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← BBC Newsnight - UK Homeopathy Update

BBC Newsnight - UK Homeopathy Update - Comments

beanson's Avatar Comment 1 by beanson

I'm plucking that out of thin air

  • multiple ironic lols
  • Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:17 UTC | #574585

    RichardofYork's Avatar Comment 2 by RichardofYork

    Thats it , Im going to the vet about this swine flu BTW Simon Singh is brilliant.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:34:48 UTC | #574592

    Sample's Avatar Comment 3 by Sample

    By BBC2 - YOUTUBE - TREVELOCITA Added: Friday, 07 January 2011 at 6:13 AM

    Via AtheistMediaBlog

    January 4, 2011 on BBC Two

    TAGGED: DISHONESTY, MEDICINE

    Strong wording there.

    Mike

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:35:59 UTC | #574594

    SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 4 by SaganTheCat

    Comment 1 by beanson :

    I'm plucking that out of thin air

  • multiple ironic lols
  • agreed, reminded me of this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVvcD4Czx4Y

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:41:46 UTC | #574598

    Neil5150's Avatar Comment 5 by Neil5150

    What do you call homeopathy remedies that are proven to work? Oh ya Medicine!

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:43:57 UTC | #574599

    Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 6 by Cook@Tahiti

    Look who else is on the board of the Society of Homeopaths... Richard Barr the man who underwrote Wakefield (linking autism with vaccines)...

    http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/about-the-society/Bod.aspx

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:45:23 UTC | #574601

    ridelo's Avatar Comment 7 by ridelo

    Does somebody know where I can find a transcript of this interview?

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:56:36 UTC | #574606

    ScottB's Avatar Comment 8 by ScottB

    It could be so much worse. I lived in the Czech Republic for over a year. There many real Doctors proscribe homepathic remedies all the time. It became a bit of a running joke that everytime I entered the Doc's office I said "Nejhomepatiky!" before she'd even asked me to sit down.

    (Sorry to any Czechs or Slovaks for my bad grammar/spelling/use of lexis. I believe it means No homeopathy, but if it's wrong it always got the message across.)

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:00:37 UTC | #574608

    Mbee's Avatar Comment 9 by Mbee

    I am amazed that this is sanctioned by the NHS. The whole concept of the more diluted something is, the better it is, is illogical. There must have been controlled scientific studies done by someone on the effectiveness of these remedies by now Surely this has been disproven.

    As far as I know this is not approved in the US as medical treatment. Anybody in the US know if this is covered by obama care?

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:02:28 UTC | #574610

    Mbee's Avatar Comment 10 by Mbee

    I just found this on the abc homeopathy web site: " the majority of studies have given a group of patients with the same disease, the same remedy. This is not how Homeopathy works. For the same disease, different patients may exhibit different symptoms; the negative findings are in large part polluted by this factor."

    So the treatment is based on the symptoms - not the disease - and that is why their 'medicine' doesn't always work effectively! Wow.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:06:27 UTC | #574612

    Reason Saves's Avatar Comment 11 by Reason Saves

    A brilliant article. Recently, the BBC seem to have excelled at broadcasting real science content.

    I think the funniest comments were "We haven't got time for a story" and "The BBC are the only people regulating homeopathy at the moment."

    Loved the inclusion of the legendary Mitchell and Webb clip (full version here).

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:09:33 UTC | #574613

    ridelo's Avatar Comment 12 by ridelo

    The demonstrator made a mistake: he did forget to shake the solution in the test tube. Obviously it couldn't be effective. ;-)

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:16:41 UTC | #574618

    Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 13 by Cook@Tahiti

    And it's not the poor in council estates that subscribe to homeopathy and psychoanalysis, it's the well-educated white middle classes that live in Hampstead London and upper east side Manhattan, etc.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:19:08 UTC | #574620

    hitchens_jnr's Avatar Comment 14 by hitchens_jnr

    The full Mitchell and Webb Homeopathic A and E sketch, as featured briefly in the report, can be found here.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:19:27 UTC | #574621

    hitchens_jnr's Avatar Comment 15 by hitchens_jnr

    Oops, I see Reason Saves has already put up the Mitchell and Webb link - sorry.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:20:08 UTC | #574623

    sunbeamforjeebus's Avatar Comment 16 by sunbeamforjeebus

    This beggars belief!!!To give a so-called drug/medicine to an animal it must be proven that it works, but not if it's given to a human.What the fuck is going on in the medical profession of this country!!!!!!! That fucking moron Charles Windsor should be shot full of malaria and typhoid and then told to go an drink his glass of water to cure himself! I am staggered at this report.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:52:19 UTC | #574639

    Dr. monster's Avatar Comment 17 by Dr. monster

    thats a great interview. almost makes me glad i pay a license fee

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:58:54 UTC | #574641

    alaskansee's Avatar Comment 18 by alaskansee

    @ Comment 5 by Neil5150

    Wow, wow, wow. There aren't ANY homeopathic remedies that are proven to work. The entire premise is entirely false.

    If you listen to the clip the nice man tells you why anything, paint chip or otherwise, cannot possible work. If you suck the little placebo under your tongue but there's only one drop in an ocean worth of it then you'll have to suck an awful lot of them to get even one molecule. (ref. Avogadro limit/number) If indeed you manage to suck an oceans worth of placebo and finally get your lucky molecule, what then does a molecule of nonsense do for your medical condition? The methodology and content are all bullshit.

    None of them work or we'd never hear the end of it.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:04:22 UTC | #574646

    ScottB's Avatar Comment 19 by ScottB

    Dara O'Briain's excellent take on homeopathy and medical quackery in general:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:05:10 UTC | #574647

    Ian's Avatar Comment 20 by Ian

    It isn't wrong that these substances are offered on the NHS, it's wrong that they are offered at all.

    The one thing that makes science based medicine superior is that no treatment can be offered unless the patient is expected to benefit from it on the basis of evidence or on the clear understanding that the treatment is experimental.

    Homeopathic preparations have been tested and shown to be no better than placebo; that is, no more effective than a substance which nobody believes is effective at all. It follows that the substance offered for medicinal purposes does not work. It isn't a medicine, even an alternative one, because it has no medicinal effect.

    It is therefore, unethical to intercede in people's wellbeing with something which is shown not to be effective, because you set up a clinic or sell a preparation with the promise to help. Homeopaths are misleading people by claiming to help people who are ill, when it is clear their preparations do not work.

    It should be illegal to even imply a treatment has a medicinal effect without it being demonstrated effective first.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:11:10 UTC | #574648

    Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 21 by Bernard Hurley

    What was the name of that homeopathy lady, Zofia Dimwit?

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:32:24 UTC | #574661

    Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 22 by Richard Dawkins

    Kirsty Walk's heart is clearly in the right place. Such a shame it is so hard to understand a word she says. Somebody needs to tell her, there are these weird things called CONSONANTS.

    It is not just that there is no evidence to support homeopathy, as many people say on this film. It is close to being the case that there never COULD be any such evidence, in principle. This is because, in any well-controlled double blind experiment to test homeopathy, there would be no difference between the experimental dose and the control dose. There is one possible loophole through which homeopathy could wriggle. The molecules of water could retain a 'memory' of the active ingredient that was once there. But if this were the case, and a homeopath could demonstrate it, they would have discovered a whole new force of physics, and would win the Nobel Prize for Physics as well as that for Medicine. Sadly, they show no sign of even trying for this, let alone succeeding.

    Richard

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:57:51 UTC | #574719

    Southpaw's Avatar Comment 23 by Southpaw

    So the government's 'chief scientist' states that homeopathy is nonsense, yet that same government is happy to waste money by supplying it via the NHS. Meanwhile nurses, police officers, and other valuable public-sector workers are getting the boot because of budget cuts.

    Sigh.

    Is it not patently obvious to any half-intelligent person that if water has a memory, then it will have remembered all the faeces, dead bodies and other generally nasty substances it has come into contact with over the past 4 billion years, as well as the tincture of arnica you've put in it to magically cure your sore throat?

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:16:17 UTC | #574730

    lackofgravitas's Avatar Comment 24 by lackofgravitas

    'First; do no harm' Any doctor who recommends homeopathic remedies should be struck off. I went to visit a friends father in hospital recently and was disgusted to find leaflets in the cafeteria offering homeopathy, reiki and other such nonsense. This hospital was primarily a geriatric facility.

    I'd go as far as to say that Prince Wingnut has actually given these dangerous charlatans a little credibility by endorsing them.

    When I spoke to Ben Goldacre about this a while ago, he said that if the public are stupid enough to believe it, they deserve to be fleeced by the charlatans (or words to that effect; apologies to Ben if I'm wrong there) but my opinion is that it becomes a public health issue if these non-remedies are offered for potentially fatal diseases.

    Good to see Simon Singh, he's been through a lot, kept his cool and still walks the walk.

    LoG

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:26:19 UTC | #574731

    Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 25 by Steve Zara

    So the government's 'chief scientist' states that homeopathy is nonsense

    I happen to know the chief scientist reasonably well. He's a good fellow. There is no need to put ironic quotes around his title. Just because you are in that role does not mean you get to dictate government policy.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:27:01 UTC | #574732

    Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 26 by Cook@Tahiti

    When you argue with someone who believes in it, you get anecdotes...

    "My friend/relative/spouse was really ill/sick/diseased and the doctors couldn't do anything, but then we found a really helpful homoeopath who prescribed some x/y/z solution, and they got instantly better and haven't seen sick since"

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:27:42 UTC | #574734

    PhilipK's Avatar Comment 27 by PhilipK

    Why doesn't it surprise me that the chairwoman of the society of homeopaths looks like a fortune teller found at your local circus?

    In all seriousness though, it's pathetic how she/they deny all responsibility when there is a serious case of people's health and lives at risk. The interviewer did a good job at making sure she couldn't just talk her way out of it with off topic responses and feigned commitments. I assume it's all about the money, seems quite constant amongst all superstitious nonsense.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:58:26 UTC | #574754

    Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 28 by Cook@Tahiti

    Comment 27 by PhilipK :

    Why doesn't it surprise me that the chairwoman of the society of homeopaths looks like a fortune teller found at your local circus?

    That's the standard issue uniform of Hampstead middle-class bohemians

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 20:01:08 UTC | #574757

    thereligionisbad's Avatar Comment 29 by thereligionisbad

    Homeopathic practitioners are always dishonest. Here is a documented proof about how they backed out from proper trials of their so called "medicine" akka pure water(even pure water is not available in India so they are selling contaminated water obtained from tube wells). http://www.scientificindians.com/health/what-ails-you/332-truth-about-homeopathy-decision-is-yours

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 20:04:06 UTC | #574759

    huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 30 by huzonfurst

    GAAHH! This kind of CRAP makes me want to run headfirst into the nearest brick wall! Why does the government allow this, and especially why does it allow parents to give it to their children - because they have a right to a 'choice'?! It's no better than faith-killing.

    Without trying to be ironic, homeopathy makes me SICK! At least the UK is ahead of the US in that it protects animals from this garbage, but here people are allowed to mistreat pets with it too. When I protest to the management of these stores, all they say is that they have to "give people what they want." It's absolutely disgusting.

    Fri, 07 Jan 2011 21:07:14 UTC | #574788