This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Sharia fiasco

Sharia fiasco - Comments

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 1 by Diacanu

*Applause*

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:55:00 UTC | #118663

Styrer-'s Avatar Comment 2 by Styrer-

Absolutely superb. Typically thrusting opinions, magnificently expressed.

Keep up the good work, Pat.

Best,
Styrer

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:06:00 UTC | #118671

Negasta's Avatar Comment 3 by Negasta

For goodness sake!!!

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:10:00 UTC | #118673

action1976's Avatar Comment 4 by action1976

Keep up the good work Pat.
Another good Video as usual.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:12:00 UTC | #118675

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 5 by Steve Zara

Pat seems to me to be one of the very best at using these tools.


What about George Carlin?

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:17:00 UTC | #118679

bujin's Avatar Comment 8 by bujin

We need Pat to have his own regular 5 minute slot on national TV! Maybe just after the news or something.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:20:00 UTC | #118683

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 7 by Diacanu

Edit- To Steve.

Carlin is the closest thing I have to a God.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:20:00 UTC | #118682

Dr. Strangegod's Avatar Comment 6 by Dr. Strangegod

Hear hear. The biggest problem with liberal democracy at this point is its "bedwetter" attitude. As an extreme lefty American, I wouldn't exactly suggest waterboarding and deportation as ways of dealing with extremist Muslims, and I'm horrified with the macho attitude taken by my government in recent years. However, there is a limit. It is time to show true grit. We must stand forcefully upon our principles without shattering them in the process. Its not an easy balance, but we should insist on it. Tolerance, not acquiesence.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:20:00 UTC | #118681

Richard Morgan's Avatar Comment 9 by Richard Morgan

Negasta :

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!



Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves...
Land of hope and glory...
And did those feet in ancient times..
Oops, excuse me, just felt like a little sing-song.
Hope my choice of songs didn't make anybody feel too uncomfortable.
The sun never sets on the British Empire...well, perhaps it does now. I'm referring to the "good" old days.
Of course, Pat makes valid points in a direct and simple manner. The solutions, Negasta, are urgently needed, but they cannot be simple, I'm afraid.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:26:00 UTC | #118686

jakelovatto's Avatar Comment 10 by jakelovatto

bujin
Like Peter Griffins
"You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?"

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:27:00 UTC | #118687

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 11 by Diacanu

Richard-

That's what it is, empire guilt?

Well, you guys can't let yourselves get too emo about the guilt, or it becomes suicidal.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:28:00 UTC | #118688

AllanW's Avatar Comment 12 by AllanW

Yep, I just had a go at call on pharyngula as well. An example of a situation when one can bend so far backwards that ones head disappears up ones own arse.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:33:00 UTC | #118693

Richard Morgan's Avatar Comment 13 by Richard Morgan

Diacanu

That's what it is, empire guilt?
Not guilt, my fine transatlantic friend, (though I must admit it might look like that!) but just a way of pointing out to simplistic posters that certain problems could be more complex than they appear. Often the solutions are not as simple as some might think them to be.
As a teacher, I am well used to receiving complaints from angry parents about the "trouble-makers" in their children's classes. "Can't you just expel them, or make them stay at home or flog them in public?" they ask.
The answer is "No, we can't" and the reasons for refusing sharp, swift methods are usually too complicated for the angry parents.
I can understand them perfectly well, they have my sympathy, but....

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:37:00 UTC | #118694

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 15 by Paula Kirby

bujin: We need Pat to have his own regular 5 minute slot on national TV! Maybe just after the news or something.

Or how about having him as a regular on Thought for the Day? That would wake a few people up!

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:38:00 UTC | #118698

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 14 by Peacebeuponme

What about George Carlin?
Or Stuart Lee.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:38:00 UTC | #118697

Quetzalcoatl's Avatar Comment 16 by Quetzalcoatl

Another good video. Pretty much every one he does is on the ball.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:43:00 UTC | #118700

Richard Morgan's Avatar Comment 17 by Richard Morgan

Paula!
You're back!
Hallelujah!
And just when I was getting used to the idea that resurrection is a myth!!!
Back to the drawing board.
(Very, very happy to see you again, incidentally.)
(Well, very happy, at least.)

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:43:00 UTC | #118701

BaronOchs's Avatar Comment 18 by BaronOchs

joshuaslocum I don't understand that why are men claiming welfare for their wives in the first place? can't those women just claim their own individual benefits?

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:46:00 UTC | #118704

seals's Avatar Comment 19 by seals

A blast of fresh air - I love it!

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:49:00 UTC | #118707

Matt H.'s Avatar Comment 20 by Matt H.

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!


Believe me I'd love to. But saying such a thing, in today's PC climate, would be seen as racist and you'd probably be likened to the BNP and other far-right parties. There's about a million Muslims in the country now (not much compared to 59 million non-Muslims), but they want more than their fair share, and when they don't get it they whine and play the oppressed minority card.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:50:00 UTC | #118708

Paine's Avatar Comment 21 by Paine

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!


that's an easy one. it's because the Europeans spent centuries going over to the Muslim countries plundering, enslaving and destroying people in their own countries. It's difficult to adopt the moral high ground with people you have been oppressing for hundreds of years.

Ofcourse, nowadays the Europeans seem too stupid to realise that post-colonial guilt does not mean compromising on right and wrong.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:55:00 UTC | #118713

Richard Morgan's Avatar Comment 23 by Richard Morgan

Paine :

post-colonial guilt does not mean compromising on right and wrong.
Ah, if only things were as simple as that...

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:58:00 UTC | #118715

Adam Morrison's Avatar Comment 22 by Adam Morrison

Pat hits the nail squarely on the head. Now if gov't could display even half that courage and decisiveness we wouldn't be in half the mess we are now.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:58:00 UTC | #118714

AllanW's Avatar Comment 24 by AllanW

I don't know anywhere near enough to answer in detail BaronOchs but some benefits are claimable as an individual and some as a member of a marriage or family.

Tax allowances, for example, may be claimed for being married. Family allowance has recently been changed but is still claimed, I think, by the wife on behalf of children. Sickness and invalidity benefits are normally claimed by the claimant but may be assessed in conjunction with other benefits that are mutual or tied to marital status.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:59:00 UTC | #118716

Goldy's Avatar Comment 25 by Goldy

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!

Mostly because the vast majority don't want sharia and don't want an Islamicisation of the countries they live in (and indeed were born in). The media, and, truth be said, we, are condemning a whole group of people for the actions of a few hotheads and those that have drunk deep from the cup of perceived power (you can tell how deeply they quaffed by the piss they are coming out with now).
There appears to be a worldwide malaise with Islam, see how it is fast vanishing back to an idealised age of peity, an age that, had it actually existed, Muslims today would be but a minor cult in the Arabian peninsula and Mecca would be Jewish.
Besides, if the story I heard on the BBC is correct, we don't have to wait too long before the word cretin will have to be changed....http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7237663.stm
Apparently there's Islamophobia in this too...

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:04:00 UTC | #118717

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 26 by Steve Zara

Why can't the British (and the European people in general) just tell the Muslims to piss off and go back to Arabia if they want Sharia?!


Because Britain and Europe in general are representative democraties. Civilized representative democracies attempt to prevent the views of majorities swamping those of minorities. They act as a buffer, so that views can be carefully considered over time, as against reacting to the whims of public opinion.

In Britain we have a substantial Muslim population. We have no choice but to engage in discussion.

It is fine, and even amusing, for people to rant. The problem is it doesn't actually solve anything. If there is a demand from some for sharia principles to be incorporated into law, we need to accept that the demand is there, and figure out how to deal with the demand, even if the consequences are (hopefully) to show that it can't be met

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:12:00 UTC | #118726

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 27 by Diacanu

Steve-

Well, fundamentalist islam is flat out incompatible with liberal democracy.

Thomas Jefferson knew this way back with the Barbary pirates.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:16:00 UTC | #118728

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 28 by Peacebeuponme

Well, fundamentalist islam is flat out incompatible with liberal democracy
But its not flat out incompatible with democracy. Being that democracy is not perfect, we need to make sure that we educuate and lead people away from dogma.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:19:00 UTC | #118732

Goldy's Avatar Comment 29 by Goldy

From the BBC's HYS (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=4246&edition=2&ttl=20080210201854)

Added: Sunday, 10 February, 2008, 17:11 GMT 17:11 UK

As a British born, scarf wearing Muslim, I am quite upset about the Archbishop's comments as they have nothing but stir up in people the 'if they don't like it here they can go' type feelings-yet again. Most of us Muslims are law abiding and good citizens who have no problem observing the laws in this country and have not asked for anything else. We are happy living here, interegrated and have no wish to go anywhere else.

M Malik, UK/US


As you can see, all this sharia nonsense doesn't integrate them any and doesn't make them feel any more comfortable.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:20:00 UTC | #118733

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 30 by Steve Zara

Well, fundamentalist islam is flat out incompatible with liberal democracy.


Indeed, and this is one of the great issues for Europe in the near future, I believe. How does a liberal democracy cope if it contains a significant minority who disagree with the liberal attitude?

Oh, and regarding another post:

Stewart Lee


One of my favourites. Brilliant. And, incidently, very cute.

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:22:00 UTC | #118734