This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Teaching hate in UK schools

Teaching hate in UK schools - Comments

Jesse.'s Avatar Comment 1 by Jesse.

If you allow private faith schools, financed by the saudi government for fuck sake; what else would you expect?

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:29:00 UTC | #261542

Dr Doctor's Avatar Comment 2 by Dr Doctor

Well, I don't know about you but I'm a baby eating atheist infidel who is personally responsible for the continuing partition of Israel. I'm looking forward to burning in hellfire.

Britain keeps opening its legs to Saudi money.

Islam's stance on other religions is no different than any other religion. Other religions are just better at hiding it.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:36:00 UTC | #261544

Johan's Avatar Comment 3 by Johan

This woman is a slippery snake. The ubiquitous excuse of “being out of context” drives me absolutely bananas. The moderator showed some real back bone, however!

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:39:00 UTC | #261545

dmcdonald's Avatar Comment 4 by dmcdonald

This is great. In a round about way Dr Akyusuf is having to defend intolerant nonsense in the koran.

However, the real racism is that Islam was singled out. Lets have a couple of news nights asking why christan and jewish faith schools teaching *exactly* the same thing.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:41:00 UTC | #261546

Dr Doctor's Avatar Comment 5 by Dr Doctor

Johan, Of course she is. Get a religious bigot on TV and they are just going to lie, then justify it to themselves that you are an outsider so it is acceptable to.

Jeremy Paxman is a legend (the moderator), he never lets anyone get away with anything.

The real problem is faith schools. Remove the right to have faith schools, or faith funded schools and you deal with the whole lot at a stroke - no accusations of bias. The problem Britain has is that it has an institutionalised religion which does not itself want to lose its religious privileges and indeed, seeks to gain influence by adopting the tactics of British political Islamists.

It can be no coincidence these days that telling lies and being "of the faith" go hand in hand.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:45:00 UTC | #261547

GarrickW's Avatar Comment 6 by GarrickW

That woman was absurd; it annoys me no end when people don't answer questions, but instead slither about like that. Surely even people with below-average education can tell that this means they have no decent answer to the question and have things to hide. I like when the host said that the viewers would make up their mind about what she's said; she said nothing of substance in itself, but her way of answering spoke volumes. Shame that this sort of thing is going on.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:25:00 UTC | #261557

halbard101's Avatar Comment 7 by halbard101

This is going to end up as being Tony Blair's biggest mistake of his legacy. State funded terrosist recruitment camps.

Obviously this is an exageration but once these children reach teenage years and have been indoctrinated to jihad i'm sure we (the UK) are going to have a lot of problems with sleeper terrorists.

Actually we already have UK born doctors trying to blow people up, within 5-10 years times these faith schools might be one of the biggest problems facing the UK.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:30:00 UTC | #261558

DamnDirtyApe's Avatar Comment 9 by DamnDirtyApe

Shut that place down.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:34:00 UTC | #261560

Communist's Avatar Comment 8 by Communist

dmcdonald wrote:

This is great. In a round about way Dr Akyusuf is having to defend intolerant nonsense in the koran.

However, the real racism is that Islam was singled out. Lets have a couple of news nights asking why christan and jewish faith schools teaching *exactly* the same thing.

I disagree. In this discussion, one specific issue with one specific religion was brought up. There is nothing racist about that. Suppose that the premise was that islam was compared to other religions. Suppose for instance that Paxman had said that islamists in Europe are showing the same attitude that jewish settlers show in occupied Palestinian territories. Then the islamists would whine even louder about 'racism' and 'generalisations'. You can't win against these people. They will resort to special pleading no matter what the setting is.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:34:00 UTC | #261559

mmurray's Avatar Comment 10 by mmurray

However, the real racism is that Islam was singled out. Lets have a couple of news nights asking why christan and jewish faith schools teaching *exactly* the same thing.

That is not racism. Islam is clearly the most dangerous of the Abrahamic religions at this point in time. I think all faith schools should be closed down but I don't believe the christian ones are as likely to produce terrorists or students who think that people who have been raped should be stoned to death.


Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:41:00 UTC | #261561

Styrer-'s Avatar Comment 11 by Styrer-

This seems to be quite an old story (from Feb 08) which has moved on considerably since. This is not at all clear from the manner in which it has been presented here.



Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:50:00 UTC | #261564

capsomere's Avatar Comment 12 by capsomere

I don't know how any Western nation/government/organization can witness an exchange like this where absolutely no effort is made to offer anything even remotely resembling a concession and still be willing to completely capitulate to the most outrageous demands of these Muslim hatemongers.

This reminds me of an episode of Dexter (Season 2, Ep 3: An Inconvenient Lie) where he murders this used car salesman. While he's listening to this shyster spin an effortless web of lies he interrupts by saying, "it's like watching someone skiing moguls, you just jump from one lie to the next."

From an earlier scene in the same episode:

I think we if we truly gave paid as little concern for their "feelings" as they do ours, we might actual get somewhere with these people. If not, at least we can hang onto to whatever remnants of our societies these knaves haven't yet ravaged.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:51:00 UTC | #261565

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 13 by rod-the-farmer

I agree with DamnDirtyApe.

Shut it down. Investigate all the other similar schools, if they contain similar books, shut them down too. One question I have to ask. Where were the school inspectors in this case ? Did they just walk by and see there were enough washrooms ? Faith-based schools should be given particular scrutiny regarding their teaching materials and lesson plans. Either they adhere to standards, or their charter is removed/denied.

The claim that some chapters are good, and others not, is ludicrous. You can't have a book in the school with this kind of hatred. Students will find the offensive chapters. Imagine a western school, where some chapters in some books contain hate speech. How far do you think the school board would get claiming "Oh, we don't teach those chapters".

One last thought. If a xian school in western society had books that taught muslims are terrorists, you can bet the Muslims Society of Yourtown would be objecting fiercely. And that is far more based in fact than a claim xians and jews are monkeys.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:53:00 UTC | #261567

gcdavis's Avatar Comment 14 by gcdavis

What the **** are we doing funding these places!

British MPs should wake up to the threat that this bullshit poses!

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:58:00 UTC | #261568

furynick's Avatar Comment 15 by furynick

i think this is in freedom limits. freedom about religion. i don't care about it.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:02:00 UTC | #261569

DKPetersen's Avatar Comment 16 by DKPetersen

This is truly disgusting, although not at all surprising.

I agree with posts #8 and #10. Imagine if any non-islamic school taught anything remotely derisive or dismissive of Islam - there would be riots in the streets and buildings set ablaze. The double standard here is astounding. I am not claiming all Islamic private schools are like this, but this particular school should be shut down or forced to overhaul its curriculum.

This is exactly the form of child abuse explained in TGD, and should not be tolerated in any group.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:18:00 UTC | #261570

a non e-moose's Avatar Comment 17 by a non e-moose

man, that's a tough and oppinionated interviewer...

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:25:00 UTC | #261571

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 18 by Richard Dawkins

Jeremy Paxman is one of the world's most formidable interviewers, and he can be a bit of a bully, but in this case I thought he was at his magnificent best. The oil-funded invasion by the evil Saudi Arabian religious culture is one of the most frightening aspects of modern British life, because of its likely future effects when these children grow up. Apologists for it deserve, in my opinion, to be Paxmaned at every opportunity, and without mercy. Those on this forum who say Christian schools are just as bad have a point. But let's keep things in proportion. Christianity may be pretty bad, but isn't Islam in a league of its own when it comes to sheer vicious nastiness?

Nevertheless, I feel it my duty to point out that a follow-up film was produced, professionally, and presumably by a well-paid public relations firm, which put the opposing case, for the school. I have just watched it and my personal opinion is that it is deeply unconvincing -- a slick and well-financed whitewash is how I see it. But have a look and judge for yourself. Was she unfairly treated? Should the school have its government support money withdrawn? Should all faith schools have their government support withdrawn? The reply film is at


Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:34:00 UTC | #261575

nickthelight's Avatar Comment 19 by nickthelight

That woman was/is disgusting. Let us change the context to from 'Jews' or 'Christians' to 'blacks', keeping the hellfire stuff and then attempt to defend our views by claiming that 'it's part of a story and taken out of context'. It would never pass. All faith schools should be closed.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:40:00 UTC | #261577

Katana's Avatar Comment 20 by Katana

During the ages of 4-11 i went to a church of england primary school, mainly because it was the best school in the area. That's generally the problem with them, the faith schools are well funded and have better test results. You see a lot of people faking their religious credentials to get into these schools, because they want the best education for their kids even if they have to put up with religious nonsense.

I don't remember being force fed religion in school, though when you think back it was more subtle than that. We'd sing a few hymns in the main hall every morning (i just mimed), which praised jesus and his various doings, we'd have services every easter, christmas, lent and epiphany (the 12th day after christmas i think) at the local church.

C of E is rather tame compared to a lot of protestant branches so it was easy for me to shrug off later on, though i'd say i didn't really completely stop thinking about joining a religion till i read up on evolution and the bible in general and gave it a big miss at 16.

Not really a big deal in england though (being atheist) as religion is viewed with an apathy which is now beginning to play into the hands of more organised and fervent religions like the saudi backed schools/mosques. That sounded rather apologist for moderates but it isn't.

I did find a box full of school work books a few years ago and was reading through and didn't realise that i must have believed that crap because the line i wrote "i know that jesus died on the cross for our sins and is our saviour" was rather interesting for me to read in one book.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:53:00 UTC | #261582

Communist's Avatar Comment 21 by Communist

I haven't watched the movie promoting the opposing case (I am at work after all, and have to show a minimum of disipline :-)). But I'll watch it later today.

I have a view on this which is based in my ideology. I think we should close down not only faith schools but all schools which are not run by the public. This is not a human rights violation. The rights of all kids should have first priority, not the wishes of parents who wish religios indoctrination, ethnic or cultural separation or some kind of elite school for rich kids.

This used to be the firm left wing position. Unfortunately, many left leaning parties and groups around the world have been infected with postmodern woo-woo talk about 'identity', 'roots' and 'dialogue between civilizations'. Leftists infected with this trash ought to take some serious deworming medication.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:57:00 UTC | #261584

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 22 by tieInterceptor

good video,

but this is ooooldddd....

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:00:00 UTC | #261587

traintrain's Avatar Comment 23 by traintrain

Anyone who wants to ensure good coverage of this story needs to visit the link that Styrer posted above. The reason this women did not agree to have the book withdrawn is a case of not having the authority at the time of the interview. The book was withdrawn. See

Also, look at the date of this Newsnight interview. Its not recent news. Don't get me wrong here. I am not a fan of faith-based schools, however I am more concerned that this is being presented in a way that could be seen as selective coverage. A bit like the Creationist quote-mining approach.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:04:00 UTC | #261589

DKPetersen's Avatar Comment 24 by DKPetersen

I was barely able to stomach the response video - it seemed more like an excuse as to why she looked so foolish during the interview than defending the policies of the school.

The producers of this video seem to be upset that she was stuck in a corner and had absolutely no wiggle room at all. She can't blame that on an interviewer, she needs to take some responsibility for once and admit, at the very least, that her school was teaching something that does not fly very well in a country like Britain.

Her tactics during the interview (not answering the questions, sticking to her talking points, and distorting simple facts) and her subsequent spin in the response video(blaming the media, dodging the original issues), really makes me wonder why she is not working for the McCain campaign. She would fit in quite well.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:06:00 UTC | #261592

Ivan The Not So Bad's Avatar Comment 25 by Ivan The Not So Bad

That, a non e-moose, is Jeremy Paxman aka Paxo.

Hence, when someone is utterly destroyed by the interviewer, the media use the term "you've been Paxoed" ie. stuffed.

As Styrer said, this was broadcast an age ago. Since then, the Government has announced plans to expand Academy Schools (ie. a scheme where any fruitloop who has £2m to spare can buy a school, set its "ethos", and have it funded by the state). This has to be the worst idea ever.

But, as with the Vardy Schools (Reg Vardy is a fruitloop who on the back of profits from his car dealerships, coughed his two million and promply started to sneak creationism into his newly acquired classrooms) the Government just doesn't learn.

And amongst other silliness since this broadcast, a Catholic Girls' school has refused to administer the HPV vaccination to its pupils (it turns them into Jezebelles or something) and, although sex and relationship education is to be made compulsory according to a national standard, religious schools are to be allowed to have separate lessons that teach the religious viewpoint (condoms, gays etc. are bad) thus undoing the good work of the previous lesson.

Give me strength.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:06:00 UTC | #261593

DamnDirtyApe's Avatar Comment 26 by DamnDirtyApe

It's still a win, they've been exposed as dodgy even if they have avoided being shut down. I just hope they're still being watched.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:14:00 UTC | #261597

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 27 by tieInterceptor

ok, that 2nd video tries to justify and put some context to all of it, "it was the old curriculum "etc etc...

well, old or new curriculum, the fact is that a textbook filled with exercises as asinine as this

"fill in with 'muslims' or 'hell-fire' in the dotted line: Non-muslims will go to ........ and the most awesome people in the whole wide world are ........"

that stuff like this made it even once to the school curriculum, old or new, is a tell tell sign. Also the fact that a school financed by a family of religious dictators exist in the UK is retarded.

can you imagine a spanish school financed by Generalissimo Francisco Franco, with fascist motives and portraits all over the place... opening in the 1960 here in the uk?

Islam's not a religion, it's an ideology.
School's for learning, mixing it with all this narrow minded claptrap is a dangerous thing to do.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:22:00 UTC | #261604

fatpiranha's Avatar Comment 28 by fatpiranha

Considering the success of the atheist bus campaign maybe we should try to raise £2M to open an atheist school.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:29:00 UTC | #261608

Communist's Avatar Comment 29 by Communist

fatpiranha wrote:

Considering the success of the atheist bus campaign maybe we should try to raise £2M to open an atheist school.

Oh dear. That would be the biggest tactical mistake by the atheist movement in decades. Religious fundamentalists will applaud enthusiasticaly if that happens. They will then say 'Now you have your school, and now we shall have ours. Now you have your Darwinian evolution, and now we shall have our own science'. The real target of the fundies is public schools. So the correct opposing move is to defend, strengthen and expand public schools.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:35:00 UTC | #261611

Jay Cee's Avatar Comment 30 by Jay Cee

The government should NEVER have allowed new faith schools to be set up. They should have been gradually phased out like they are beginning to do in scotland.

But you have to ask the question "why have Labour allowed it'" There are a few reasons:

-Tony Blair was religious himself.

-Faith schools often have rich donors and so labour could save money. It's similar to their PFI scheme.

-Faith schools have snuck in the backdoor, hidding under a veil of multiculturalism.

-Parents in the south of england are desperate for places for their kids in good schools.

People are naive if they think this is a one off. This is happening in EVERY faith school to varying degrees. We are letting thousands of children down and letting Labour get away with it.

Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:40:00 UTC | #261615