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← KRQE News: ''Anti Religion'' Billboards Surface

KRQE News: ''Anti Religion'' Billboards Surface - Comments

retep57's Avatar Comment 1 by retep57

More signs please, we need some down here in oz.
FFRF hmm perhaps i should join. Seems pretty quiet down here in australia in terms of billboards at least.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:58:00 UTC | #417311

Metch's Avatar Comment 2 by Metch

I don't like the sign that says "Praise Darwin". It feeds the idea that atheists somehow 'worship' Darwin, as the religious worship their gods and prophets. Darwin was wrong about many things, as anyone with a knowledge of evolution can point out. Imagine a Christian admitting that their god, or Jesus, was wrong about something(s).

I can't imagine it. I tried and can't.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:08:00 UTC | #417317

alabasterocean's Avatar Comment 3 by alabasterocean

Metch:

My friend, they do admit that, but they say: "We interpreted the text wrong"

PS. Well, maybe in a more theologi-cal way:

"The book of Mark in adequate historical perspectives, due to logic and the phrases of verses 6-7-9-11 and 19 in Luke makes the perfect word of God a bit more open to, well, love and other kind of poetry we call morality. In this way hell is more of an exemplar, and the rational is somewhat love and more love"

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:17:00 UTC | #417323

Sandra S's Avatar Comment 4 by Sandra S

2. Comment #435738 by Metch

Agreed. Science shouldn't be confused with faith and belief. Not that I think the ones who put it up had confused the two, but I think some who see it might.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:19:00 UTC | #417324

TheLordHumungus's Avatar Comment 5 by TheLordHumungus

"I just feel like, you know, if you raise your children to believe in something that a sign is not going to change their minds."

I wish that these people could understand the concept of indoctrination, and how their children have no choice in their religion.

Metch, I also do not like the Darwin billboard for the same reasons that you do not. It also seems like they want to upset the religious instead of find the lonely atheists in the bunch like other billboards have done.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:23:00 UTC | #417327

Logicel's Avatar Comment 6 by Logicel

Praise Darwin would work here, at this site, or at Pharyngula, as an in-group joke. But on a billboard? Wrong move. Very sloppy and disappointing. They could have done something like "you are entitled to your opinions, but not to your version of facts" and that "evolution is a fact."

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:41:00 UTC | #417335

GodsDontExist's Avatar Comment 7 by GodsDontExist

I don't feel the messages on these billbords are effective enough. We need to put up bible passages. The fastest way to create an Atheist is to have them read the bible. Most Christians have never read the bible. Let's show them what is in it finally!

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:43:00 UTC | #417336

Demotruk's Avatar Comment 8 by Demotruk

"Praise Darwin" is counter productive, and just plain stupid. Playing right into the hands of the 'evolution is a religion' brigade.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:44:00 UTC | #417337

GodsDontExist's Avatar Comment 9 by GodsDontExist

I agree with Metch about the Praise Darwin sign. I feel it is not very effective.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:45:00 UTC | #417338

bucklap's Avatar Comment 10 by bucklap

The problem with a praise Darwin sign is that it suggests that there is always a requirement for belief in a being of some sort. Surely a poster that says 'Praise the evidence' would be more satiric and accurate?

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:48:00 UTC | #417339

Gaz's Avatar Comment 11 by Gaz

I was in Alamagordo NM a few weeks ago and there seemed to be church on every block. Apparently a few years ago one church there organized a book burning for Harry Potter novels - now where have we seen that before???

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:17:00 UTC | #417349

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 12 by Carl Sai Baba

Yay!!!

The reporter is intelligent enough to qualify atheism as a NON-belief.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:28:00 UTC | #417352

Bala's Avatar Comment 13 by Bala

we need some down here in oz.


Let's first get the Atheist Bus campaign rolling in our cities.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:29:00 UTC | #417354

keddaw's Avatar Comment 14 by keddaw

@Sandra S

Science shouldn't be confused with faith and belief. Not that I think the ones who put it up had confused the two, but I think some who see it might.

Tell that to anyone who tries to publish a report that goes against the 'orthodoxy' of climate change.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:34:00 UTC | #417355

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 15 by SaganTheCat

Even if some find them controversial, the group said they arent about to take the billboards down.


no need, should be enough christians about to ensure it gets vandalised

Sandra S/keddaw

Science shouldn't be confused with faith and belief. Not that I think the ones who put it up had confused the two, but I think some who see it might.

Tell that to anyone who tries to publish a report that goes against the 'orthodoxy' of climate change.


personally I think it's counterproductive to try and seperate science and faith/belief. they are not the same thing by any stretch but in order to have a sensible debate we do have to admit that science relies on faith and belief. faith that the method of scientific enquiry is robust and belief albeit short term if needed, in certain basics of science.

what needs to be pointed out is that scientific belief is a belief that can be questioned and tested and exists purely because that is the case.

As an atheist it's easy for me to say all pseudoscience is bollocks but that doesn't help me engage with someone who uses a semantic argument that my point is no more defensible then theirs.

we should embrace faith

we have faith in science, faith in humanity (doesn't mean we submit to it, I have faith people can be complete twats as well as decent), faith in reason and faith in ourselves.

besides, they HATE it when we use any of their special words ;)

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:52:00 UTC | #417362

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 16 by rod-the-farmer

Billboard suggestion


Darwin did not invent evolution by natural selection, he discovered it

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:16:00 UTC | #417372

bethe123's Avatar Comment 17 by bethe123

Go Albuquerque!

I like the Darwin sign.

Praising Darwin rather than God has a rather blasphemous feel about it. Excellent. You would have to be stupid to think atheists are worshiping Darwin when the sign is being put up by the people who don't believe in religion, and hence don't believe in worship.

It also underscores the fact that religion has nothing to offer. There is no reason for religion. Every phenomena, all the mysteries of the world, can be understood by science. People should be made aware of the great discoveries of Darwin and evolution, if even on a billboard.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:29:00 UTC | #417375

bluebird's Avatar Comment 18 by bluebird

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:07:00 UTC | #417380

Sonic's Avatar Comment 19 by Sonic

Rod, I like your suggestion -- It works on more than one level.

Incidentally, your suggestion illustrates the problem I have with some "philosophers of science" (not the subject, but what some particular people have done with it lately). Some "philosophers of science" might write your suggestion the other way around (that Darwin didn't discover it, he invented it). Regardless of whether that might be "valid" (within that academic field), presenting that maneuver in this public debate would carelessly undermine the truth claims of science without making any effort to invalidate the truth claims of religion. The result is a net loss of public understanding (and I don't think anybody learns any philosophy from the maneuver, either). Again, I'm not busting on philosophy, or philosophers, but I am saying some particular people have made this counterproductive maneuver, and that irks me. I mean, of all the things I could write in public that might be "true" or "valid", I try to pare what I say down to the subset of those things that are helpful. And that involves effort on my part to anticipate how people are going to receive things I say. For example, I see I've taken about 50 minutes to write this post.

But I like your suggestion!

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:14:00 UTC | #417382

JemyM's Avatar Comment 20 by JemyM

These are anti-religion if it's religions agenda to get into government. Those who do not try to get into government is unaffected by this billboard, thus it's not anti-religion.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:20:00 UTC | #417399

astronomer24's Avatar Comment 21 by astronomer24

I like how in their graphic of religious symbols they put the cross at the pinnacle. As if it were better than any other religion ever made up.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:21:00 UTC | #417400

Rikitiki13's Avatar Comment 22 by Rikitiki13

(not sure if this posted - apologies if a repeat)
Just weeks before "the biggest religious holidays in the world", huh£
How about a billboard stating: "The only part of Christ in Christmas is in the name" - then below that list all the elements of 'traditional' X-mas that were co-opted by the church: the tree, gift-giving, etc.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:34:00 UTC | #417402

Sandra S's Avatar Comment 23 by Sandra S

15. Comment #435783 by CaptainMandate

We can't call it faith. Faith is just not a good word for the belief in science. You have said it yourself that faith in science is hardly on a par with faith in god. Sure it takes some faith in science, at least if you're a hard-nosed philosopher, but in no way the same as in religion.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious belief

(Merriam-Webster)

The common definition of faith is just not something that applies very well to science. It leaves it too open for misunderstanding, and it is already misunderstood enough. Of course science can be questioned, but the only way to point this out is not to use a word that would suggest that science has no evidence.
As an atheist it's easy for me to say all pseudoscience is bollocks but that doesn't help me engage with someone who uses a semantic argument that my point is no more defensible then theirs.

And so your solution would be to use words which lend credence to what they say?

My belief in science goes no futher than the evidence gets me. Should something turn up that unambigiously refute evolution I'd be amongst the first to give it up. Some things I may have to trust experts to interpet the evidence for me, but as long as the scientific method is around, and airplanes fly while prayers don't I feel secure in listening to physicists when they say quantum physics and whatever is true. I would not call this faith.

Why would anyone pick one faith over another? If they equate faith in god with faith in science, then what reason would they have for believing in science over god and the Bible? Should we really help them equate the two by acting like science is a religion and Darwin a prophet?

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:37:00 UTC | #417404

anonbloger's Avatar Comment 24 by anonbloger

1 to the disliking the "Praise Darwin" ones.

They are either an in-joke which most people won't get or sadly mistaken. Worst thing is they will feed some of the common misunderstandings about those who reject gods and support science.

http://carnifexinsania.blogspot.com/

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:42:00 UTC | #417406

zengardener's Avatar Comment 25 by zengardener

Comment #435738 by Metch

Marked as excellent


Biggest religious holidays?

Well, I guess since it has co-opted the pagan holidays, and is also an incredibly huge, commercial sales event, yeah.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:24:00 UTC | #417411

j.mills's Avatar Comment 26 by j.mills

CaptainMandate said:

we do have to admit that science relies on faith and belief. faith that the method of scientific enquiry is robust and belief albeit short term if needed, in certain basics of science.
I find that very unhelpful. I have confidence in the scientific method because it works. I accept the provisional conclusions of scientific enquiry. 'Faith' and 'belief' connote unevidenced and thus unsupportable convictions.

Darwin, meanwhile, is certainly deserving of 'praise', as an admirable person, writer and scientist. But the religious pastiche 'Praise Darwin' is just asking for trouble, inviting a muddying of the waters and a miring in a pointless argument.

Still, good to see the inoffensive billboard offensive spreading... :)

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:29:00 UTC | #417417

cynthia_pismobeach's Avatar Comment 27 by cynthia_pismobeach

Glad to see large signs being posted. I for one, think it might let people know they are not alone in their thinking. For many years I knew I didn't believe in a God in any form, but it wasn't until I heard Professor Dawkins interviewed then read his books, did I realize, many, many people think this way. For some reason, I didn't realize I had a choice, or that I was "allowed" to say out loud I was an atheist. I really thought maybe something was "wrong" with me, I felt like an outsider. In a strange way, the signs posted might free people and offer them comfort to know others feel the same way they do.

I am reluctant to use words such as praise, or to use the phrase "believe in" for me something is or it isn't. I can examine an item, a thought, an idea and I can admit when it is wrong or doesn't stand up over time. I don't want to use words or phrases that religious communities use, it muddles up the waters, so to speak.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:34:00 UTC | #417418

eljeffe's Avatar Comment 28 by eljeffe

since i live in albuquerque, gotta say i'm loving these.
the pervasive jeebus element here can be depressing.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:55:00 UTC | #417420

stptrck75's Avatar Comment 29 by stptrck75

Cynthia_pismobeach @27:

I had very much the same experience of knowing religions were all bs, but it wasn't until I heard Prof. Dawkins speak that it all made sense to me. I think I just needed to hear someone come out and say it. Now I will happily share my views on all claims about supernaturalism (is that a word?) with anyone willing to listen.

p.s. I grew up near Pismo. Great little town.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:14:00 UTC | #417423

TIKI AL's Avatar Comment 30 by TIKI AL

"Praise Darwin" translates for the religious as:
"We command thee stoopid godbots to worship Darwin and smarten thyselves up".

Come to think of it, that second one might just work.

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:19:00 UTC | #417425