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Muslim Sharia Law In Australia - Comments

Ani Sharmin's Avatar Comment 1 by Ani Sharmin

This is so sad and horrible. What's so disturbing is that there are people who will voluntarily go along with this, preferring to go the religious leaders for a decision, rather than using ideas of justice and equality in making decision. Then, there will be those who are forced against their will by family, community, etc.

On a related note, why are the discussion about religious courts, etc. by those who defend them framed in a way suggesting that it would be okay if it only affected Muslims, and not others? The assumption seems to be that if you happened to have been born in a non-Muslim family, then you deserve equal rights, but if you happen to have been born in a Muslim family, then people should look the other way while you're being mistreated.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:25:40 UTC | #855848

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 2 by God fearing Atheist

About two years ago there was a discussion here about Sharia courts in the UK, and the official info. on the web (as I remember it) was that they were arbitration services which had to operate under UK law, and have a solicitor on the panel (as well as an Inman). There was great suspicion of a wedge strategy then, and now those suspicions have reached the UK legislature.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:37:49 UTC | #855850

green and dying's Avatar Comment 3 by green and dying

Those clips of the British sharia court are from here if anyone's interested.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:52:57 UTC | #855855

huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 4 by huzonfurst

There was no mention of the other consequences of sharia, such as the death penaly for apostasy and the horribly cruel way animals are slaughtered by halal (binding their legs and sawing through their necks while they are fully conscious). Animals have no rights under this travesty of a religion!

The despicable treatment of women goes without saying, but there is one point where I differ with the western tradition, and that is the issue of polygamy and polyandry. Why can't men have more than one wife if all parties freely agree to this, and for that matter why can't women have more than one husband, or have families with multiple wives and husbands all at once?

Admittedly things get pretty complicated as the number of partners adds up, but what business is it of the government how many lovers someone might have beyond inheriting this from the jewish tradition? There need to be laws concerning things like inheritance and so forth, but after that stay the hell out of our bedrooms!

I myself have been in both situations, one man with two women and one of two men with one woman, not as anything official or having to hide from the law and certainly not with the intention of having children, because that would require some kind of binding arrangements. Nuclear families need only start with helium, if you know what I mean.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 16:39:59 UTC | #855863

gordon's Avatar Comment 5 by gordon

As a sheep, I'd vote against this! As a chicken I'd be afraid! As a woman I'd be told what I feel. As a man, I'd be ashamed

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 16:51:44 UTC | #855864

Stublore's Avatar Comment 6 by Stublore

Comment 2 by God fearing Atheist :

About two years ago there was a discussion here about Sharia courts in the UK, and the official info. on the web (as I remember it) was that they were arbitration services which had to operate under UK law, and have a solicitor on the panel (as well as an Inman). There was great suspicion of a wedge strategy then, and now those suspicions have reached the UK legislature.

Are you sure about having to solicitor on the panel? Is there any record of what actually happens in these places, what decisions are reached etc? Does a Beh Din have to have a solicitor in the mix too?

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:06:29 UTC | #855874

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 7 by Vicktor

What the hell are so many Muslims doing in Australia?

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:07:53 UTC | #855875

gordon's Avatar Comment 8 by gordon

Vicktor

Escaping from their own countries!

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:41:20 UTC | #855883

inquisador's Avatar Comment 9 by inquisador

comment 8 by gordon,

Escaping from their own countries!

Exactly right.

And since many are escaping therefrom because of the hellishness of those countries, resulting from sharia, not only are we selling out our own culture and legal system but we are also robbing those escapees of the succour afforded them by our non-sharia ways if we allow this menace to infiltrate and metastasize in the west.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:55:32 UTC | #855888

Tryphon Tournesol's Avatar Comment 10 by Tryphon Tournesol

I know exactly what you mean, I 'm in a steady relationship with two ladies (one on one on one, so to say) and we live in the so called enlightened Netherlands, the things one bumps into...from shared ownership of our house to the sad remarks by the first one that has an opinion...just another memeplex probably..

And in the meantime all of us are supposed to respect the ones that do harm..

Comment 4 by huzonfurst :

There was no mention of the other consequences of sharia, such as the death penaly for apostasy and the horribly cruel way animals are slaughtered by halal (binding their legs and sawing through their necks while they are fully conscious). Animals have no rights under this travesty of a religion!

The despicable treatment of women goes without saying, but there is one point where I differ with the western tradition, and that is the issue of polygamy and polyandry. Why can't men have more than one wife if all parties freely agree to this, and for that matter why can't women have more than one husband, or have families with multiple wives and husbands all at once?

Admittedly things get pretty complicated as the number of partners adds up, but what business is it of the government how many lovers someone might have beyond inheriting this from the jewish tradition? There need to be laws concerning things like inheritance and so forth, but after that stay the hell out of our bedrooms!

I myself have been in both situations, one man with two women and one of two men with one woman, not as anything official or having to hide from the law and certainly not with the intention of having children, because that would require some kind of binding arrangements. Nuclear families need only start with helium, if you know what I mean.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:53:51 UTC | #855925

debonnesnouvelles's Avatar Comment 11 by debonnesnouvelles

Comment 7 by Vicktor :

What the hell are so many Muslims doing in Australia?

Comment 8 by gordon :

Vicktor

Escaping from their own countries!

possible. or maybe "outbreeding" everybody else?

here's my berlin anecdote from 10 years ago. for what it's worth:

I was on the berlin tube with a friend of mine who speaks arabic. She translated for me a conversation that 2 veiled women, surrounded by babies and toddlers, were having right in front of us. They were discussing how stupid the native Germans were for not reproducing enough, and that their goal in life was to have so many children that they would outbreed the nonmuslim population here in 1 to 2 generations. This would be their way of conquering the decadent west. We were completely baffled that these women were first of all talking in such a hostile way about everybody but themselves and that they were also absolutely unaware of, or did not care about the fact that someone who was not covered from head to toe would be able to understand everything they said.

ten years on... statistics, anyone?

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:13:03 UTC | #855928

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 12 by Neodarwinian

To have Sharia Law over a segment of the population is to commit treason against the the laws of the state and needs to be crushed wherever found. I do not see a controversy here, but I do see PC equivocation that manufactures controversy and promotes this extra judicial " law. "

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:14:00 UTC | #855929

William33's Avatar Comment 13 by William33

The main problem that people forget is that sharia law is suppose to be gods law. There is no such thing as partial sharia law, where sharia is only involved depending on the context. If we continue to turn a blind eye to certain aspects now then it may be far more difficult to say no further down the line.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:14:32 UTC | #855930

bendigeidfran's Avatar Comment 14 by bendigeidfran

Sharia law in the UK, sharia law in Australia, sharia law in my toilet. Like god I've never seen it. Can we chop off Aussie hands or what? Would what not is happening be bad? Could received beliefs be bollocks? It's all too hard.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:42:24 UTC | #855934

burakkocamis's Avatar Comment 15 by burakkocamis

Extremist Muslims are dangerous for the psychologic health of whole Islamic world.Though whole is not like them,they are effecting and it's worrisome as much as Christian extremists.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:03:07 UTC | #855939

isac's Avatar Comment 16 by isac

The time is long overdue to ask an oath of allegiance to the written laws of the state from every citizen. Those choosing to conduct their (and everybody else’s) life according to other laws, especially those pertaining to supremacist homophobic, sexist 7-century codes need to have their citizenship immediately revoked with all its consequences. Not doing this is, and probably will eventually be, the suicide of our open societies, created with such heavy sacrifices by the previous generations, surrendering them to the darkest form of slavery and contempt for human spirit: islam.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:06:35 UTC | #855941

UGene's Avatar Comment 17 by UGene

Some Muslims (most maybe?) do not recognize the fact that coming to the West and acting the same way they did in their own countries will actually help turn it into the very hellholes they just escaped from. Even worse, the threshold for a violent backlash from angry natives has already been reached. Nowadays, not only do we have to fear Muslim terror attacks, but anti-immigration terror attacks as well, from the likes of people who think like Anders Behring Breivik.

We need to find peaceful solutions before we slip further down the slope of violence.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:40:04 UTC | #855950

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 18 by God fearing Atheist

Comment 6 by Stublore :

Are you sure about having to solicitor on the panel?

I read what I think was an official web site on the set up of these arbitration services, and I think I remember that the full arbitration service "court" had to have a qualified solicitor on the panel, who was supposed to make sure the decision was within UK law. But it was 2 years ago.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:06:58 UTC | #855966

znack's Avatar Comment 19 by znack

Looks like another well-researched, non-biased YouTube from our friendly neighborhood coward.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:09:27 UTC | #855967

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 20 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:37:48 UTC | #855977

green and dying's Avatar Comment 21 by green and dying

Comment 11 by debonnesnouvelles :

possible. or maybe "outbreeding" everybody else?

here's my berlin anecdote from 10 years ago. for what it's worth:

I was on the berlin tube with a friend of mine who speaks arabic. She translated for me a conversation that 2 veiled women, surrounded by babies and toddlers, were having right in front of us. They were discussing how stupid the native Germans were for not reproducing enough, and that their goal in life was to have so many children that they would outbreed the nonmuslim population here in 1 to 2 generations. This would be their way of conquering the decadent west. We were completely baffled that these women were first of all talking in such a hostile way about everybody but themselves and that they were also absolutely unaware of, or did not care about the fact that someone who was not covered from head to toe would be able to understand everything they said.

ten years on... statistics, anyone?

Was she joking? Even if she wasn't, it's not exactly a huge threat, is it? The percentage of the population that is Muslim is pretty low in non-Muslim European countries. And the main problem with this plan is that Islam is not a genetic trait. Her descendants won't all be Muslims and the Muslim ones won't all marry other Muslims. The more generations there are the less Islam will be a problem. Growing up in Europe with parents and grandparents who grew up in Europe will be completely different from being an immigrant, or growing up with immigrant parents, from a Muslim-majority country.

Muslims immigrating and "breeding" is not a problem but things like Islamic faith schools and sharia courts in Western countries are, because they are what could perpetuate Islamic beliefs and morality down the generations.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:38:06 UTC | #855978

Odalrich's Avatar Comment 22 by Odalrich

I am completely stunned when I see democratic societies like Australia and the UK handing over sovereignty and human rights of people to religious fanatics. Something should be done to stop such barbarity for once and for all.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:58:09 UTC | #855986

Dr Fomancho's Avatar Comment 23 by Dr Fomancho

I think videos and 'news items' like this have a tendency to overly dramatize a situation that doesn't even exist. I think they actually create a situation by going to specific locations, by interviewing a handful of people that validate their views and confirm their story, and then finally by adding dramatizing music and camera angles. Good for ratings only. By the way, what's a video like this doing on a scientific website like this? Why not add Bill O Reilly while we are at it?

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:17:30 UTC | #855991

Stevezar's Avatar Comment 24 by Stevezar

Comment 21 by green and dying :

Was she joking? Even if she wasn't, it's not exactly a huge threat, is it? The percentage of the population that is Muslim is pretty low in non-Muslim European countries. And the main problem with this plan is that Islam is not a genetic trait. Her descendants won't all be Muslims and the Muslim ones won't all marry other Muslims.

What percentage of children born to muslim parents wind up being muslim, despite the fact that it is not genetic?

The more generations there are the less Islam will be a problem.

Yes, for good examples of this, see all the countries in the middle east.

Oh, wait...

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:19:27 UTC | #855993

green and dying's Avatar Comment 25 by green and dying

Comment 24 by Stevezar :

What percentage of children born to muslim parents wind up being muslim, despite the fact that it is not genetic?

I don't know. The relevant statistic would be what percentage of the grandchildren, great grandchildren etc. of Muslim immigrants to the West, who themselves live in the West, end up being Muslim. The descendants of the woman in the anecdote will probably fall into that category.

Yes, for good examples of this, see all the countries in the middle east.

Oh, wait...

I was talking about in Western countries.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:31:31 UTC | #856002

dazzjazz's Avatar Comment 26 by dazzjazz

That program is a tabloid style 'current affairs' program with a reputation for muck raking. I don't take it too seriously, or watch it for that matter.

Last week we had a incidence of some Muslim men dishing out a lashing to a recent convert who had drunk alcohol - the regular courts are dealing with them.

I must say, racist or not, that I don't want the medieval BS that is sharia in Australia. Those Muslims who want it should move to Saudi.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:43:48 UTC | #856005

huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 27 by huzonfurst

To those who think this isn't a real threat: 1) Population can increase exponentially, so if the first generation doubles its numbers, and the next doubles theirs we have four times the number in 40 years. In another 20 years this doubles to 8 times, then 16 times. If instead they triple their numbers in one generation we get 3, 9, 27, and 81 times; if the numbers are quadrupled it's 4, 16, 64 and 128 times!

Trying to ignore this possibility is traitorous, slow suicide, and you need to wake up soon.

Also, how is reporting the fact that sharia is in effect now "over-dramatizing" the situation?? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, folks, women and animals are suffering now because of this -- right, effing now!!

It is not a situation like your teeth, where if you ignore them they will go away, you know.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:46:17 UTC | #856007

Dr Fomancho's Avatar Comment 28 by Dr Fomancho

Also, how is reporting the fact that sharia is in effect now "over-dramatizing" the situation??

Adding sensational music and camera angles is what could be called over-dramatizing. This is how they make movies in Hollywood, but this is not how facts are reported. We live in a world where we don't hear nature playing music while go about our lives. Also, we see people and objects from normal viewing angles, because we don't normally pan our heads and zoom in and out when we see a person. This is not reporting facts. This is earning ratings, making money, and spreading paranoia and fear.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:53:07 UTC | #856011

green and dying's Avatar Comment 29 by green and dying

Comment 27 by huzonfurst :

To those who think this isn't a real threat: 1) Population can increase exponentially, so if the first generation doubles its numbers, and the next doubles theirs we have four times the number in 40 years. In another 20 years this doubles to 8 times, then 16 times. If instead they triple their numbers in one generation we get 3, 9, 27, and 81 times; if the numbers are quadrupled it's 4, 16, 64 and 128 times!

The problems I have with this are:

  1. Non-Muslims also have children
  2. Non-Muslims also immigrate to Western countries
  3. We don't really know how likely the great great grandchildren of Muslim immigrants to the West are to be Muslim at all let alone the kind who really practise it.

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:58:39 UTC | #856013

znack's Avatar Comment 30 by znack

LOL at referencing anything with Today/Tonight. Fucking awful show

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:58:50 UTC | #856015