This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Larry King Interviews Kathy Griffin

Larry King Interviews Kathy Griffin - Comments

jimbob's Avatar Comment 1 by jimbob

Part of me wants to laugh and go "Yay!" but part of me cringes too -- she'll undoubtedly be advanced as the stereotypical atheist -- and all of us will have to be on the defensive against the caricature.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:03:00 UTC | #67834

Quine's Avatar Comment 2 by Quine

Part of being in this 'herd of cats' is that each cat is going to do what he or she pleases, and that is just the way it is. It is very difficult to organize a group of people based on what they don't believe. Imagine trying to get a convention booked of people who don't believe that Elvis is still with us. Atheism has always suffered this problem of organization, which I think has to be accepted, and moved passed.

Don't worry about the stereotypical atheist, just do your best to speak the truth based on reason.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:16:00 UTC | #67841

BAEOZ's Avatar Comment 5 by BAEOZ

We all know that all atheists have faith. It's just another faith. Faith in communism, fascism, eugenics, baby skinning and broiling. It's the devil's work. God created atheists to temp believers and try to turn them away from eternal salvation. Atheism is a religion. Oh, I already said that one.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:24:00 UTC | #67844

BigJohn's Avatar Comment 4 by BigJohn

I love Kathy Griffin!!!!

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:24:00 UTC | #67843

Fanusi Khiyal's Avatar Comment 3 by Fanusi Khiyal

As I have pointed outbefore, it's this kind of an idiot that is the reason that so many good and decent people turn towards religion.

While the metaphysical claims of religion are bullshit, much of what it describes is real. Devotion, the Sacred, Sin and Redemption, Worship - these are all real, human characteristics and are among the most important ones. Jeer all you like.

Thanks to this idiot, the view of atheism as shallow and pointless will be engrained still further.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:24:00 UTC | #67842

He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy's Avatar Comment 6 by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy

Just from that interview she comes across as slightly annoying rather than funny, but then I guess I don't get American humour. As for her speech - was that it? The way it was presented to us, it sounded like she had gone off on a rant and might has well have said "Fuck you Jesus."...

... but she didn't. She had a little giggle, poked fun at all the planks who go up and thank god (because he's obviously more concerned about whether this twat or that twat deserves an award than the suffering of the world) and then walks off.

They're right about cencorship being better than self promotion. Just ask Frankie - he says relax!

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:30:00 UTC | #67849

roach's Avatar Comment 7 by roach

"Devotion, the Sacred, Sin and Redemption, Worship"

Why are these capitalized? Religion insults, cheapens, and greatly exaggerates all these supposed aspects of the human condition.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:32:00 UTC | #67850

skyhook0's Avatar Comment 8 by skyhook0

I thought this comment was fine. I'm pretty shocked to see this held up as an example of an "errant cat" on this website, which stands so firmly behind RRS etc. The "God made my football team win" attitude is one of the most disgusting parts of "faith," and also one of the criticisms of faith that is most easily accepted by the mainstream. This seems to be a fine example of lampooning an aspect of many people's faith that the average viewer can agree is despicable. I'm really at a loss for how this gets criticized while RSS gets lauded here.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:43:00 UTC | #67855

tdreyno's Avatar Comment 9 by tdreyno

"Devotion, the Sacred, Sin and Redemption, Worship"

The what now? Never experienced one of those... so much for the "human condition."

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:08:00 UTC | #67861

Janus's Avatar Comment 10 by Janus

While the metaphysical claims of religion are bullshit, much of what it describes is real. Devotion, the Sacred, Sin and Redemption, Worship - these are all real, human characteristics and are among the most important ones. Jeer all you like.


*jeers*

What nonsense. Devotion to and worship of something that doesn't exist? Not what I would call an "important characteristic". Sin and redemption? Among the silliest and most harmful of Christianity's tenets. The Sacred? What the fuck is that?

If there's anything wrong here, it's that you think these things are in any way opposed to shallowness and pointlessness.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:12:00 UTC | #67863

Richard Morgan's Avatar Comment 11 by Richard Morgan

Big John

I love Kathy Griffin!!!!
Me too!!! I just want to thank Jesus for giving me a computer and inventing the Internet and YouTube so I could see this clip.
This would not have been possible if He'd been wasting His time saving lives in Darfur.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:34:00 UTC | #67869

USA_Limey's Avatar Comment 12 by USA_Limey

She's an entertainer; this is how she makes her living.

Courting controversy and staying in the headlines is how these people keep their careers ticking over.

On the whole I am not bothered by this much, and in all honesty most theists probably will see it for the self promotion it is rather than anything else.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:35:00 UTC | #67870

Theocrapcy's Avatar Comment 13 by Theocrapcy

@jimbob

The stereotyping will occur regardless. Religionists have an in-built need to be simplistic.

You go girl.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:43:00 UTC | #67871

walk's Avatar Comment 14 by walk

It's about time someone called attention to the inanity of entertainers and sports figures always fawning humility and thanking a diety for achievements that are clearly their own. Thanks, Kathy!

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:02:00 UTC | #67876

The author's Avatar Comment 15 by The author

I very much dislike this person. Kathy Griffin obviously only said the ridiculous Jesus stuff because she wanted to be talked about. She could also have said "Fuck the Jews" or something like this. It didn't seem to me that she would care about anything else than herself and her career. I do not declare my solidarity to every idiot who thinks he/she can make money with offending someone, if it is religion or not.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:24:00 UTC | #67878

Robert Maynard's Avatar Comment 16 by Robert Maynard

URGH.
What an annoying person.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:29:00 UTC | #67881

Zaphod's Avatar Comment 17 by Zaphod

I am offended when moronic so called superstars collect awards and thank god when in reality what they are arrogantly saying is "Thank you god for making me so much better than the rest". Censorship is stupid.

The only problem I have with this is that I don't find Kathy Griffin particularly funny.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:00:00 UTC | #67888

walk's Avatar Comment 18 by walk

I can understand being put off by Griffin's personality and the way she approached this, but atheists in the US are so tired of being hit over the head by self-righteous, bigoted faith-heads ("9/11 was god's punishment for immorality"), that is nice to see someone publicly hit back once in a while, however crudely.

And, yes, she does this for personal publicity, but (rather than making a random shocking comment) I believe she's always spoken out for non-belief.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:21:00 UTC | #67892

Inferno's Avatar Comment 19 by Inferno

Kathy Griffin is annoying, but damn American theists (and Fox) get upset over the smallest things.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:38:00 UTC | #67893

nancy2001's Avatar Comment 20 by nancy2001

It's great that Kathy Griffin spoke out against religion last week. Millions of people heard her comments. The tide is starting to turn.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:59:00 UTC | #67899

robonstormymonday's Avatar Comment 21 by robonstormymonday

BAFOZ wrote :

"We all know that all atheists have faith. It's just another faith. Faith in communism, fascism, eugenics, baby skinning and broiling. It's the devil's work. God created atheists to temp believers and try to turn them away from eternal salvation. Atheism is a religion. Oh, I already said that one."

Is this supposed to be a joke? I really hope it is, because otherwise you have posted one of the most hopelessly ignorant comments I've ever seen.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:03:00 UTC | #67900

Thelonious's Avatar Comment 22 by Thelonious

Fanusi Khiyal: While the metaphysical claims of religion are bullshit, much of what it describes is real. Devotion, the Sacred, Sin and Redemption, Worship - these are all real, human characteristics and are among the most important ones. Jeer all you like.

Janus: *jeers*

What nonsense. Devotion to and worship of something that doesn't exist? Not what I would call an "important characteristic". Sin and redemption? Among the silliest and most harmful of Christianity's tenets. The Sacred? What the fuck is that?

If there's anything wrong here, it's that you think these things are in any way opposed to shallowness and pointlessness.


This is precisely the attitude that allows mainstream folks to write atheists off as petty, whining, shallow and angry. I see way too much of it on this site.

Janus, Mr. Khiyal expressly rejected the metaphysical claims of religion as "bullshit," so he's not talking about devotion to a non-existent god. I would suggest that he's talking about psychological characteristics here - and the ones he mentions are all very important and deep concepts.

I personally believe that the notion of sin is corrosive and destructive - nevertheless, it is important and may not be possible to eradicate.

Just because you don't understand the notion of the sacred, doesn't mean it isn't important. Mr. Khiyal is not your enemy - he just doesn't want to throw out the baby (arguably a good metaphor for, or example of, the sacred) with the bathwater.

What would you offer as oppositions to shallowness and pointlessness? (and, of course, "depth" and "meaning" are only simplistic answers - what qualities of life provide depth and meaning?).

Disclaimer: Let me make this explicit, since it is easy to misunderstand - I am NOT pushing any sort of metaphysical or religious agenda here. I DO think that concepts such as Devotion and the Sacred play an important role in a well-lived life (less sure about sin and redemption).

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:38:00 UTC | #67912

Yorker's Avatar Comment 23 by Yorker

First time I've heard this girl speak and while I don't find her terrifically funny, she veils her intelligence well. The main thing is she's an atheist doing the right thing and that makes her OK in my eyes.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:07:00 UTC | #67920

Yorker's Avatar Comment 24 by Yorker

21. Comment #71396 by robonstormymonday

You must be new here.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:11:00 UTC | #67922

Yorker's Avatar Comment 25 by Yorker

8. Comment #71351 by skyhook0

There are some weird people here. Your mistaken if you think everyone supports the RRS. Some, like myself, support them but a minority don't.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:15:00 UTC | #67924

HappyPrimate's Avatar Comment 26 by HappyPrimate

I'm sorry I missed the show when it aired. Kudos for Kathy and Sally. Don't be afraid to ridicule religion or unnecessary war when you are given a public platform. Kathy's remarks were so full of truth and it was so obvious that that is what upset Xians. People can be starving around the world but they want to believe a prayer will be answered for their every little whim. Funny as funny can be. Loved it! Great she is getting a lot of mileage out of it as well.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:50:00 UTC | #67933

Janus's Avatar Comment 27 by Janus

Thelonious,

Your attitude and Khiyal's is one of pompous pretense and fake depth that should have died with your belief in religious nonsense, but apparently didn't. It's an attitude born out of a perverse attachment to superstitious ignorance and fuzzy-headed thinking.

The two of you remind me of those new age gurus who wrap themselves in an aura of mystery and go on about "Being One with the Universe", or "Empowering your Inner Self", or "Feeling Awe at the Grand Interconnectedness of It All". And Joe Average goes cross-eyed and says, "Whoa man, that's deep", and feels much respect for these gurus.

But of course they're nothing but charlatans. The depth that Joe Average thinks he sees in them is not depth at all, it's just the feeling that most people get when they listen to meaningless nonsense that they, at some level, wish were true.

What do you expect me to think when some bozo comes in and writes in a reverent tone about Worship, Sin, and the Sacred (every one of those words carefully capitalized, of course)? You can practically feel the pompousness oozing out of Khiyal's comment.

Worship and Sin are inherently linked to theism, and can be dismissed as ridiculous by all atheists. To pretend otherwise is dishonest; what can "sin" mean if not to go against God's will? And what do you worship (_worship_, not admire) if not a supernatural entity or "supreme being"?

As for the other three concepts, since Khiyal grouped them with the two I just mentioned, I'm pretty sure he meant them all in the religious sense, but I'll be generous and give him the benefit of the doubt. Devotion, in the sense of passion or dedication, is certainly admirable, but what makes you think Kathy Griffin (or I for that matter) don't feel passion for anything? Redeeming oneself is to atone for one's guilt. What is so "deep" about that?

People call something "sacred" when they have irrational beliefs about it (sacred words? sacred relics? sacred cows?), or when they feel awe born out of ignorance. I feel nothing but contempt for both of these meanings. A person like Francis Collins will feel awe at the complexity of the human genome and will attribute this complexity to his magic daddy in the sky. Do you think that makes him a "deep person"?


To me, a person who is not shallow is a person who is capable of many kinds of thinking. For example, when meeting a new individual, a shallow person will only notice one, or a few aspects of this individual (say, his wealth and his physical attractiveness). A "deep" person will give importance to the individual's personality, his intellectual capacities, his professional competence, and other things.
As for meaning, anyone can give meaning to his or her life, all you need is to give yourself a goal, a purpose, and work towards it.

Here's a challenge: Explain to me how "the Sacred" adds anything to a person's life. My guess is that you'll either have to dilute the meaning of the word "sacred" into utter meaninglessness, or you'll be forced to admit that it must be based on religious superstition to be worth anything (and therefore be worth nothing to anyone who realizes that it is superstition).

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:51:00 UTC | #67954

Yorker's Avatar Comment 28 by Yorker

To all you wankers out there (you know who you are) who think that atheism is being damaged by some people of lesser intellect, I make the following blunt and simple statement.

Take your heads out of the clouds, your arses, or wherever they're buried and get a grip on reality.

WE NEED MORE ATHEISTS OF AVERAGE OR EVEN BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE; WE HAVE ENOUGH CLEVER PEOPLE ALREADY!

People will NOT see us in a bad light, they WILL see we represent a WIDE cross-section of humanity, the average Joe Sixpack as one of you dumb-asses called them doesn't give a shit about pseudo-intellectual arseholes who look down their noses at them. It is YOUR kind that turn them off; they want to feel there are people like THEM who are atheistic. I know this from meetings I've held with people off the street in my local community. These are their thoughts not mine!

Explaining God's non-existence to the person-in-the-street via philosophical or historical examples from figures they've never heard of is worse than useless, they think you're showing off your knowledge and they end up disliking you! It is the simple true examples that strike home, e.g. why would a loving God allow the death of your baby? The common people are not stupid but most are not well-educated; Prof. Peter Atkinson calls Edinburgh "the home of rationality" (because of Hume and the Enlightenment) but most people in Edinburgh don't know who Hume was!

So stop this pathetic crap masquerading as intelligent comment, we will win public support by wooing the public, not the intellectuals, we have them in abundance. People like Griffin and Sapient are worth a hundred times more than any of you nay-sayers out there, whether you dislike them, or think you're smarter is of no FUCKING IMPORTANCE WHATEVER! You need to grasp that simple fact.

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:23:00 UTC | #67996

Oromasdes1978's Avatar Comment 29 by Oromasdes1978

Hear Hear Yorker,

Oi you lot, stop being so negative! Do you really think young Kathy there is unintelligent? More to the point does it matter? Just because she has a weird smile and an odd voice, doesn't scratch the surface. I saw the video before I read all the comments and I really think she has got her head screwed on.

There she is saying "Look, I am a D list celebrity, I have just made a load of Christians spend vast amounts of money just because I said the word Jesus out of context"! She has got the religious up in arms over HUMOUR! Wasn't it Sam Harris who mentioned something about how the Klu Klux Klan was brought down by humour?

I am totally behind Yorker in his statement, the fact that some of us are smarter than others is bollocks to the core in most people's eyes. I am highly impressed by the level of knowledge on this site, one of the reasons I come here is because I want to learn a few things and hear different opinions (and slowly bend your will to mine mwwhahahahahahahha etc!) But I also want people to be aware of the damage that religion is doing to this world and explaining the Anthropic Principle to "Joe Sixpack" is not going to wash is it?

So why not have a media savvy D list celebrity show how easy it is to offend the religious, let the world see the hysterical rantings of the Bill O Reilly's and the Donahues of this world for what they are- meaningless rantings! She got an award for some dumb arse reality show, which I think even she admits in this video, she then goes up on stage and makes some funny comments about Jesus and how people seem to think their careers are built because of God! She is going to be making jokes in Madison Square Garden soon, what is the betting she will make fun of this event? Just think about who will be attending that show.

Bravo Kathy, go for it girl!

Philip

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:17:00 UTC | #68006

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 30 by tieInterceptor

I think she was great,

she is a comedian so she has a bigger leeway to say things and people are expected to take them with a pinch of salt and some sense of fun.

And the fact that they are bringing attention to all the censoring and the newspaper rable rable makes the theist look like a bunch of fascist prima donnas.

.

Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:06:00 UTC | #68044