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← A New Way of Thinking -- Faircloth Interview

A New Way of Thinking -- Faircloth Interview - Comments

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 1 by Schrodinger's Cat

Sean Faircloth is an excellent and very erudite speaker, and a pleasure to listen to. His speaking flows in a very nice way. I'm firmly of the opinion that it's not just the content but the style of presentation that also matters a great deal, and Sean Faircloth gets it just right.

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:05:27 UTC | #924903

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 2 by AtheistEgbert

Sean Faircloth is saying all the right things, and communicating in all the right way to reach the mainstream political media in America. However, the presentation style of politics in Britain and Europe is going to be a bit different--more dry and less emotionally based.

We do need to become more politically sophisticated, and I am happy to support Faircloth's strategy in taking the sceptical community into the direction of politics. This is definitely the right direction.

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:53:01 UTC | #924913

KRKBAB's Avatar Comment 3 by KRKBAB

Comment 2 by AtheistEgbert - "You people (Brits) are dry like toast"- says Gus from the movie "My big fat Greek wedding". Of course Gus was comparing reserved Protestants to his people- giant loud Catholic families.

almost the same thing

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:42:13 UTC | #924931

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 4 by drumdaddy

I bought the book for the iPad. Now is our time.

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:53:12 UTC | #924936

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 5 by Peter Grant

http://c3415323.r23.cf0.rackcdn.com/120306-POI_2012_03_05_Sean_Faircloth.mp3 Sean Faircloth on POI

Wish there was some way to get every single American to read his book, or at the very least have it read to them...

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:32:16 UTC | #924974

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 6 by Premiseless

Check out Israel's holy land or Mecca etc. Each religious mind-form (evolved from their memes) seeks not simply to find a new territory and a new mind-form as a fresh philosophy, but to do so in order to preserve its memeology. The most adaptive mind-forms seem to have a fixed place and time from which they broke off from whatever others surrounded them. This branched location then seems to send out shoots through time, cultures and continents which ultimately draw power back to their origins. Memeology of religion. The wall of separation is held together by the very things it claimed to be guarding against. This is how religion sends out its shoots into all cultures, anywhere. It is a creeping, poison ivy.

I was watching various sports recently and it came across to me how the religious meme even spouts forth when success is won and under the guise of an ultimate representative of fairness - symbolism - look up to a myth. This is an interesting example of why alternatives do not fare so well. Where is the symbolism and "meme" that will represent itself in the minds of billions worldwide that may then grapple for a position in some of them over such a seemingly innocuous subliminal messaging? It's all very well to think ourselves not responsible whilst the poorly positioned people are welcome to their poorly informed mindsets, but what of their children and the populations who then suffer due the masses dominating a mythological society on everyone? Also what of the crime pack hounds who then prey on their vulnerabilities?

Just lately Virgins R.Branson came out against P.Hitchens stance on drug related crime. The debate is too simplistic a motion. We know how the drugs Executive Directors subvert, as a basic work ethic, and kill as mind-form interest on their investments, just as we know the (respected and secular) financial markets do the same upon the rank and file due government tax revenues always passing paying the price of their extravagances on down to the lowlier. We know how they function like an untouchable "Bankers drug-bonus" enterprise. Also we know the collateral damage of free access to drugs upon a large population likely will pose extra issues for ones it might not otherwise have reached. Nil legal sanction will not prevent chaotic addiction in certain quarters leading to other societal problems. It's true that alcohol has an often deadlier impact in some ways. But it's also the case that "early addictions" often are difficult to overcome and often enable further subversive enterprises upon the young and vulnerable.

So, what has secularism to say about how we best resolve and promote a "New society" without alienating the electorate so addicted to the old society and without the likely collateral damage of the innocents experiencing the changeover? It seems whatever way we move, someone is gonna have to pay the price, hard and terminal. This is what I see as humanities greatest hypocrisy. It claims to know respectability, but in reality always sucks at the breast of vice in order to afford itself the opportunity to employ any leverage at the expense of too many naive not to know why or what happened to their lives.

We who think we know how life ought to be really have no idea about how to make it so in everyones behalf. In this respect I have to ask myself what I am talking about. One of the few things that makes me sure I have anything at all to say is when I see those who have been saying how it should be lying so long and hard plus cheating out of general information, that the case against letting them continuing is long overdue. It's a poor mans outcome whatever the motion. The exploiters and cheats are likely waiting to fill any new gaps whatever is being represented. This is the greatest difficulty - how to keep out the nasty without resorting to their tricks in order to do so. It's almost impossible - as you see in the results that lead to wars. Someone else is always paying the price of these mind-forms that deceive and replicate advantage for themselves. And they forever rally to postpone yet another persons life from effecting any significant change and leverage that may afford them the necessary next steps.

In this respect, what is being served? The mare of misfortune?

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:42:20 UTC | #925360

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 7 by mordacious1

I enjoy listening to Sean so much that I'm willing to put up with having to listen to Mooney in order to hear him.

Will we have a much more secular America in my lifetime? Will the benefits that religion has, often without question, be eroded enough to make me comfortable in saying that I live in a secular society? I hope so and that hope rests in the fact that there are more non-religious young people (percentage of population) than there are non-religious old folk. If that trend persists, we will arrive at our destination mainly through attrition. But I don't want this. What I want is to force Democratic presidents to appoint non-religious secularists to SCOTUS. If we can do this, we can enforce the existing constitutional laws prohibiting certain religious opportunists from always getting their way.

Where I live, the only businesses that appear to be thriving are the churches. New buildings, new and larger parking lots, expensive productions to help with membership drives and all with out paying taxes.. As long as they are allowed to have a tax free existence, they will be hard to beat.

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:19:36 UTC | #925493

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 8 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator - preaching in contravention of Terms of Use

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:08:57 UTC | #926206

Sample's Avatar Comment 9 by Sample

There was never any intent to separate a belief in God and biblical principles when the constitution was drafted.

Can you elaborate? This thought is incomplete at best. What do you mean "separate a belief"?

Most countries have a government that is founded on some religious belief or system, good or bad, true or false.

Relevance? Group think? What are you implying?

I know that most people who are atheist and evolutionist obviously don't believe in a heaven or hell.

Not most, all.

Most think of God (Jesus) as some mythical being and the bible a collection of fairy tales with no truth or bearing on peoples lives.

Accurate, though the last assertion is wrong. It most certainly does have a bearing on lives. Hence, we have lots of problems in society that originate from myth.

I have heard Richard Dawkins and others make the statement, "prove that there is a God".

Wonderful.

There are two ways to prove that God exists. One is the fact that bad people are changed into loving people and that everywhere the gospel has been preached there have been multitudes of people at least believe in God for a short time and some who become lifelong followers. The second way is just as convincing. When everyone who is not a believer stands before God at judgement time and find themselves in torment in a hell that they didn't believe in previously, they will finally know the truth about God and the bible.

This is not proof of any gods. Do you know what reasonable evidence is? Do you know what confirmation bias is? Do you know what false correlations are?

I hope everyone who reads this will consider it carefully as it is the most important decision you will ever make.

I suspect you wrote this post because of a faith-command that you feel obliged to follow (proselytizing) rather than a genuine interest in the free exchange of ideas with people who respect carefully crafted positions about moral and ethical issues.

But welcome anyway.

Mike

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:32:50 UTC | #926218

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 10 by mirandaceleste

When everyone who is not a believer stands before God at judgement time and find themselves in torment in a hell that they didn't believe in previously, they will finally know the truth about God and the bible. Unfortunately at that point it will be too late to tell their friends and relatives of there gregarious mistake.

How right you are, my dear fellow! I know that when I end up in Hell, I'll be cursing myself for not having told my friends and relatives of my very, very "gregarious" mistake.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:12:53 UTC | #926223

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 11 by JHJEFFERY

Comment 8 by Jesuslover99

Welcome Newbie,

everything will come to pass just as it has been written in the bible.

So Jesus will come back during the lifetimes of those who heard him? Did someone forget to write that down?

Go look up Pascal's Wager.

And yes, it is always good to hear new and fresh ideas about the existence of God and the divinity of Jesus. Unfortunately, you don't have any.

When everyone who is not a believer stands before God at judgement time and find themselves in torment in a hell that they didn't believe in previously, they will finally know the truth about God and the bible.

This sentiment has always seemed a little sadistic to me. Kind of a "gotcha moment," when Christians laugh at all the unfortunate non-believers and scream, "I told you so!"

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:23:15 UTC | #926225

ZenDruid's Avatar Comment 12 by ZenDruid

Jesuslover99,

I'll see your pathetic little piece of emotional extortion, and raise you this deepity:

The monster under my bed was once very real, more real than your god could ever be. Then I realized I had a functional and competent moral conscience on my own, and poof it was gone.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:13:12 UTC | #926238

CdnMacAtheist's Avatar Comment 13 by CdnMacAtheist

I just finished the book (plus a free CD) I received yesterday from RDFRS US.

It is very good, well written and demonstrates what a true American Citizen should and can be like. The goals and plans are admirable and realistic, if the Secular Coalition can bring enough people, reason and finance to the table - and eventually attain a tipping-point in public perceptions.

If US politics continue in a better direction in this years Presidential elections, and those scary theocrats get soundly beaten, then the USA will rise back up in my own opinion, viewed nervously from Toronto.

There are many obstacles ahead, but the outlook has recently brightened on both sides of the Atlantic, thanks to great and productive efforts by Freethinkers of all kinds, especially RDFRS, for which I give many thanks. I hope the Reason Rally is a huge success for all involved - wish I could be there.

Peace, Think, Imagine.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:59:11 UTC | #926252

Quine's Avatar Comment 14 by Quine

Sean makes a very important point about being able to walk into the office of a U.S. representative with either a bag of contribution money, or an active email list of thousands of constituents who will take action, or both. The RCC bishops are having a letter read to their sheeple who are stuck in their pews, today, and the TV mega-church ministers can blather on and on over the airways. What can we do?

Yes, we are going to the Reason Rally, but then what? We need an organized political effort in the U.S. branch of RDFRS, our own web pages and email lists, and backed up with enough people willing to take action such that Sean can hold up his cell phone in that congressional office and announce that something significant will or won't happen if he pushes SEND.

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:07:19 UTC | #926254

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 15 by Schrodinger's Cat

Comment 8 by Jesuslover99

When everyone who is not a believer stands before God at judgement time and find themselves in torment in a hell that they didn't believe in previously, they will finally know the truth about God and the bible. Unfortunately at that point it will be too late to tell their friends and relatives of there gregarious mistake. Not believing in God, the gospel, heaven or hell will not change anything, everything will come to pass just as it has been written in the bible. I hope everyone who reads this will consider it carefully as it is the most important decision you will ever make.

Amazing how 'the most important decision anyone will ever make' comes complete with the least amount of substantive evidence anyone will ever receive !

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 23:34:56 UTC | #926290

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 16 by Tyler Durden

Comment 8 by Jesuslover99 :

When everyone who is not a believer stands before God at judgement time and find themselves in torment in a hell that they didn't believe in previously, they will finally know the truth about God and the bible. Unfortunately at that point it will be too late to tell their friends and relatives of there gregarious mistake. Not believing in God, the gospel, heaven or hell will not change anything, everything will come to pass just as it has been written in the bible. I hope everyone who reads this will consider it carefully as it is the most important decision you will ever make.

When reason fails, resort to idle threats. Stay classy.

Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here.

Mon, 12 Mar 2012 00:09:01 UTC | #926294

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 17 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator- preaching in contravention of Terms of Use

Mon, 12 Mar 2012 02:46:05 UTC | #926316

secondsoprano's Avatar Comment 18 by secondsoprano

don't think any amount of persuasion or dialog that I would post would or could change the minds of those who have already convinced themselves that there is no God.

On the contrary, we would be absolutely delighted to be persuaded, if anyone came up with any evidence at all. You haven't.

It is easier for a child to enter the Kingdom of God than an intellectual because their minds haven't been polluted by the ways of the world and the speculations and wisdom of man.

... because children, to a certain age, will believe anything they are told, and do not yet have the intellectual capacity to question the information they are given. Children also believe in santa claus and fairies and imaginary friends and monsters under the bed.

Then we grow up.

I only proclaim that Jesus is who He says that He is

Jesus, if he ever existed, is now dead. He "is" not who he says he is, because he doesn't exist, any more than Shakespeare or Julius Cesear or my grandmother. What evidence do you have otherwise?

Mon, 12 Mar 2012 05:27:50 UTC | #926327

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 19 by Schrodinger's Cat

Comment 17 by Jesuslover99

Oh dear.....Christian logic......

Atheist : " Why do you believe in the Bible ?"

Christian : " Because it's the word of God"

Atheist : " But who says it's the word of God ?"

Christian : " The Bible does "

Atheist : " Yes but as I asked before.......why do you believe in the Bible ?"

.......repeat loop ad nauseum.

Mon, 12 Mar 2012 05:50:31 UTC | #926330

Barbara Necker's Avatar Comment 20 by Barbara Necker

If there is a god, and if it actually pays attention to its creation, it must be laughing its head off at the inanity of us all. Perhaps creation is actually a play or movie some celestial Speilberg put together for the entertainment of his fellow Olympians. We won't know we've been in a play until the lights dim & final curtain comes down.

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 06:35:01 UTC | #948091

Barbara Necker's Avatar Comment 21 by Barbara Necker

By the way, Sean, I read your book & learned a lot -- namely that religion is even more pernicious than I thought.

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 06:41:51 UTC | #948093