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← Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on Mother Teresa

Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on Mother Teresa - Comments

jimmm33's Avatar Comment 1 by jimmm33

Great little debate.

I was wondering what Hitchens would have to say about Mother Teresa's lack of faith. Bill Donohue got beat up on pretty bad. What's his hang up about the dimensions of Hitchen's book? That was weird.

I like how Matthews said Hitchen's writing where brilliant at the end.

Great stuff.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:46:00 UTC | #62920

Kinobe's Avatar Comment 2 by Kinobe

Bill Donohue was trying to look on top of things, but was clearly wetting himself.

"The only people who don't have doubts today are dogmatic atheists. People like you, Chris"

"Christopher."

Gold.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:59:00 UTC | #62924

Inferno's Avatar Comment 3 by Inferno

Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa's side ... Brilliant!

Does this now mean that if any good did come out of her life's work, we chalk that up as a win for atheism, ie she did it despite a lack of faith, not because of it?

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:07:00 UTC | #62927

Lucas_the_heretic's Avatar Comment 4 by Lucas_the_heretic

"An Englishman has to be quiet when an Irishman talks." Donahue really pulls out all the theist stops here. Change the subject, talk over your opponent, shout, and when all else fails, threaten violence. "I'm an Irishman. Listen, you want to take it outside, Christopher, that's fine."

I'm surprised Donahue didn't threaten Hitchens with fire and brimstone.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:08:00 UTC | #62928

LeeLeeOne's Avatar Comment 5 by LeeLeeOne

The education of the many (mass public availability for information) outweighs the need for education of the few (i.e., behind closed doors disclosures).

This relates to all political, environmental, social, economical, etc., entities. Information and education of ALL must take priority, even at the expense of a "precious memory of the beholden" (as I was once verbally reminded of).

Truth teaches. Lies deceive.

To hold honesty and I mean rock-bottom, deep-down honesty, up to the test of "rose-colored glasses", what ultimately teaches more? Honesty to lies - which is better for humanity?!

Truth teaches, even hard-to-swallow, teaches truth.

Lies, even white-innocent-lies, teaches lies.

Ultimately, in the betterment for humanity, for the betterment of everything, which is best?, and I do not speak of short-term gains, I'm talking about the 'long haul', perhaps even billions of years!

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:12:00 UTC | #62929

dancingthemantaray's Avatar Comment 6 by dancingthemantaray

Gosh, didn't the catholic sound so shrill and desperate..don't much like Hitchens, and don't think he actually had anything to say here, but he really is a master at overpowering a debate and coming off the victor

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:19:00 UTC | #62931

roach's Avatar Comment 7 by roach

Ugh. Donahue is such a blowhard. What the hell does "The Missionary Position" have to do with MT's letters of doubt? It would have been nice if Matthews kept them on point.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:21:00 UTC | #62933

plastictowel's Avatar Comment 8 by plastictowel

What a dolt.
"only dogmatic atheist don't have doubt"
The entire PREMISE OF ATHEISM IS DOUBT.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:28:00 UTC | #62937

John P's Avatar Comment 9 by John P

Where does Matthews stand?

"Your writings are BRILLIANT!"

And he wasn't speaking to Donohue.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:00 UTC | #62938

phasmagigas's Avatar Comment 10 by phasmagigas

Irishman?? he sounds like no Irishman ive ever heard. He figures by saying that that every person in the USA with any degree of irish ancestry will take him seriously. Can you imagine anybody of any other nationality saying that and not causing a riot.

aside, what have any of Bills comments got to do with MT's apparent lack of belief?? One of the most desperate rants off topic ive ever heard.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:56:00 UTC | #62948

Shuggy's Avatar Comment 11 by Shuggy

I didn't know this word a couple of months ago* but now I can use it with confidence:

PWNED!

*and I still don't know how to pronounce it.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:01:00 UTC | #62951

RickM's Avatar Comment 12 by RickM

Donohue is a Superbuzzhead; no further comment necessary.

Saint Teresa; the first atheist saint?

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:06:00 UTC | #62955

Auld's Avatar Comment 13 by Auld

"The church kept her letters even though one of her dying wishes was to have them destroyed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Gv68wRC1Y

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:27:00 UTC | #62959

mintcheerios's Avatar Comment 14 by mintcheerios

Donohue is an idiot.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:35:00 UTC | #62960

quilsnavious's Avatar Comment 15 by quilsnavious

MT probably did more good than harm and I am sure she helped people. The fact that she had a crisis of faith is a minor item. The works she did, both good and bad, could have been done by someone who had different beliefs or no beliefs. I find the honesty of her letters refreshing, but sad. She was just playing a role that others had written for her - she knew it was not real - but the Church insisted that it was real. This is kind of like going to see peter pan at a children's theater and pretending that you don't see the wires.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:36:00 UTC | #62961

Crazymalc's Avatar Comment 16 by Crazymalc

"An Englishman has to be quiet when an Irishman talks."

"Do you want to take it outside?!"

And they accuse Hitchens of being arrogant...

What a horrible small minded little man

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:40:00 UTC | #62963

robotaholic's Avatar Comment 17 by robotaholic

you were right 66346 Auld - they kept her letters, even though it was her dying wish that they be destroyed -that is pretty much proof of what Hitchens says that she was used for publicity- I think that's terrible. Now when you look up famous atheists on google, mabye you'll get mother theresa :))

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:00 UTC | #62965

Dr Benway's Avatar Comment 18 by Dr Benway

James Bond vs. Elmer Fudd.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:19:00 UTC | #62972

EvolvedDNA's Avatar Comment 19 by EvolvedDNA

Is it just me or do I notice a lot of these religious appologists have that insipid smile on their faces, as if they are laughing at anyone who thinks they are wrong? Donahues never left his face the entire discourse. This must be some tactic they use to try to intimidate an opponent, which failed big time in this case.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:22:00 UTC | #62981

roach's Avatar Comment 20 by roach

EvolvedDNA,

I've noticed that too. It happens in all types of debates. I like to think that the insipid smiles are the result of the speaker being incapable of not laughing at his/her own bullshit.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:27:00 UTC | #62983

Vardu's Avatar Comment 21 by Vardu

If Donahue is the best the Catholics can put forward to defend the faith, then it's in deeper doodoo than I ever imagined.

And I think the "insipid smile", or chagrined grin, that EvolvedDNA refers to above, masks the intense desperation the faithful are experiencing these days as they begin to recognize just how advanced the death throes of religion really is.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:32:00 UTC | #62985

sabre_truth's Avatar Comment 22 by sabre_truth

When I saw the title of this post, I processed the name "Bill Donahue" as "Phil Donahue"...never heard of Bill Donahue before, and from what I saw, no loss that I hadn't.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:38:00 UTC | #62986

Chrysippus_Maximus's Avatar Comment 23 by Chrysippus_Maximus

Shuggy, it's pronounced "Poned" (like 'boned').

And yeah... Bill Donahue is quite silly, as are most Catholics... especially born-again ones. Crazy bastards have been saying dumb shit for thousands of years now...

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:47:00 UTC | #62987

heathen2's Avatar Comment 24 by heathen2

Isn't Bill Donohue the same guy from the catholic league that was interviewed on Penn and Teller's Bullshit! episode abour Mother Teresa? Seems like I've seen him on some show.

And the whole thing about nuns being "brides of christ" is just gross, sick and twisted.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:07:00 UTC | #62990

JackR's Avatar Comment 25 by JackR

"An Englishman has to be quiet when an Irishman talks"

Great argument, Paddy!

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:09:00 UTC | #62991

Matty Two-Tone's Avatar Comment 26 by Matty Two-Tone

Once again Bill Donahue slanders our good name by invoking his Irish heritage ad-nausium. Can't we excommunicate him or something? "Sorry Bill, but you brought this on your self. Enjoy being a 'West-British American.'"

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:39:00 UTC | #62992

sent2null's Avatar Comment 27 by sent2null

Shuggy, Spinoza,

Or for those cognizant of the variability of pronunciation based on its derivation "owned".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwned

L33t ...during the early 90's when others were wasting their time on bbs's I was learning yet another programming language. ;)

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:01:00 UTC | #63002

drbreakfast's Avatar Comment 28 by drbreakfast

Hitchens was sharp and the Catholic guy was blowing slogans, but I did not understand the point of the "debate." Hitchens applauds her for doubting her "faith" and the Catholic apologist just shouts "the Catholic Church stands behind her." OK, so they're both applauding her but for different reasons. What's the point?

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:18:00 UTC | #63004

Liveliest Crib's Avatar Comment 29 by Liveliest Crib

19. Comment #66368 by EvolvedDNA on August 29, 2007 at 8:22 pm

Is it just me or do I notice a lot of these religious appologists have that insipid smile on their faces, as if they are laughing at anyone who thinks they are wrong? Donahues never left his face the entire discourse. This must be some tactic they use to try to intimidate an opponent, which failed big time in this case.

20. Comment #66370 by roach on August 29, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I've noticed that too. It happens in all types of debates. I like to think that the insipid smiles are the result of the speaker being incapable of not laughing at his/her own bullshit.

It is most definitely a debating technique, though I'm more inclined to think that the speaker donning the smile is masking concern that he might be losing. It's for the benefit of anyone judging the debate. It's a kind of bluff designed to show the audience that the speaker is confident, his opponent laughable.

It's ridiculous, of course. As a trial lawyer, I know never to let the jury or my opponent see me sweat. But if I come off as arrogant and smug in the process, I'll lose.


4. Comment #66315 by Lucas_the_heretic on August 29, 2007 at 5:08 pm
"An Englishman has to be quiet when an Irishman talks." Donahue really pulls out all the theist stops here.

Is that a religious statement? What is that quote? Donohue repeated it. Apologies if I come off as an ugly American, but I've never heard that phrase before. Is it a proverb of sorts?

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:44:00 UTC | #63013

Big T's Avatar Comment 30 by Big T

So Mother Teresa endured both great doubt and great pain in her life? Doesn't everyone? The Bible and the Qur'an both threaten doubters with the ultimate punishment. Both of them, in my opinion, advocate a sort of totalitarian mind control. And adherents of both Christianity and Islam have caused, and continue to cause, great suffering in the world. We should all continue to think for ourselves, to ask questions, to examine the evidence, to doubt. "The one thing of value, in the world, is the active human soul." (Emerson) I believe Emerson also wrote "Nothing in the universe is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." Let's hear it for doubt, doubters, and original thinkers.

Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:10:00 UTC | #63020