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← Unreported World: The Battle for Israel's Soul

Unreported World: The Battle for Israel's Soul - Comments

Sandra S's Avatar Comment 1 by Sandra S

Women in the back of the bus? Astounding. Will people ever understand that it's fine if you want to practice your religion, but it's not fine to tell others they must practice your religion?

Damn it, we who don't share your religion have every right to break every single one of your ridiculous rules and even make fun of them.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:24:00 UTC | #419919

Pete.K's Avatar Comment 2 by Pete.K

This kind of extreme religion frightens me, bad enough that one religion is against another, but one sect of one religion against another sect is the worst of all. This is how civil wars start!

Secularism is the only way forward for mankind, if religion rules the world we're doomed.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:28:00 UTC | #419923

King of NH's Avatar Comment 3 by King of NH

I hope their funding yanked. Unfortunately, here in America, fundamentalist and extremist wackos get tax breaks because it's "religion." The problem of religion is global and serious, but how do we stem the growth? I want to be optimistic, but it seems sanity is losing ground.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:32:00 UTC | #419925

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 4 by mordacious1

Where can I get a "hockey puck" hat like that?

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:36:00 UTC | #419928

NathanH's Avatar Comment 5 by NathanH

I am disgusted. Judaism is the religion I had before becoming an Atheist, but this pisses me off. Now, I do think Israel should exist (in a 2-State situation alongside the Palestinians who also have every right to live there). I also do think that Temple Mount is first and foremost a Jewish spot and that should be honored.

However, this is over the top. It is disgusting and pathetic. Fundamentalism pisses me off so much. I hope Israel stops supporting them and they're forced out.

I will say this, though... perhaps we could use them in America to help stave off the Christian right...

Or not...

Just thinking out loud... :D

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:39:00 UTC | #419929

Sandra S's Avatar Comment 6 by Sandra S

4. Comment #438395 by mordacious1

You get one when you graduate from Lunatic University.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:43:00 UTC | #419930

JSB2024's Avatar Comment 7 by JSB2024

A lot of Rapture-ready Christians only support Israel because they believe a nuclear war in the Middle East will bring on the Good Ol' End Times. They might even try to engineer one to ensure that Revelations gets fulfilled. They'll sure be annoyed when Israel gets flattened and then...nothing happens. No doubt they'll want to find a scapegoat...I'll wonder who'll get the blame for the Messiah not coming down from heaven after the destruction of an entire region?

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:45:00 UTC | #419931

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 8 by Tyler Durden

5. Comment #438396 by NateHevens

I also do think that Temple Mount is first and foremost a Jewish spot and that should be honored.
You can see why secterian violence is alive and well in 2009 with comments like this.

Sigh.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:50:00 UTC | #419933

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 9 by Agrajag

Where's Irate when we need him? It is to be hoped that Israel is able to manage successfully this changing demography.

Still, I can't help admiring the skill it takes to duck into a car wearing a cylindrical hat without knocking it off. Maybe these *are* the chosen people!
Steve

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:51:00 UTC | #419934

glid's Avatar Comment 10 by glid

I don't get it. They don't want the Israeli state to exist, but they still want to live in the exact same area without having to work, presumably under Palestinian authority? Until a messiah comes and tells them to set up an Israeli state in the same location?

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:54:00 UTC | #419937

King of NH's Avatar Comment 11 by King of NH

It seems the voting block of religious groups is the biggest problem. On the secular/rational/sane end, we encourage people to educated themselves about the issues, look critically at the candidates, and vote with reason. On the religious/fundamentalist/wacko side they simply say, "Vote for x."

Obviously, I still stand with voting intelligently on individual reasoning. But how can we possibly win? Any politician in any democracy will lose elections if this trend continues and they stand for reason, peace, cooperation, and secularism. The most solid "one voice" voting blocks are those of the religious, and the more extreme, the more adherent the voting block, the more favors they can gain from elected leaders, so the more extreme they get, the more power they wield...

I know Richard doesn't have all the answers, but come on guys... The Four Horsemen should have enough really smart friends to come up with a starting plan. Please?

The only small idea I have is continue to get people excited about science. It encourages critical thought, international cooperation, and spawns friendly competitive battles that, unlike wars, can be ended with a cold beer and some laughs.

Light bulbs work for the same reason in Israel as they do in Palestine. Yay, agreement!

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:58:00 UTC | #419940

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 12 by Tyler Durden

11. Comment #438407 by King of NH

Light bulbs work for the same reason in Israel as they do in Palestine.
The Power of Prayer?

*gets coat*

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:06:00 UTC | #419941

robotaholic's Avatar Comment 13 by robotaholic

Sacrificing chickens to bring good luck??? Women forced to the back of the bus? Modesty Clubs who beat up on single women?

That place is not going to be peaceful until it's emitting radioactivity.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:10:00 UTC | #419942

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 14 by rod-the-farmer

I think the box taped to the forehead is much more laughable than the hockey puck.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:13:00 UTC | #419943

Giordano Bruno's Avatar Comment 15 by Giordano Bruno

What sickens me to no end is that these fundamentalists have as many children as possible, Christians are the same all over America (the whole continent, not merely the US). Women (who are almost always second class citizens in these groups) endlessly pop out the future oppressors for yet another generation of the collective delusion.

The whopper here of course is that the Haredi expect a state they don't believe in and won't serve in to protect their crazy little (yet steadily growing) cult; let's see the Religious Right criticize this situation, which is obviously worse than that of the "lazy socialists" they despise so much (What, they don't mind it if it's for the sake of Gawd the Lawd?).

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:15:00 UTC | #419945

NathanH's Avatar Comment 16 by NathanH

"You can see why secterian violence is alive and well in 2009 with comments like this. "

I said "honored", not "held".

It is a Jewish site, but should be owned by NO ONE.

Besides... it wouldn't matter if there was no religion, which would be, I admit, probably the best solution for the Middle East... just get rid of religion. If there's no dogma for people to adhere to, there'd be no reason to force that dogma on anyone else, and, therefore, no Middle East violence (I'm dreaming, now, I know).



"The whopper here of course is that the Haredi expect a state they don't believe in and won't serve in to protect their crazy little (yet steadily growing) cult; let's see the Religious Right criticize this situation, which is obviously worse than that of the "lazy socialists" they despise so much (What, they don't mind it if it's for the sake of Gawd the Lawd?)."

That's what pisses me off more then anything else. They don't think Israel should exist, and yet they live there and expect Israel to protect them? How hypocritical... but typical.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:30:00 UTC | #419948

TIKI AL's Avatar Comment 17 by TIKI AL

Today's history lesson: This is a joke that a Playboy Bunny from Lake Geneva, Wisconsin told me when I took her for a boat ride during the Arab-Israeli Six Day War back in 1967. (Some Jewish businessmen at the Playboy Club told it to her while she was waiting their table)

"An Arab and an Israeli tank collide head on.

The Arab soldier pops the hatch open and screams "I surrender!, I surrender!".

At the same time the Israeli soldier pops up yelling "viplash!, viplash!"."

Too soon?

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:35:00 UTC | #419952

bethe123's Avatar Comment 18 by bethe123

If you don't serve for two years in the army, you should not be able to vote. Without the power to vote, having on average a high birth rate of 9 children offers you no political advantage.

Remove the welfare program, and instead of studying religious texts 24/7/365, they will be forced to get a job, or maybe even upgrade their education in order to compete for said job. Remove the welfare program, and the high birth rate becomes a liability.

The Israel government is a large part of the problem for allowing this…they are using Haredi as political pawns to fight for land.

The Jewish people have been give a unique opportunity with the creation of the Jewish state. It would be ironic and sad to see it implode due to religious fundamentalism and a foolish government policy.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:47:00 UTC | #419955

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 19 by Peacebeuponme

JSB2024

A lot of Rapture-ready Christians only support Israel because they believe a nuclear war in the Middle East will bring on the Good Ol' End Times.
Is this actually true, or is it just something we assume and which Reagan possibly believed in? I'd be interested to see if there is any research knocking about.

It would seem strange to me that God would include anything in Thessalonians about the Rapture being specifically engineered by man.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:56:00 UTC | #419959

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 20 by alaskansee

@4. Comment #438395 by mordacious1 on December 3, 2009 at 4:36 pm

I know almost every red blooded Canadian wants one too but of course with their NHL hockey logo on the top.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:16:00 UTC | #419966

v4ri4bl3's Avatar Comment 21 by v4ri4bl3

This documentary certainly belies America's supposed commitment to combating terrorism abroad. Here we have orthodox Jews terrorizing their own people! And yet we have an unconditional commitment to Israel's interests? No wonder Muslims think we are hypocrites.

Actually, I can't imagine anything more hypocritical than using a supposed safe-haven from ethnic cleansing as a platform to commit ethnic cleansing against another people. What a shame.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:24:00 UTC | #419968

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 22 by God fearing Atheist

Refuse to join the military = sitting ducks in a military confrontation.

So when they corrode their shield of secular Israelis and are exposed to the wrath of fundementalist Islam what is going to happen?

EDIT: typo

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:35:00 UTC | #419971

glenister_m's Avatar Comment 23 by glenister_m

I liked the speech at the end of 'Kingdom of Heaven' in which Orlando Bloom talks about how one temple was built on the remains of another, which had been built on the remains/site of another, and so on. So since all had claim to Jerusalem; consequently no one had claim.

Before you reach my next question, please be aware that I am NOT advocating nor suggesting nor hoping this would happen. It's just something that crossed my mind a while back, and I was curious what others thought would happen if it did occur.

So the question is this. When you have kids fighting over a toy, sometimes the best strategy is to take away the toy. So with several groups fighting over the same general area (christians/jews/muslims), I was curious what would happen if it was taken from them. eg. Say an anonymous terrorist obtained a nuclear device and wiped out the temple/wall/etc. or if a meteor struck the city and wiped it out, etc. Would the groups involved claim a divine sign of the apocalypse and essentially start escalating their fighting to WWIII; or without the focal point to fight over would they reduce their hostility to one another, possibly seeing it as a divine sign not to fight£

Personally I suspect the former, but hope for the latter. Or are there other options£

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:38:00 UTC | #419973

mlgatheist's Avatar Comment 24 by mlgatheist

The Haredi men do not work, instead they spend their time studying and reproducing more Haredi. The women appear to be stay-at-home mothers. So, their only income is from the less religious and secular members of the Israeli population. The Haredi are having 8 or more children while the secular are having 2 or less on average. Eventually the Haredi may have the majority of the vote, but no money to stay alive.

I have heard that many secularists (Atheists) in Israel are or have been leaving due to the heavy taxes to support these growing sects.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:39:00 UTC | #419974

andersemil's Avatar Comment 25 by andersemil

I can't stop laughing from watching that first clip... What stupid supernatural being could have created these idiots?? Mindless tribalism in its simplest form; single-celled organisms, with or without silly hats, would probably do better. The difference between this and a Monty Python sketch is negligible.

What a sad world their children grow up in, labelled by religion from the beginning and most likely unable to see people for anything but which cult they belong to and which eternal stove they will fry in if they don't kill chickens.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:41:00 UTC | #419975

Mr Blue Sky's Avatar Comment 26 by Mr Blue Sky

What a waste! Isn't religion wonderful! Ghetto building should not be promoted and their limited mental faculties used for studying only scripture will prevent ingress of common sense or 'normal' knowledge. Rationalists should do something but with the USA support to Israel this is a place that is effectively lost for the forseeable future. If only radiation was less harmful and able to be confined we could worry less but this a real and present danger along with the well known muslim menace. At least we live our lives to the full and accept they may be shorter than planned. Could you imagine what any heaven might be like sharing it with the religious!!!? Good job I am one of the damned.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:46:00 UTC | #419977

Alovrin's Avatar Comment 27 by Alovrin

"Hello Darkness my old friend
I've come to talk to you again"

This sort of thing just makes me sad.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:55:00 UTC | #419978

NathanH's Avatar Comment 28 by NathanH

23. Comment #438440 by glenister_m on December 3, 2009 at 6:38 pm

"So the question is this. When you have kids fighting over a toy, sometimes the best strategy is to take away the toy. So with several groups fighting over the same general area (christians/jews/muslims), I was curious what would happen if it was taken from them. eg. Say an anonymous terrorist obtained a nuclear device and wiped out the temple/wall/etc. or if a meteor struck the city and wiped it out, etc. Would the groups involved claim a divine sign of the apocalypse and essentially start escalating their fighting to WWIII; or without the focal point to fight over would they reduce their hostility to one another, possibly seeing it as a divine sign not to fight?"

I agree with you... in that I also suspect the former but would hope for the latter.




Quick retraction and apology on my part:
5. Comment #438396 by NateHevens on December 3, 2009 at 4:39 pm
"I also do think that Temple Mount is first and foremost a Jewish spot and that should be honored.'

That was my Jewish upbringing (and still SLIGHT [note that is SLIGHT] Pro-Israel bias... I have friends and family who live in and love Israel and I worry about them) talking. I regret posting it now and I apologize. I only "deconverted" to Atheism recently, so can I get a small break on this one? :D
I think that, yes, this spot should simply be taken away. Obviously the so-called "holy city" should either be shared or should simply not exist.

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:02:00 UTC | #419982

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 29 by Agrajag

20. Comment #438433 by alaskansee on December 3, 2009 at 6:16 pm

I know almost every red blooded Canadian wants one too but of course with their NHL hockey logo on the top.

You could get one here:
http://www.cheesehead.com/
... but I don't know if the cheese comes in black.

24. Comment #438441 by mlgatheist on December 3, 2009 at 6:39 pm

The Haredi men do not work, instead they spend their time studying and reproducing more Haredi...

Does a loose analogy to viral replication come to mind?
Steve

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:38:00 UTC | #419989

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 30 by rod-the-farmer

"They spend all their time studying religious texts"

......now where have I heard that before ?

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:48:00 UTC | #419992