This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination - Comments

black wolf's Avatar Comment 1 by black wolf

The proselytizers handing out tracts and other material to muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are welcome allies to the Taliban, promoting the Crusades allegations. They are the ones killing people.
I found it ironic that Hall was sent home early. 'There are no atheists in foxholes, and when we find one, we make sure it stays that way.'

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:00:00 UTC | #196320

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 2 by mordacious1

If only Klinger new that being an atheist would get him back home faster than wearing a dress.

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:43:00 UTC | #196331

scrithe's Avatar Comment 3 by scrithe

I've seen a few articles like this on here, and though I'm not doubting the validity of what events he's talking about, I think the general assumptions about the military may be a bit off.

I myself am in the military, the Air Force, in my case, and I haven't really ever experienced discrimination, that I know of, because of being an atheist. It's also really well known that I am. And there are a fair few where I work that are also are some variety of non-believer. Now, I haven't tried to set up some free-thinkers group, and I haven't protested when a chaplain stands up to pray, but I don't take part in anything religious and I would, and have, openly discussed these issues with others while on duty.

So, I'm not saying that there aren't religious aspects to the military, many of which I'd like to change, however, speaking from my own personal experience, the organizations and supervisors I've interacted with have generally been very impartial and have actual led me to others that share a similar view as mine, within the military.

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:46:00 UTC | #196332

JamesDB's Avatar Comment 4 by JamesDB

This again huh
I've been waiting to see how this turns out, apparently the government is a little slow with regards to anti christian lawsuits.
There is no reason why they shouldn't find in favor of these soldiers, i have no doubts this breaches their rights under the constitution.

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:48:00 UTC | #196333

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 5 by mordacious1

Actually, the military doesn't have complete constitutional protections, they'd have to argue that it's a violation of the UCMJ, which, if true, it is.

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:59:00 UTC | #196337

Hypoluxa's Avatar Comment 6 by Hypoluxa

What total dip-shits this guy must have served with. This guys possible career is now up shit creek all because of some ass-backwards mentality of a few brain dead soldiers and supervisors.
Im fortunate that I never had to many bible thumpers in my unit when I was active Army. Im glad he stood up for his rights and is speaking out. I salute you Spc Hall!

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:11:00 UTC | #196340

Eventhorizon's Avatar Comment 7 by Eventhorizon

"Their purpose is to have Christian officers exercise Biblical leadership to raise up a godly army,"
This may well be the single most terrifying sentence I have ever read (shudder)

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:39:00 UTC | #196352

HitbLade's Avatar Comment 8 by HitbLade

GO HALL! Kick stupid people's asses!

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:21:00 UTC | #196371

altopelirrojo's Avatar Comment 9 by altopelirrojo

When I was in the Navy, I was still Mormon. Sometimes others would talk to me about my beliefs. But most of the people around me were smart and very open-minded. I suspect that if I had been an atheist at the time it would have been a fairly similar experience. I have a lot of complaints about the Navy, but as far as I know they're stance on religious issues is not one of them. At official ceremonies, one of the established customs is to have the chaplain say prayers, but I don't see that as too threatening. As far as I could see, chaplains don't proselytize , and their main job is to help morale. Does anything think that chaplains paid with public funds constitute a violation of the Establishment clause? I'm not sure.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:52:00 UTC | #196385

OverUsedChewToy's Avatar Comment 10 by OverUsedChewToy

"In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?" "

Yes, because jesus helped so much *rolls eyes*

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:17:00 UTC | #196429

mdowe's Avatar Comment 11 by mdowe

I'd be interested in hearing more details of the complaints of the other 8000 people. It seems every time I hear about this problem, it's always Jeremy Hall.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:50:00 UTC | #196440

tony1865's Avatar Comment 12 by tony1865

I just shared this CNN story with a friend via IM and he responded:

Paul says (12:54):
onward Christian soldiers - kill in the name of god and you will be alright my son
Paul says (12:55):
murder and blow a few limbs of kids in the process and you will surely go to heaven

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:00:00 UTC | #196447

Johnny O's Avatar Comment 13 by Johnny O

I remember whilst serving in the British Army, doing a joint exercise with some American infantry.

At the end of the exercise there was a parade, where they handed out some awards, but before it started and as it ended they had prayers. There were about 30 of us Brits and we all stood with our heads up straight laughing our arses off.

It may have just been this regiment, but when we socialised with them, they seemed to be poorly educated and predominately from the Southern States.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:09:00 UTC | #196453

action1976's Avatar Comment 14 by action1976

Johnny O
I see it everyday with the American troops out here in Iraq when you go to the Dfac there is always someone praying before they have their meal.
Makes me laugh I am sure it is KBR that provides there food not Jesus.
12 years in the British Army I never met a soldier who really took there Religion that seriously.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:43:00 UTC | #196478

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 15 by Dhamma

It's quite amazing one can get discriminated for not believing in what one cannot see. If anyone should get discriminated it's the morons that DO believe in what one cannot see.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:53:00 UTC | #196487

CruciFiction's Avatar Comment 16 by CruciFiction

"Anderson Cooper 360" did an excellent report on this story of Jeremy Hall last evening:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7xZgvkCIZzA

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:55:00 UTC | #196520

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 17 by Dhamma


"Our Pentagon, our Pentacostalgon, is refusing to realize that when you put the uniform on, there's only one religious faith: patriotism," Weinstein said.

If you ask me, it just goes to show that ALL faith is not just ridiculous, but also very dangerous.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:15:00 UTC | #196530

rokeisland's Avatar Comment 18 by rokeisland

I served 8 years in the US Navy. On the whole, most people I've ever met in the navy and the air force were pretty open minded about religion. They let you do your thing and they did their thing. yes, there were official prayers and such that I didn't join in, but no one ever reprimanded me for it. It was the people in the army and marines you had to watch out for. Yes, nowadays especially in the marines God is part and parcel of the training, weather the officially admit to it or not.

About the only thing I ever found offensive was the shipboard evening prayer, because I had to listen to that drivel EVERY NIGHT at 10 pm. One time I was on watch trying to keep the ship's steam catapults ready to go, when I got stopped in the hallway and prevented from doing my job because me walking around was offending some people praying. that's about the worst thing that the Navy Religious Corp (as I called them) ever did or said to me.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:17:00 UTC | #196532

happinessiseasy's Avatar Comment 20 by happinessiseasy

I'm so glad CNN is running this story. We need more stories like this out there. In fact, I'm gonna click on the "Email This to a Friend" link a few times and make sure it stays on the "Most Emailed" list.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:06:00 UTC | #196560

wagnerpe's Avatar Comment 19 by wagnerpe

"Do you believe in Jesus now"


I wonder if that guy saw the "sky daddy" swoop down and save him from that crash? They're in the Muslim world, so maybe it was Muhammed on his flying horse saving one deserving infidel.

It frightens me that these people are the ones on the front lines protecting us. You would think that rational thinking and respect for your fellow compatriots would be major assets to our troops.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:06:00 UTC | #196559

Broicher's Avatar Comment 21 by Broicher

"Their purpose is to have Christian officers exercise Biblical leadership to raise up a godly army,"

I just realized that they have nukes!

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:18:00 UTC | #196570

Isaksson's Avatar Comment 22 by Isaksson

When I did my service to this country (sweden), It was with a complete lack of religiouse influence. Im not even sure we had a military priest, shaplin or whatever you call them.

Religion has no place in the military, to my experience, and if someone are so inclined, go pray on your free time. Dont blame me if you lack quality time with your mate due to praying though.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:21:00 UTC | #196572

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 23 by Dhamma

Isaksson:

Then again, we live in the world's most atheist country ;)

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:24:00 UTC | #196574

carloshguzman's Avatar Comment 24 by carloshguzman

The only thing that the US ARMY needs is to put a big cross on the soldiers uniform, and they can revive the Crusades. They already have send young boys to die on a far foreign country in the defense of stupid ideas and some oil.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:28:00 UTC | #196577

Isaksson's Avatar Comment 25 by Isaksson

Dhamma

So true, and look how horrible we are, starting wars, crime going through the roof, terrorism, and... Wait a minute!!!!

One thing though, I really dont like this FRA survailance thing our goverment are doing. It has to be withdrawn, or it will cost us who live here and this country greatly, I fear. Thats another topic, however.

All in all, it's not a bad place to live.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:38:00 UTC | #196581

j.mills's Avatar Comment 26 by j.mills

Deputy Undersecretary Bill Carr said complaints of evangelizing are "relatively rare."


Relative to what? And the question is not whether they're rare, but whether they're justified.

I wonder if the guy who said "Do you believe in Jesus now?" was wearing body armour. Reminds me of a letter in Viz! - "The Pope-mobile is surrounded by 3-inch thick bullet-proof glass. There's f*cking faith for you."

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:45:00 UTC | #196585

refuteist's Avatar Comment 27 by refuteist

Check out their web site which has a prominent notice about prayer sessions at the Pentagon:
www.christianembassy.com/content.asp?contentid=360

Originally i said "Just noticed today that the Christian Embassy seems to be active in the UK too:saw poster for a Pastor's talk:can't remember his name!"
Sorry the organization I saw is "Christ embassy":it advertises a "night of Bliss with Pastor Chris" WoW

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:46:00 UTC | #196588

jenlaferriere's Avatar Comment 28 by jenlaferriere

This concept of a christian military is an extension of a government that claims to be protecting a christian nation, doing the "good deeds" in the name of a christian god. The US governments realiance on faith in matters of policy is scary as hell! (forgive the pun) When this tendancy creeps into the military sphere, that's even more disturbing.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:57:00 UTC | #196594

flobear's Avatar Comment 29 by flobear

Well, I guess if you want to send poorly educated teenagers over seas to die for oil, it helps to have them stamped out of the same religious mold. Soon going to war will be our national pastime. Move over baseball.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:59:00 UTC | #196596

rokeisland's Avatar Comment 30 by rokeisland

"They already have send young boys to die on a far foreign country in the defense of stupid ideas and some oil."

Ok, now Carloshguzman, I KNOW that you didn't just call freedom a stupid idea. No matter what you say about the President's reasons for invading Iraq, or Congress's reasons for going with it, the soldiers on the ground over there are fighting and dying to help Iraq become a free country.

Freedom is never stupid, even if some people use it stupidly.

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:59:00 UTC | #196597