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In superstition we trust - Comments

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 1 by Dhamma

It's his race of course, but as an atheist 'debater' I think he's taken the wrong route focusing too much on politics not directly linked to atheism. Alienating yourself from a large group of atheists will end your power altogether.

Personally I want religion out before politics can be taken seriously. If you're a socialist or conservative is less important, as they are at least real systems, regardless of how well they work.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 02:28:18 UTC | #869542

Red Foot Okie's Avatar Comment 2 by Red Foot Okie

Yo, Pat! We worked hard for that 7% drop.

Get off our backs and take care of your own permement underclass before they engulf your capital in riots and flames again.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 02:30:19 UTC | #869544

QuestioningKat's Avatar Comment 3 by QuestioningKat

I'm starting to think these statistics are wrong. I know more people who do not go to church than people who go to church. Yes I live in the North, but I wonder where all these statistics come from. I was never asked my religious views nor asked any such questions for the census. I'm sure I was counted as a Christian. I understand that some info comes from church memberships (?) many people may belong to a church but attend on an irregular basis.

Here's my (baloney) statistics:

25% religious (7% highly religious)

60% Deists but don't know it/non-church goers.

15% agnostic or atheist

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 02:31:15 UTC | #869545

mjs31's Avatar Comment 4 by mjs31

Comment 3 by QuestioningKat

Yes I live in the North, but I wonder where all these statistics come from.

I don't either, but either way I think the number is probably closer to 12%, but then again my source is just a survey referenced by census.gov, taken in 2008 and it only uses the continental United States as a sample, though it is a fairly large sample. I think if you put Hawaii and Alaska in the mix as well the numbers might even show a higher percentage.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 02:58:10 UTC | #869548

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 5 by Alternative Carpark

QuestioningKat, I think your stats are probably much closer to the truth.

As for Pat's criticism on big government, according to my uncle who has lived in Denmark for nigh on 50 years, Danes pay close to 45% tax (they are well paid to compensate for this) and in return receive excellent public services: medical, education, etc. And in 'Happiness' surveys, Danes rank usually at or around the No.1. Contrast that with the dysfunctional state of affairs in the US. Which would you prefer?

I suppose the ideal situation is somewhere in between.

I wonder if Mr. Condell thinks that the NHS should be scrapped?

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 03:04:50 UTC | #869550

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 6 by aquilacane

Not sure if Vote Atheist is really a solution. I think your platform needs a bit more meat. You don't want left, you don't want right... beyond an atheist president, tell me what you want? I doubt simply removing God Bless America from the end of speeches will do it.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 03:24:45 UTC | #869553

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 7 by Neodarwinian

One point. Please do not let the coming Presidential campaign devolve into the lasts campaigns piety race!!

God is well described again as the psychopath he is. And no matter the statistics as long as they are moving, moving in the right direction.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 03:43:46 UTC | #869555

kidchicago's Avatar Comment 8 by kidchicago

Pat, with all due respect, you are out of your depth in your portrayal of the "Obama vs. Perry" possible race. There is just about always a choice between the better of two evils from each voter's, individual perspectives. Your typecasting of our "Socialist President" is beginning to sound much too similar to the standard tommyrot of the right wing, wing nuts in the U.S. I can't believe you'd want to share a "whining towel" on this with the likes of Michelle Bachman.

Any astute political observer realizes that good government in today's world requires a delicate balancing between business interests, which are increasingly global, and the interests of its nation's citizenry. This President has had to make some of the toughest,most reactive decisions of any President since perhaps Kennedy during the Cuban Missle Crisis.

And, unlike Kennedy, he's done it without respite from the day he took office, due to economic and military circumstances handed to him by our last "Godfearing Texan Commander-in Chief"

I, for one, don't want another.

Cut Obama some slack!!!!!!!!!!!! His administration's decisions are far from perfect, but a Rick Perry alternative????

C'mon , Pat, you know better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:30:23 UTC | #869557

Tridhos's Avatar Comment 9 by Tridhos

I think it is worrying that Pat advocates support for the UKIP with people such as Lord Monckton as their deputy leader.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:13:49 UTC | #869560

Dirty Kuffar's Avatar Comment 10 by Dirty Kuffar

Good stuff again from Pat, as regards Tridhos' comment about UKIP, I think he supports them for their strong yet non-racist stance against Islam rather than any individual within them.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:22:11 UTC | #869561

Adam Felton's Avatar Comment 11 by Adam Felton

Actually, I don't think he does know better.

I believe he thinks a countries problems will be solved by libertarianism, hence his comments against big government and high taxes.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:23:01 UTC | #869562

mmurray's Avatar Comment 12 by mmurray

Comment 9 by Tridhos :

I think it is worrying that Pat advocates support for the UKIP with people such as Lord Monckton as their deputy leader.

That would be the Lord Monckton the non-member of the House of Lords ?

Michael

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:28:09 UTC | #869565

SoHelpMeReason's Avatar Comment 13 by SoHelpMeReason

Comment 3 by QuestioningKat :

I'm starting to think these statistics are wrong. I know more people who do not go to church than people who go to church. Yes I live in the North, but I wonder where all these statistics come from. I was never asked my religious views nor asked any such questions for the census. I'm sure I was counted as a Christian. I understand that some info comes from church memberships (?) many people may belong to a church but attend on an irregular basis.

Here's my (baloney) statistics:

25% religious (7% highly religious)

60% Deists but don't know it/non-church goers.

15% agnostic or atheist

Friend, you live in a box? I've resided in America for 14 years and my shock is perennially renewed at the fact that I live in the only first world country where 16-year-olds think church is "cool", Catholicism is "trendy" (DON'T EVEN ASK!), and on any given day there's a good chance at least one of them will come up to me and go, "Woo! I love Jesus! Yeah!" and wave a 'peace sign' in my face.

Oh and getting invited into prayer circles is the worst. I squirm uncomfortably.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:37:36 UTC | #869569

rjohn19's Avatar Comment 14 by rjohn19

A few things here...

1) I do not believe for an instant that Obama is a theist. He just plays one on TV. It's called career suicide avoidance in psychological parlance.

2) Not all aspects of socialism are evil and none of its intent is. Even in the far distant past (two or three years ago) when America was the richest nation on the planet, we sucked fetid swamp water when it came to things like life expectancy and infant mortality compared with the rest of the "civilized" world. Pat Condell is a closet Republican and just can't stand that religion has co-opted the party. The problem is not with helping the poor survive, it's with what the "Republicans" of the world allow the medical industry to charge for their services. That's where we go bankrupt.

3) Yes, the US was founded by enlightened men who understood that separation of church and state was a jam-up idea and is now the envy of today's European braintrust. But it was done as much to protect religions as it was to protect us from religions. In a very real sense it has given the fringe toon religions a license to feed upon the ignorant and might be no better than your model in the end. If you look at the percentages of belief, I'm pretty sure it's not better.

4) Maybe one day this week, I'll figure a way to create an avatar. I'm pretty certain the silhouette beside my log-name is not me. Quite positive my ears stick out a bit more.

5) Thanks as usual for allowing me to drag discussions down to my level.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:38:20 UTC | #869570

SoHelpMeReason's Avatar Comment 15 by SoHelpMeReason

Also, note to Pat: 60% of the government's budget goes to financing foreign wars in America. Additionally, the lower 85% of Americans own only 7% of national wealth. You've been burned severely, I know, by the clear bastards that are overrunning European politics, but America does need to lean more toward socialism. Lean, I stress, not become socialist. So that big corporation CEOs aren't essentially the modern equivalent of feudal lords from the middle ages.

Capitalistic purity is inhumane, therein lies the problem.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:56:15 UTC | #869574

celiamn's Avatar Comment 16 by celiamn

Jesus won the republican ticket again. Haha. Oh, I'm stealing that.

But seriously, it hasn't been bad. Perry is the only one seriously Jesusing it up right now. I guess maybe Cain does it a little too, but no one takes him seriously. Jon Huntsman actually berated Republicans by saying that the party couldn't be taken seriously if it ran from science regarding recent remarks by Perry on global warming and evolution. I like that guy.

And those statistic are for sure wrong. I got to a liberal school, but I'm still in Indiana. Hi from the seat of the KKK and the fringe of the bible belt. I would say as much as 1/2 my school is atheist, or at least not religious. Fox News puts us at like 2%, some atheists go as high as 20%. I myself, after prettyyy extensive research, say 12-16%, though these things are hard to gauge, what with agnostics, "non-practicing" religious people, closet nonbelievers, etc. 7% is very harsh, and I would say that's false and comes from a biased source.

Plus he sounds like Bill O'Reilly on Obama. Perry balanced the budget by slashing social programs, he considers social security a Ponsi i scheme. He made Texas an even worse place to live. They're number 1 for no health insurance and similar problems, imagine that.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:08:26 UTC | #869577

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 17 by Premiseless

Comment 14 by rjohn19 :

A few things here...

1) I do not believe for an instant that Obama is a theist. He just plays one on TV. It's called career suicide avoidance in psychological parlance.

Isn't it ironic how the strawman childhood jibe of, "Your religion knows what's best for you." mutates into leadership contests that need to please scarecrows just to get in office. This is the poison religion manufactures generation after generation.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:26:30 UTC | #869582

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 18 by Richard Dawkins

May I remind our readers that posting something on this site does not constitute endorsement. I, for one, dissociate myself totally from Pat's remarks about Obama and social democracy, while admiring everything he says about religion as much as I usually do. Incidentally, I doubt that anyone of Mr Obama's style of intelligence and education is really a theist. In any case, if I were American, I would have no hesitation in voting for Obama next November, and would campaign for him with enthusiasm.

Richard

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:34:53 UTC | #869584

scattering-like-light's Avatar Comment 19 by scattering-like-light

PC used to be amusing and entertaining, rather than how I find him now, which is angry, tense-making, overly political and needlessly confrontational. Though he remains one of the few people prepared to call Islam on what it actually is.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:38:12 UTC | #869585

Drosera's Avatar Comment 20 by Drosera

With friends like Pat Condell you don't need enemies.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:51:07 UTC | #869586

alf1200's Avatar Comment 21 by alf1200

Thanks so much Richard. I believe that the excesses of the GOP and Corporations in this country are driving us into socialism.

If this continues they (GOP) will be to blame. Most Americans don't want to admit that we are already a mix of socialism and capitalism.

Pat Condell doesn't see this. There is no defining line between the two.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:16:24 UTC | #869588

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 22 by Atheist Mike

Lots of beliefs and wishful thinking around here. Whatever happened to political science? How can one actually believe that unhampered socialism is the answer when it's created more than its fair share of economical problems (and problems of other kinds) for the Western world? Unregulated state benefits, unprofitable immigration, anaemic system of production, clumsy trading, multiculturalism. It's quite obvious that if the US and Europe continue on that path we're going to end up with something nobody ever wanted. We're basically throwing our money out of the windows to achieve something which is unachievable.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:18:11 UTC | #869589

alf1200's Avatar Comment 23 by alf1200

"Unregulated state benefits, unprofitable immigration, anaemic system of production, clumsy trading, multiculturalism."

Gee Mike, If I didn't know any better, I would say you are a racist. Who among us is not a product of immigration? And multiculturalism? This was never a single culture society. Next you will say you want the Native Indians to go back where they came from.

Do you realize we practice socialism in our police, fire, and school systems?

Carefull, your boat is sinking

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:34:21 UTC | #869594

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 24 by Atheist Mike

@comment 23

Come on Alf not the racist card. It's this kind of thinking that got us into hot water in the first place and which keeps us in.

Socialism is great, yes. But like all things it's only good in moderation. It must have been the best idea ever back when people were poor and oppressed (1890s-1970s) but now where do we draw the line? I'm not racist because I talk against immigration, in Germany alone muslim immigrants cost more to the state than they contribute. Why is that? Lack of integration and irresponsible distribution of unemployment benefits by the government. That is a fact, you may call me racist if you want but that won't solve or do anything except for making you feel self-righteous. What could the German government do about it? Cut unnecessary or detrimental social policies. Multiculturalism has already been denounced by three major european nations, as you pointed out cultures merge naturally so there's no point in having a policy which impeaches a society to get past the impotent ones and move on. In Britain cuts are being made to education instead of these products of excessive socialism. I'm all for liberties but we should be much more reasonable.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:23:57 UTC | #869602

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 25 by Stevehill

Condell is a passionate, if somewhat in-your-face, atheist.

But I fear he's also becoming a useful idiot: useful to opponents of reason.

I don't really feel he speaks for me on anything much. He's just embarrassing.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:30:20 UTC | #869606

Daz365's Avatar Comment 26 by Daz365

Actually I think linking to every video this bigot releases does look like an endorsement, even if it's unintentional. Why not link to some news items by some other right wing bigots the BNP or the EDL, they're always banging on about Islam so it should qualify.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:39:24 UTC | #869611

ev-love's Avatar Comment 27 by ev-love

Once I looked forward to more from Pat Condell.

Now I find my admiration for him is greatly exceeded by his own.

ev-love

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:39:48 UTC | #869612

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 28 by Richard Dawkins

Comment 26 by Daz365 :

Actually I think linking to every video this bigot releases does look like an endorsement, even if it's unintentional. Why not link to some news items by some other right wing bigots the BNP or the EDL, they're always banging on about Islam so it should qualify.

I support Pat's stance on Islam. It is NOT based on racism like that of the BNP, and he is properly scathing about so-called 'Islamophobia'.

I suppose it is not all that surprising that one can passionately agree with some of the things an individual says and disagree equally passionately with others. Think of Bill Maher on medicine or Christopher Hitchens on Iraq. I find it surprising that it doesn't happen more often. Opinions don't always cluster together neatly, although it is remarkable how often they do, which is why the Left/Right dimension so often works as a way to sum up a person's political opinions on a wide range of issues.

Richard

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:02:05 UTC | #869618

njwong's Avatar Comment 29 by njwong

Speaking of Bill Maher, Bill was just on Jay Leno's show, and he made a very interesting observation about Obama and the Republican party.

Bill says that the reason Obama can't get the Republicans to agree on any policy, even when the policies had originated from the Republicans, is that basically, the Republicans hate Obama. Obama is the wrong man, the wrong party, the wrong colour. As Bill puts it: “It’s not the entree they don’t like, it’s the waiter.”

Bill Maher is always a joy to listen to:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-tells-jay-leno-he-is-tired-of-obama-going-half-in-on-republican-crappy-ideas/

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:17:39 UTC | #869623

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 30 by AtheistEgbert

Pat is not an idiot, nor a bigot, but a courageous funny man with a slightly small nose!

Always someone who has witty, interesting and important things to say.

Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:38:32 UTC | #869629