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← Bloomington Rejects 'You Can Be Good Without God'; Lawsuit Underway

Bloomington Rejects 'You Can Be Good Without God'; Lawsuit Underway - Comments

Sigmund's Avatar Comment 1 by Sigmund

I would be interested to know if the city in question has a blanket policy against any sort of religious or political statements on its buses. If it bans all of these then their current stance is understandable. Perhaps some locals who are reading can answer this one.

Sat, 09 May 2009 20:20:00 UTC | #357772

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 2 by Rodger T

Come and see the repression inherent in the system.


Getting the message banned got it on to the news ,2 mins free advertising at primetime ,cool.

How was that fuckin` moron ,"no, you can`t be good without god."

Sat, 09 May 2009 20:30:00 UTC | #357773

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 3 by Carl Sai Baba

How much would it cost to rent our own buses and drive them around town? Probably too much. Just thinking.

Then we could skip the nice stuff, and do something like "Mohammed was a rapist and Jesus was a retard."

Sat, 09 May 2009 20:35:00 UTC | #357774

BracesForImpact's Avatar Comment 4 by BracesForImpact

Until recently, I lived 20 miles or so north of Bloomington. Indiana is by far the most southern-like northern state I've ever encountered. I have lived below the bible belt as well, and in a lot of ways, Indiana is far worse when it comes to discrimination against non-believers. Bloomington is home to IU, and is about as free thinking an area as the state is ever going to get. Good luck on their law suit.

Sat, 09 May 2009 20:57:00 UTC | #357778

kram50's Avatar Comment 5 by kram50

RightWingAtheist


I like that one, had a good laugh.

We could add...Ted Haggard is the Devil.

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:16:00 UTC | #357783

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 6 by mordacious1

If the policy is "nothing too controversial" then that could eliminate any advertisement. Burger King can't put up an ad because fast food is controversial. This policy gives a group of possibly small-minded individuals the ability to stop any ad. I think the ACLU has a strong case.

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:18:00 UTC | #357784

ksskidude's Avatar Comment 7 by ksskidude

Did anyone get the link to be able to chime in our opinions? How about the fat bus driver who doesn't think you can be good without god? What a moron! It astounds me that these people can't take a step back for one moment and think about what it says, "You can be good without god." It is very simple, the answer is yes you can.

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:20:00 UTC | #357785

Silvia's Avatar Comment 8 by Silvia

What I find most absurd in this case is that the advertisement was quite mild and totally uncontroversial. It wasn't really a propaganda for atheism, but a sort of self-defense. Atheists are just saying "Hey we can be good too". They are not even affirming they are all good or that the theist aren't good, they are just defending themselves from all the accusations of being immoral and bad and things like that.

But the comments I've seen about this fail to mention that and speak of it as if it were really a matter of advertising an idea or a way of thinking. It is not.

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:23:00 UTC | #357787

markg's Avatar Comment 9 by markg

ksskidude,

Did anyone get the link to be able to chime in our opinions?


Here it is: http://www.theindychannel.com/index.html

Down toward the bottom of the page is the 6News Talkback poll.

edit- I just voted in the poll and the 1st choice was leading with 86% of votes. I checked Pharyngula and it was posted there this morning, which explains the 86%.

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:29:00 UTC | #357789

Ohnhai's Avatar Comment 10 by Ohnhai

'You Can Be Good Without Thor'
'You Can Be Good Without Mithras'
'You Can Be Good Without Zeus'
'You Can Be Good Without Zemu'
'You Can Be Good Without God'
'You Can Be Good Without ...

Maybe it the wording? How about...

"Deistic tenancies are not a pre-requisite for ethical behaviour"

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:46:00 UTC | #357792

sterski's Avatar Comment 11 by sterski

you know what? I actually agree with their decision. What makes me proud of being an Atheist is the fact that we are not actively going out trying to change peoples minds. Atheism is a lifestyle CHOICE that a person arrives at through their own personal voyage - not through an advertising campaign on the side of a smelly bus. I would be equally upset seeing ads for Christianity or Islam slapped on the side of the buses riding around my city. Lead by example I sPr

Sat, 09 May 2009 21:58:00 UTC | #357795

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 12 by Old Sarum

11. Comment #374608 by sterski

I fully agree.

(See, I do sometimes agree with other posters :))

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:04:00 UTC | #357799

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 13 by Bonzai

OS

You may find the ad distasteful, but that is a freedom of speech issue. If they allow religion to advertise, it is only fair they should also allow atheistic messages.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:09:00 UTC | #357800

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 14 by Old Sarum

You may find the ad distasteful, but that is a freedom of speech issue.
No, sides of buses are not venues for free speech, any more than sides of buildings are. These matters are legitimately controlled by various regulatory bodies. There's a fine line between advertising and graffiti.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:12:00 UTC | #357801

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 15 by Bonzai

Well do you consider religious messages on a bus advertisment or graffitti?

Scribing things on bathroom wall is grafftii and you don't pay to do that,--unless you are caught and get fined.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:14:00 UTC | #357802

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 16 by Old Sarum

Well do you consider religious messages on a bus advertisment or graffitti?
I'd rather not see any such material on the sides of buses, and I don't like to see the atheist/theist debate reduced to slogans. It all becomes a very unedifying "is not!" "is too!" shouting match.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:17:00 UTC | #357803

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 17 by Bonzai

OS

I'd rather not see any such material on the sides of buses,


That's fine. If they rule that there should no advertisment of any kind I would have no objection. But if they only disallow athiest ads it is discrimination. This is wrong whether you like the message or the advertising campaign or not.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:24:00 UTC | #357804

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 18 by Old Sarum

But if they only disallow athiest ads it is discrimination. This is wrong whether you like the message or the advertising campaign or not.
Not necessarily. They might just regard atheist messages as being more controversial (in the sense of being more likely to lead to complaints by upset people) than religious messages, in which case it's an understandable decision. But I'd prefer them to scrap all religious/anti-religious messages. The sides of buses are really not suitable vehicles for ontological debate :)

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:30:00 UTC | #357805

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 19 by Bonzai

OS

They might just regard atheist messages as being more controversial (in the sense of being more likely to lead to complaints by upset people) than religious messages, in which case it's an understandable decision.


That is probably the reason behind the decision, but it is still discrimination. If you allow one side you have to allow the other side as well.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:32:00 UTC | #357807

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 20 by Old Sarum

That is probably the reason behind the decision, but it is still discrimination. If you allow one side you have to allow the other side as well.
I'd imagine the transit authority feels no obligation to get involved in the discussion at all. They're running buses, not chairing a debate.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:37:00 UTC | #357808

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 21 by Bonzai

If they don't want any discussion they can either run the ad or have a policy that disallows all religious ads.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:39:00 UTC | #357809

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 22 by Old Sarum

While I support that as the best option, I can't say I'm at all bothered about atheist bus slogans being banned, whether or not religious ones are as well.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:41:00 UTC | #357810

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 23 by Bonzai

Then you are adopting a double standard.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:42:00 UTC | #357811

Old Sarum's Avatar Comment 24 by Old Sarum

No, I'm just saying that I regard the matter as trivial.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:43:00 UTC | #357812

Sigmund's Avatar Comment 25 by Sigmund

How about "You can be God without being good"?

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:52:00 UTC | #357814

kram50's Avatar Comment 26 by kram50

Sterski

Unfortunately, too, too many are not able to make a lifestyle choice because their personal voyage has been highjacked at an early age, and you know how deluded the thinking becomes...it's not easy for most to engage in critical thinking after their path in life is clouded by untruths.

I have no problem with bus adds,..all of them have been mild and harmless. I think it is not enough actually.
Of course my point of view is fueled by an overwhelming desire to shed the world of the biggest scam in the history of humanity, before the fundies do any more damage to MY and MY KIDS' world.

Sat, 09 May 2009 22:58:00 UTC | #357815

andersemil's Avatar Comment 27 by andersemil

Couldn't we say it's a psychiatrist's warning?

Religion kills.
Religious worship while you're pregnant can damage your child.
Religion is bad for your health.

Sat, 09 May 2009 23:07:00 UTC | #357816

the way's Avatar Comment 28 by the way

Well I guess by rejecting the bus slogan, Bloomington is 'raising the consciousness' in other ways that it hadn't foreseen. Hopefully there will be a lot of media interest in the lawsuit.
Atheism isn't just for intellectuals to debate ad nauseum, it affects real life situations, in work, politics etc. Hopefully these campaigns will make people think about their stance and behaviour, much as the 'Gay Pride' campaigns did for Gays.

Sat, 09 May 2009 23:10:00 UTC | #357817

epeeist's Avatar Comment 29 by epeeist

Comment #374608 by sterski:

What makes me proud of being an Atheist is the fact that we are not actively going out trying to change peoples minds.
Who says the advertisements are there to convert people? The ones here in the UK were produced, as much as anything, to remind people that there are other choices. The messages in other countries seem to be similar, there to make people think.
Atheism is a lifestyle CHOICE that a person arrives at through their own personal voyage
Agreed, and as I say, the adverts are there to show that such a choice exists.

Sat, 09 May 2009 23:11:00 UTC | #357819

kram50's Avatar Comment 30 by kram50

Old Sarum


The adds alone may be a little unedifying, but if the result is an increasing dialog (I do believe there is), then it is worth the effort. We have gone way past the point of "is to", "is not" long ago..this is evident in the many debates, videos, news items, interviews, etc...both sides giving their argument/evidence. It continues....

A new enlightenment is worth an add here and there.

Sat, 09 May 2009 23:30:00 UTC | #357821