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← Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on FOX News

Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on FOX News - Comments

Saerain's Avatar Comment 1 by Saerain

It's nice to see the Hitch around again, lately. I thought he'd retired from verbal expression for a while, there.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:30:00 UTC | #453781

Halfpixel's Avatar Comment 2 by Halfpixel

I'm afraid I'm too busy of late to do my own research into these matters. Can anyone comment on the veracity of Donohue's statements?

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:45:00 UTC | #453784

AngelsForAtheists's Avatar Comment 3 by AngelsForAtheists

It's not as much about what the pope did in the past. But what he plans to do Now. One word. Nothing. Which makes his history unforgiving.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:59:00 UTC | #453790

EvidenceOnly's Avatar Comment 4 by EvidenceOnly

Pope Benny Hex is the CEO of a faith-based "daycare center" for people who have mostly since birth been indoctrinated into the catholic doctrine and have not been able to escape their gullible state of mind and continue to believe what is not supported by any verifiable and falsifiable evidence.

If he were the CEO of a secular daycare center and one of his staff had molested a child and he knew about it and did not act, he would be in jail by now.

If he were the CEO of any US corporation and it came to his attention that there was even 1 case of sexual harassment and he did not act on it, he would probably end up in jail.

However, I'm with Richard Dawkins that Benny Hex can do more much more long term good to enlightenment by remaining the corrupt head of a corrupt organization overseeing the slow self-destruction of his organization.

There should be billion dollar lawsuits on behalf of these victims though on the premise that a dwindling organization with less money can do less harm.

If any catholics are reading this: STOP GIVING MONEY TO CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:06:00 UTC | #453793

Muetze's Avatar Comment 5 by Muetze

This show makes "fair and balanced" its punchline. What is the point of having two people make very conflicting statements on the same issue within 30 seconds of each other, if you are then going to completely ignore the implications of their disagreement? She just had them on seperately, said "gosh, what a controversy" and then dropped the issue.

Anybody who has Hitchens and Donohue on their show and doesn't even let them talk to each other is not doing their job right. At least on the O'Reilly Factor, abysmal as that show is, they would have had something resembling an argument. This was just a waste of airtime.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:07:00 UTC | #453794

AlphaAndΩmegaman's Avatar Comment 6 by AlphaAndΩmegaman

Wow....Bill Donahue comes on the TV to tell us that LIBERALISM is culpable for the uncovering of these crimes. Fox News really has no respectability. What person with the moral capacity God gave a goat could possibly defend this disgusting cult.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:10:00 UTC | #453796

Crazycharlie's Avatar Comment 7 by Crazycharlie

It's getting more difficult, every day, for Crazy Bill and other apologists to explain away the shameful crimes of 'The Church'.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:17:00 UTC | #453800

Apathy personified's Avatar Comment 8 by Apathy personified

I can't believe I just heard that. I guess it's a clever tactic - get in as many distortions of facts, slander (about the lawyer making 'hundreds of millions'), lies and red herrings as you can in the 4 minutes and try to befuddle your opposition with the scale of the inaccuracies.

Fucking hell.

Also, if he's really a catholic, shouldn't he be refering to Herr Pope in a more respectable way than 'Ratzinger'?

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:28:00 UTC | #453804

RMIV's Avatar Comment 9 by RMIV

I have little voice in the broader world, but it would be nice to see Hitchens, Dawkins, or Harris call out this new line the catholic church is using: well there is other molesters out there too!

This has to be one of the most horrifying PR campaigns. It's child rape and torture as Hitchen's reminds us.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:29:00 UTC | #453805

Parapraxis's Avatar Comment 10 by Parapraxis

Donohue thinks the church is a good model!?
This man is full-on delusional.

There is no "other side" to this story, there is no place for debate.
What is happening and has been within the catholic church is reprehensible.
These offenders are criminals and should be thrown into a cell, as should those who helped hide their actions and in some cases continue these acts.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:39:00 UTC | #453809

Reckless Monkey's Avatar Comment 11 by Reckless Monkey

So according to Donahue, the Church with a direct line to GOD against Donahue's better judgement (whatever pipeline he is claiming) took it's way of dealing with this issue from Liberals!

So now the Catholics are claiming not to get moral authority from the Bible or God but from Liberals. Did it not warrant the then Pope perhaps taking a few minutes out of his day to pray for inspiration?

If they are relying on liberals for their moral philosophy then exactly what are THEY FOR?

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:47:00 UTC | #453812

Factofevolution's Avatar Comment 12 by Factofevolution

It disgusts me when an interviewer doesn't seem to be listening to the answers to their questions and it seems to be the norm these last couple of years. This woman didn't even look as though she understood the answers being given.

So, if I understand Donohue, child molestation isn't a crime if it happened in the sixties. No, he's right - Hitch certainly did leave that part out.

Note how Donohue said it triumphantly as if he just exposed a loophole that would get his client off on a technicality. It happened in the sixties! It was reported in the seventies! The Cardinal didn't know about it until the 90's!

I don't care if he didn't know about it until yesterday! Children were molested, and Ratzinger's response was to protect the Church and not the victims. Period. It doesn't matter when it happened!

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:00:00 UTC | #453814

LWS's Avatar Comment 13 by LWS

We are watching Vatican-gate as it happens. I remember the end of the USSR and the Fall of the Berlin Wall. This nut, Roman Catholicism has taken longer to crack, mainly because up until this century the priests were immune from prosecution and whistle-blowers didn't stand a chance.

Thanks Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Hitchens, Greta Chistina and so many others for taking a clear stand in public and showing others that priests cannot cast a magic spell and curse them for eternity for pointing out the obvious.

The priests will be made to leave the Vatican.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:01:00 UTC | #453815

BigJohn's Avatar Comment 14 by BigJohn

I am not convinced that accusations based on 20 or 30 year old memories are valid. It is too bad, but memories from such a long time ago are no longer accurate. Ask any neurologist or psychologist about very old memories and see what they say about them. This is not to say that nothing happened, but, rather, I mean to say that there is no accurate record of what really did happen that long ago. I do not think that anyone should be convicted on such shaky evidence. Let us, instead, look for recent violations and prosecute them on the basis of the children who were violated recently.

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:45:00 UTC | #453827

Nekura's Avatar Comment 15 by Nekura

The sad part is that Bill Donohue is not associated directly with the church, but with the Catholic League, whose basic strategy is to oppose anything anti-xian. Nothing he says is official, and he has no more information then anyone else. Everything he says is baseless ranting.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:24:00 UTC | #453849

HappyPrimate's Avatar Comment 16 by HappyPrimate

I can't stomach watching that noise channel, but I am glad to see they had Hitchens on. I was happy to see him cut off the interviewer's spin at the end and make it clear what he just said. You cannot best or intimidate Hitchens.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:37:00 UTC | #453856

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 17 by Border Collie

It's a "debate"?!
That is an obscene way to look at this and an insult to the victims of the priests.
Yeah, Donohue, blame it on the people who expose and prosecute this ... and, of course, the victim's families. The creepiness is so deep, so entrenched ...
It doesn't matter when it happened. It doesn't matter if parents waited a decade or two before reporting it. Given his vehemence, Donohue sounds like a perpetrator himself.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:42:00 UTC | #453860

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 18 by Bonzai

Hey Billy, I am sure the boys were possessed by the devil to seduce the priests.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:47:00 UTC | #453862

Prieten's Avatar Comment 19 by Prieten

BigJohn,

The evidence in this matter doesn't rest on 20 or 30 year old memories. The New York Times article said:

"But Cardinal Bertone halted the canonical trial of Murphy] after Father Murphy personally wrote to Cardinal Ratzinger protesting that he should not be put on trial because he had already REPENTED and was in poor health and that the case was beyond the church’s own statute of limitations."

The child molester admitted he was GUILTY and argued the statute of limitations on his crime had run out.

What more evidence do you need???

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 01:36:00 UTC | #453882

Disbelief's Avatar Comment 20 by Disbelief

@Prieten

Big John wasn't saying that paedophiles e.g. Murphy weren't guilty, he was saying that securing a conviction based on old memories was a bad idea and that there are more recent things to focus on.
They are probably happening as we speak since this problem seems to never end.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 03:49:00 UTC | #453920

zengardener's Avatar Comment 21 by zengardener

Big John.
Memory is faulty, That is why the Pope should be arrested for obstruction of justice. Whether the priests were guilty or not, Ratzinger's actions stifled any possibility that the facts would be known.

Internal Church documents should provide all of the evidence one needs to convict many members of the clergy.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 03:59:00 UTC | #453921

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 22 by Rodger T

Have I got this right?
Donahues line was every other church molests kids ,so why are the catolicks being picked on?


edit, Also Fox viewers won`t understand a word the Hitch said cos` he does`nt shout and scream and stamp his feet like most of the guests and hosts on Fox "News".

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 05:08:00 UTC | #453929

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 23 by Jos Gibbons

Welcome to Fox's idea of a "fair and balanced debate", in which each side speaks only once, and therefore the one that goes first gets no chance at all to respond to arguments against it. And, of course, it is always the atheist rather than theist in a debate whom Fox makes suffer in ways like that.

Is Donohue always this loud?

Donohue also does not seem to get it. It's not that there were pederasts in the church that's the problem; that is inevitable given its size. The problem is that the church's policy has been every illegal cover-up method in the book. They have shown no attempt to do their part in helping along justice. Ratzinger was personally responsible for many of the secrecy policies. Nothing remotely like this is applicable in other places where child abuse has occurred. The numbers aren't the issue.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 06:35:00 UTC | #453940

MattHunX's Avatar Comment 24 by MattHunX

Why does Bill Donohue think they didn't find any dirt half a century ago?? Hm???

Oh, that's right, because the families were silenced by the church.

And I would love to hear him give one example of a secular organization where children were molested for centuries.

Douche-bag. *stab*

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 06:41:00 UTC | #453943

Oromasdes1978's Avatar Comment 25 by Oromasdes1978

Hitchens is right, these disgusting people only worry about what is happening to the church and NOT the victims!

You can see Donohue yelling away (Yes Jos, he is always this loud unfortunately, hurts the ears even at low volume!)about how hurt the poor Catholic Church is - not ONCE does he express any sympathy for the rape victims.

Worse still he uses the "but there are people out there doing it worse than we are" argument which makes me want to vomit. Doesn't make it any less disgusting that all those poor children were RAPED - good grief, the audacity of these people!

What the hell was that "only 6 reported cases" rubbish? Does he not know that the children were forced, by threat of unspeakable harm, never to reveal what had happened? Has this idiot not read any reports other than what he has been told to shout out on TV?

Shame on you Donahue, you horrible disgusting man.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:05:00 UTC | #453944

stephenray's Avatar Comment 26 by stephenray

The stupid thing is that the she doesn't call Donohue on his non-sequitur.

He asserts that the molestation incidents took place in the 60s but the police were not informed by the victims and families until the 90s.

But that's exactly the point - the delay was entirely because the Catholic church persuaded everyone (even intimidated them into signing some sort of waivers) to keep schtum about it 'for the good of the Holy Church'.

If victims such as these had realised that these were not isolated incidents that could be used by the enemies of the church if everyone didn't close ranks, but widespread throughout the globe and therefore systematic and symptomatic of the church's indifference to everything except its own preeminence, it wouldn't have taken 30 years before someone told a policeman.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:09:00 UTC | #453954

Duff's Avatar Comment 27 by Duff

Donohue is right about one thing. The parents of the children are to blame. They are guilty of the sin of stupidity for allowing their children anywhere near a catholic priest.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:27:00 UTC | #453967

black wolf's Avatar Comment 28 by black wolf

zengardener,

Internal Church documents should provide all of the evidence one needs to convict many members of the clergy.


I'm amused that people think the Church is stupid enough to not destroy the paper trail as soon as it becomes even remotely likely they'll be investigated. To the contrary, I'd bet they would come up with stacks of documents detailing hundreds of cases where children signed affirmations that nothing at all ever happened.

Child abuse experts work with numbers of 1:18 to 1:20, relating the known to the unknown and unrevealed cases. The guys who get caught are a tiny minority.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:55:00 UTC | #453971

Corey Hill's Avatar Comment 29 by Corey Hill

Thats a nice hat

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:35:00 UTC | #453989

MattHunX's Avatar Comment 30 by MattHunX

Comment #474352 by stephenray on March 30, 2010 at 9:09 am

She didn't call him out on it because she was a stupid as Donohue, you can just tell by the way she phrases her question that she's just a drone. And it FOX, isn't int.

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:23:00 UTC | #453998