exist in.

They dare not entertain such thoughts publicly, that is a no no...but the questions never diminish and prick and lurk in the shadows...and human beings are a curious creature by dint of a brain that works in the abstract, an unusual trait but one which also defines humanity...it makes the brain ask questions.

They look for answers beyond the droning pastor and dull minister and the sycophantic hullabaloo of a congregation on a full 'jeebus lurve' in' ...because all those folks are doubtful as well and the best way to dispel the uncomfortable is to pretend otherwise and over compensate for the internal chaos which results in everyone wanting to out do one and other in the holier then thou stakes...street cred is a very serious business...but leaves a certain isolation in everyone's life, although all the theists in the group will claim that they are one big happy family in Christ, and so it goes.

The more practical doubters try to dispel their doubts...by seeking confirmation of the meme from beyond the community they grew up in.

Some find relief in Lee Strobel, confirmation bias incarnate...some find the argument of WCL convincing and comforting others find the likes of Behe a few find Richard Dawkins...then the shit really hits the proverbial.

But in general yes I think a significant proportion of the theist movement are not satisfied but dare not raise oral doubts, they scour bookshops and others scour the internet...but they are asking questions...and that is better then no questions at all.

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:19:22 UTC | #946696

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 113 by strangebrew

Comment 110 by Marcus Small

However is they are regular mass attenders who take their faith practice seriously, the fact that their beliefs are in parts at variance with the orthodox RC belief does not mean that they are not Roman Catholics.

That is the point...if they took their faith seriously they would accept without question the transubstantiation nonsense...but 2/3rd do not...a 'true' RC faith head would have to because that is the major part of the deal they enter into for their confession to wipe away the guilt.

I would go as far as to say that an orthodox RC believer who did nothing about it, and never went near a church, would be less of a Roman catholic than the people in question.

Not according to the Roman Catholic Church that would eagerly count, and subsequently boast about,any and all adherents whatever their status...when numbers and not souls are required it matters not to the church where they are in church or the pub all is good!

Tis but a passing wonder they do not go Mormon on this point and count the dead ones as well...or maybe they do!

Sat, 09 Jun 2012 17:02:33 UTC | #946583

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 100 by strangebrew

Comment 99 by Dovahkiin

How anyone can be a catholic after the scandal of exposed, systematic mass child molestation by clergy is beyond ridiculous

I would go so far as to claim that every single Catholic to day is responsible for their church and its behaviour. The devout ones are by far the guiltiest, but by default are the least capable of realization, but even the ones that play nowt but lip service to their traditional allegiance are enablers. If they feel no real justification for slavishly believing the fanciful nonsense churned out by a discredited and rotten to the core credo, then they must act.

Strip this poxy imbecilic disgraceful cult of numbers, and they will fold...simples!

If they are really moved to revulsion about what their church has done and very likely continues to do, then they only have the one course of action to follow, leave the church and a disreputable faith that lies, let them prove they are truly human and therefore are deserving of the term of humanity !

I am not holding my breath!

Sat, 09 Jun 2012 14:02:46 UTC | #946563

Go to: Dawkins calls for 'Catholic' honesty

strangebrew's Avatar Jump to comment 97 by strangebrew

Comment 73 by Cartomancer

Excellent comment Cartomancer, as we have come to expect.

What transubstantiation means is that you're eating real flesh and drinking real blood, they just happen to look and taste like bread and wine. They're flesh and blood in every way that matters to their being flesh and blood, it's merely the way they affect human senses that's different. Their sensory emanations, on this model, are not essential and necessary to their fundamental nature as flesh and blood.

Which pretty damn spot on matches the definition of transubstantiation provided by the 'The Modern Catholic Dictionary'

These feckers just make up definitions and reality as they go along to suit. The difference b'tween 'n' b'twixt the katolik necromancers and advertising standards authority is that the ASA will pull up those companies that make fantastical and bogus claims and make them withdraw such hyperbola as a matter of course.

I am of the somewhat jaundiced opinion that such high faluting complicated miasma of a language in meaning while attempting to reflect such priggish thought process is a deliberate and sustained campaign to give a high glamour gloss to their juvenile claims as an impression, larger then life itself, that the ecclesiastical's have answers...therefore god....it is a thin veneer of faux respectability for barking bollix. A bit like their early medieval architecture built to impress awe and strike fear and trepidation into the hearts and minds of the sheeple...it is a parlour trick, smoke and mirrors...where a grand impression to stun an audience is worth a thousand threats.

So language designed to basically fool the sheeple, that is why they use such colourful metaphor and intricate definitions, most folk feel happy enough that the church has an apparent answer...therefore god... in their dogma but very few would actively try to understand verbatim the vacuous and vague apologetics made in theology. Theology seems to be basically a self repair system, always making patches and stitches in time to earlier emergency work on the gaps tears and rends in a thread bare fabric that long long ago lost its pristine appearance.

They tried the same trick by trying to keep the bible in Latin, that did not work either. Hide the facts...it is the only way they can survive, it also explains why they lie and whine a lot.

Some of the duller sheeple are so smitten and awed they try to use the same language that impressed them in a shaky facsimile of the bollix that passes for RCC theology...hence we are treated to the likes of John Robinson # 14 pontificating on the nitty gritty without a valid idea as to what the real purpose of that language actually is...a pompous erroneous parrot with no clue and even less understanding.

Sat, 09 Jun 2012 11:18:25 UTC | #946552